Female Pilots - Unprofessional?
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Female Pilots - Unprofessional?
I am currently studying Aviation as a tertiary degree, where the course consists of practical as well as theoretical aspects. We are required to wear a uniform at all times while attending the Aviation Academy, where the practical is held.
As an aspiring female pilot myself, whenever I go to the academy, I always tie my hair up neatly, wear my tie and wear airport - friendly black shoes. However, what intrigues is how my fellow female students present themselves in their uniform; no ties, untied long hair and ballet flat shoes! This is very unprofessional, and not to mention, hair will get in the way during a windy preflight and a hindrance during flying! They also cover your epaulettes. Ballet shoes are also very unacceptable in my opinion in terms of professionalism.
It seems like none of them are taking aviation very seriously, dressing very sloppy for an aviator. In general, why do some female pilots (I saw some pictures on the internet) let their hair down and wear ballet shoes (are those shoes even safe)? I don't think aviation is a profession where you flaunt your feminity.
And I apologize for any grammatical or spelling errors; English is not my first language.
As an aspiring female pilot myself, whenever I go to the academy, I always tie my hair up neatly, wear my tie and wear airport - friendly black shoes. However, what intrigues is how my fellow female students present themselves in their uniform; no ties, untied long hair and ballet flat shoes! This is very unprofessional, and not to mention, hair will get in the way during a windy preflight and a hindrance during flying! They also cover your epaulettes. Ballet shoes are also very unacceptable in my opinion in terms of professionalism.
It seems like none of them are taking aviation very seriously, dressing very sloppy for an aviator. In general, why do some female pilots (I saw some pictures on the internet) let their hair down and wear ballet shoes (are those shoes even safe)? I don't think aviation is a profession where you flaunt your feminity.
And I apologize for any grammatical or spelling errors; English is not my first language.
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Ballet shoes? I'd like to see them get out in a fire!
I've always operated on the principle that you should always wear shoes you could walk home in!
And, of course, dressing neatly and tidily is simply respect for your fellow colleagues - whether you are male or female.
I've always operated on the principle that you should always wear shoes you could walk home in!
And, of course, dressing neatly and tidily is simply respect for your fellow colleagues - whether you are male or female.
I've no idea what your first language is, but your English is pretty good.
I'd argue that you've just seen a snapshot of what goes on throughout higher education. There will always be a proportion who just fail to engage with the professionalism of the subject they're trying to study.
When I was an undergraduate I can remember a few in the University Air Squadron who didn't take it seriously enough - and they didn't last.
When I was teaching on a university flight programme, we had a few who didn't engage properly - not turning up for flying, inappropriate clothing, one even who was clearly spending rather too much time stoned. Similarly on the engineering part of the programme, those who just studied to pass the exams (if that), and weren't really trying to become proficient in the subject.
Those of us / you who engage properly and try hard to act like professionals, usually will end up as professionals.
Those who don't, will either learn, or will end up working in non-aviation non-jobs.
Frankly, there's little value in worrying about them, as mostly they're only wasting their own time and money. Learn your version of professionalism from the people paid and qualified to train and educate you - and don't get dragged down by people who don't grasp it.
That said, you are students and you're not in front of fair paying passengers. A uniform alone certainly doesn't create a professional - and try and see past their informal dress codes to the real level of professionalism they're displaying.
You might just discover that one or two look unprofessional but are actually really professional in their behaviours, and vice-versa. Epaullettes matter much less than correct cockpit checks.
I'd argue that you've just seen a snapshot of what goes on throughout higher education. There will always be a proportion who just fail to engage with the professionalism of the subject they're trying to study.
When I was an undergraduate I can remember a few in the University Air Squadron who didn't take it seriously enough - and they didn't last.
When I was teaching on a university flight programme, we had a few who didn't engage properly - not turning up for flying, inappropriate clothing, one even who was clearly spending rather too much time stoned. Similarly on the engineering part of the programme, those who just studied to pass the exams (if that), and weren't really trying to become proficient in the subject.
Those of us / you who engage properly and try hard to act like professionals, usually will end up as professionals.
Those who don't, will either learn, or will end up working in non-aviation non-jobs.
Frankly, there's little value in worrying about them, as mostly they're only wasting their own time and money. Learn your version of professionalism from the people paid and qualified to train and educate you - and don't get dragged down by people who don't grasp it.
That said, you are students and you're not in front of fair paying passengers. A uniform alone certainly doesn't create a professional - and try and see past their informal dress codes to the real level of professionalism they're displaying.
You might just discover that one or two look unprofessional but are actually really professional in their behaviours, and vice-versa. Epaullettes matter much less than correct cockpit checks.
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Female Pilots - Unprofessional?
As students I don't think it's that big a deal. I've also learned over and over again that it's a huge mistake to judge someone's ability simply by appearance.
Some aviation sectors don't require that mindless drone attitude where it's an absolute necessity for each pilot to look like a carbon copy of each other.
Maybe in your opinion the aircraft is not the place to "flaunt" their femininity, but i hardly see how flat shoes and loose hair does that.
I think that it's ok to be whoever you want to be as long as you are professional, safe and hard working when it comes to flying and everything related to it.
Some aviation sectors don't require that mindless drone attitude where it's an absolute necessity for each pilot to look like a carbon copy of each other.
Maybe in your opinion the aircraft is not the place to "flaunt" their femininity, but i hardly see how flat shoes and loose hair does that.
I think that it's ok to be whoever you want to be as long as you are professional, safe and hard working when it comes to flying and everything related to it.
de minimus non curat lex
ALL STUDENTS
As a recently retired CAA Examiner use to say
" polished shoes leads to polished flying" , or words to that effect.
Bear in mind that the Head of Training will be writing final reports.
Think what your future employer wants to hear about you , or what might discourage them from employing you ?
Your appearance at interviews is one of the critical aspects to success.
Think about it........
" polished shoes leads to polished flying" , or words to that effect.
Bear in mind that the Head of Training will be writing final reports.
Think what your future employer wants to hear about you , or what might discourage them from employing you ?
Your appearance at interviews is one of the critical aspects to success.
Think about it........
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Female Pilots - Unprofessional?
"Retired" as in old fashioned? I'm sorry but anyone who truly believes something as superficial, simplistic and narrow minded as "polished shoes = polished flying" is not someone i'd like to fly with.
Appearance in interviews is a different matter. You are being judged, one amongst countless others and thus most employers will flush out anyone who isn't willing to put in the effort to try to impress.
You're right, it's important to think about what future employers might hear about you, but come on! They'd hardly turn you down because you wore flat shoes in flight school!!
Appearance in interviews is a different matter. You are being judged, one amongst countless others and thus most employers will flush out anyone who isn't willing to put in the effort to try to impress.
You're right, it's important to think about what future employers might hear about you, but come on! They'd hardly turn you down because you wore flat shoes in flight school!!
Last edited by funkydreadlocks; 19th Apr 2015 at 17:47.
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Pilot uniforms in Flight School?
Strange.
When I learned to fly it was shorts and t-shirts.
Nobody to impress, except on the day of the check ride, then we dressed a bit better.
How many stripes do you guys wear in Flight School?
First time I put on a uniform and stripes of any sort, had over 3000 hrs.
Most of it flown in bush Alaska, no stripes or uniform up there, had more important stuff to think about, like survival...
Does all flight schools have their students and instructors wear uniforms these days, or just a few?
Strange.
When I learned to fly it was shorts and t-shirts.
Nobody to impress, except on the day of the check ride, then we dressed a bit better.
How many stripes do you guys wear in Flight School?
First time I put on a uniform and stripes of any sort, had over 3000 hrs.
Most of it flown in bush Alaska, no stripes or uniform up there, had more important stuff to think about, like survival...
Does all flight schools have their students and instructors wear uniforms these days, or just a few?
de minimus non curat lex
Funky......
Retired on grounds of age, and able to take his pension.
The expression about shoes was said as a joke.........didn't understand the humour....
He was a gent to fly with.
I think you mean employers....and a HoT is unlikely to mention shoes unless they are unique !
Retired on grounds of age, and able to take his pension.
The expression about shoes was said as a joke.........didn't understand the humour....
He was a gent to fly with.
I think you mean employers....and a HoT is unlikely to mention shoes unless they are unique !
Last edited by parkfell; 19th Apr 2015 at 17:23. Reason: Syntax
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I thank everyone for contributing their two cents into this discussion. The university I am going to is UniSA, although I am not sure why they require uniforms for the practical aspect. I am not sure why it is also essential to wear a uniform as a student pilot, but I am complying to my university's rules. The maximum is 2 stripes on the epaulettes (CPL) while the minimum is none (RPL or under).
Loose hair and ballet flats do not give a reliable and good impression to employers. I know that I am nowhere near that stage, but learning to be professional and complying to dress standards may be beneficial in the future (especially cadetship interviews). If I was a commercial pilot, I would want my passengers to think that I am trustworthy and take my work seriously. Discipline is part of taking work seriously.
Our epaulettes have our university's name on it. Whenever I fly at Parafield, I always wanted to dress neatly and act formal as I want to preserve a good impression of the university.
Is there actually a reason not to tie their hair up, other than it being a fashion issue? Or are they too lazy or they cannot be bothered (this is a bad attribute). Aviation is, of course, not about fashion. We should displace the gender roles.
Loose hair and ballet flats do not give a reliable and good impression to employers. I know that I am nowhere near that stage, but learning to be professional and complying to dress standards may be beneficial in the future (especially cadetship interviews). If I was a commercial pilot, I would want my passengers to think that I am trustworthy and take my work seriously. Discipline is part of taking work seriously.
Our epaulettes have our university's name on it. Whenever I fly at Parafield, I always wanted to dress neatly and act formal as I want to preserve a good impression of the university.
Is there actually a reason not to tie their hair up, other than it being a fashion issue? Or are they too lazy or they cannot be bothered (this is a bad attribute). Aviation is, of course, not about fashion. We should displace the gender roles.
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I also don't get why flight attendants can't let their long hair down and wear ballet flats to work. And why all female pilots in airlines don't do that, except when posing for photos. And what about your typical professional doctors, lawyers and scientists?
We should displace the gender roles.
I understand the mentality behind the "polished shoes" comment. My flight school also required ties, though not epaulettes. I think they are trying to encourage a habit of discipline in all areas of life by requiring it in the area of appearance. Works for some people, not for others. During a long career in the cockpit you'll meet many immaculately groomed people who are terrible pilots, and vice versa. We all initially judge by appearances because we don't have any other data at first glance; just be aware that this judgment is not always correct.
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As a Chief Pilot, somebody who turns up neatly dressed, etc. shows a pride in themselves and is therefore less likely to have a self-esteem problem and therefore less likely to be bullied by passengers or management. It is also a fair indication that they will likely look after my aircraft a lot better. It doesn't mathher whether you are male, female or otherwise 
Bear in mind that the average first impression is made within 30 seconds.
Bear in mind that the average first impression is made within 30 seconds.
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I agree with Phil. If I was an airline pilot, I want to reinforce my authority and role upon the passengers. I want to show them I am confident in my role as a pilot and that I have self - reassurance. It is true that sloppy pilots may be more likely to be discriminated and bullied by passengers, which may lead to a decreased performance of the pilot output in flight. As a pilot, you need to be confident in your abilities to fly, and by complying to dress standards mean that you take those roles seriously.
By displacing gender roles, I did not mean that women should be men. I am stating aviation should be gender neutral instead of it being emphasized heavily as a masculine career and for female pilots to flaunt their feminine attributes to compensate for the lack of femininity.
By displacing gender roles, I did not mean that women should be men. I am stating aviation should be gender neutral instead of it being emphasized heavily as a masculine career and for female pilots to flaunt their feminine attributes to compensate for the lack of femininity.
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It all depends where you are and what role you want to play. Dressing and acting in uniform does not make a wise guy, but only the look of. If you want to make the dressed king or queen, you dress up well. If you are able to impress by personality, it does not matter how you look. If you are in formal environment, where dress rules over capabilities, you dress well. If you are in an environment, where skills and guts count more then jacket, trouser, shoes - you dress up comfortably for you. Uniform and formal dress in an airliner only fool ordinary pax. Whatever you do, keep in mind that dress says nothing about professional or not. It's just a cover.
Just to add a story, one of my best friends loves to fly barefoot, wears old shabby baggy short khaki trouser in cockpit and she is one of the most professional pilots I know.
Just to add a story, one of my best friends loves to fly barefoot, wears old shabby baggy short khaki trouser in cockpit and she is one of the most professional pilots I know.
de minimus non curat lex
Dress Code
The employer is very likely to be prescriptive as to the dress code.
As an apprentice learning your trade, it is advisable to keep ones head down, get on with the flying, and go with the flow.
The dress code for the flight deck is not necessarily the same as for the cabin.
It is not a fashion parade............
As an apprentice learning your trade, it is advisable to keep ones head down, get on with the flying, and go with the flow.
The dress code for the flight deck is not necessarily the same as for the cabin.
It is not a fashion parade............
I'd love to agree with you - as this is my personal philosophy most of the time.
The reality is quite different to be honest. I work across various fields, and in particular know world leading scientists who would never be seen dressed smartly, and superb pilots who are rarely seen in anything but jeans and a t-shirt. (Not to mention a few very smartly dressed people who were very poor at their jobs.)
They aren't the same. I choose to dress smartly and appropriately for the environment I'm in, but I've learned not to judge other people by my own standards on that point.
The reality is quite different to be honest. I work across various fields, and in particular know world leading scientists who would never be seen dressed smartly, and superb pilots who are rarely seen in anything but jeans and a t-shirt. (Not to mention a few very smartly dressed people who were very poor at their jobs.)
They aren't the same. I choose to dress smartly and appropriately for the environment I'm in, but I've learned not to judge other people by my own standards on that point.
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Uniform on the job is of course just something one has to do, same as wearing business attire during the application process. Of course with the bad form fitting and quality of the stuff the company gives us i can't be bothered to go beyond the minimum required by the uniform manual.
During flightschool i couldn't have cared less. Went to a flightschool of one of the major legacy airlines in europe and there was no school uniform so we usually flew in sneakers, shorts and t-shirts. It was darn hot in arizona during the summer after all. Of course, many of us, including myself, initially bought the airlines flight suit and wore that during flying. I stopped doing that after i had an unplanned layover in palm springs due to the aircraft being AOG. Having nothing to wear except that weird jumpsuit was kinda bad during that evening, never wore that thing again
.
During flightschool i couldn't have cared less. Went to a flightschool of one of the major legacy airlines in europe and there was no school uniform so we usually flew in sneakers, shorts and t-shirts. It was darn hot in arizona during the summer after all. Of course, many of us, including myself, initially bought the airlines flight suit and wore that during flying. I stopped doing that after i had an unplanned layover in palm springs due to the aircraft being AOG. Having nothing to wear except that weird jumpsuit was kinda bad during that evening, never wore that thing again
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Sounds as though you may have attended ATCA-GYR? If so, they have a uniform now although not quite as prescriptive as the more commercial schools nearby. My view is that if you aspire to employment as an airline pilot (in Europe certainly) you will have to wear a company uniform. You will be judged as to how you wear that uniform, believe me, and if you are unused to wearing a belt to keep your trousers up, putting on a tie (albeit a clip-on) at 0300 in semi-darkness whilst trying not to wake your partner prior to an early report, keeping your (non-ballet pumps (and I've seen the girls wearing these many times but some of the shoes the blokes wear aren't much better)) shoes clean, and reasonably polished, pushing your epaulets onto their straps the right way around and not-clipping your name badge and tie-clip on upside down (even if it does resemble the Nike flash), you will stand out. As said, you will be judged long before you have a chance to demonstrate your superior technical knowledge or supreme flying ability whether at interview, base/line training or on the job (so to speak). Airlines do not employ branding managers and consultants for their customer facing staff (all airline jobs are effectively customer facing even if your interaction is limited to flying them to their destination and communicating via a P.A.) to not wear the uniform the company has provided you with (even at Easy & RYR) to act as an ambassador for your employer in the promotion of safety, integrity, standards and revenue generation. There are expectations that actually go beyond professionalism if you work as an airline pilot and if it is required that a uniform be worn during training, there will be a good reason for this - perhaps consider wearing it properly as an integral part of your primary training that will set you in good stead for the rest of your career in more ways than one.
And by the way, it's not just the girls that let themselves down.
Good Luck - you sound like you've got the right attitude (unless your a troll of course?).
And by the way, it's not just the girls that let themselves down.
Good Luck - you sound like you've got the right attitude (unless your a troll of course?).