Re-validating expired ATPL Theory exams
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Joined: Jun 2010
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From: newton abbot
Re-validating expired ATPL Theory exams
Hi everyone,
I did my ATPL theory exams with Bristol ground school over 10 years ago (Highly recommend them by the way). I passed them all really well (94% average) and then went on to do an FAA CPL/IR then converted at Airways in Exeter to JAA.
I guess it's obvious that flying didn't work out for me, but it's a long story and I'm not here to bore you.
The question I have is regarding the ground exams, I realise that they have long expired and was hoping that somebody could let me know the best way of re-validating them?
Thank you for any information you can give!!
I did my ATPL theory exams with Bristol ground school over 10 years ago (Highly recommend them by the way). I passed them all really well (94% average) and then went on to do an FAA CPL/IR then converted at Airways in Exeter to JAA.
I guess it's obvious that flying didn't work out for me, but it's a long story and I'm not here to bore you.
The question I have is regarding the ground exams, I realise that they have long expired and was hoping that somebody could let me know the best way of re-validating them?
Thank you for any information you can give!!
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: c
hi chris ,
good question , i am in the same situation , my atpl exams expiring next month .
i converted my uk jaa cpl to an easa cpl last year without any problems and its valid for life now so its says , but once my atpl exams expire i asume my cpl exams will expire, so a bit confused , will be interested to hear peoples replies.
cheers
good question , i am in the same situation , my atpl exams expiring next month .
i converted my uk jaa cpl to an easa cpl last year without any problems and its valid for life now so its says , but once my atpl exams expire i asume my cpl exams will expire, so a bit confused , will be interested to hear peoples replies.
cheers
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2010
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From: newton abbot
Hi, thanks for the replies so far, I have the feeling I will need to resit the whole lot! Would be nice to hear if anyone has ever had a similar situation. Hopefully Macflea, you will be in a better position than me and not need to re-sit the whole lot?
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
Joined: Jun 2012
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From: South somewhere
According to Air Law, an ATPL(A) never expires, it is valid for life. All that expires are Medicals, Type ratings, IR's, ME rating etc. I would contact the CAA licensing department if I were you. You may just need to revalidate the flying side to refresh currency. I believe the FTO that you do it with will do an assessment and advise on what is required.
Joined: Oct 2010
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From: UK
ATPL exams use to valid for 7 years from the date of expiry of your most recent IR rating...
So for someone with a JAR CPL and IR (A) who flew using a FAA IR for example (and let their JAR IR expire) their exams would be kept valid by this ICAO IR even though it wasn't JAR.
Provided you actually had a JAR CPL & IR issued, the exams expiring wouldn't require you to do anything to renew the CPL as such, as that licence was issued. You'd have needed to renew the IR exams to at least get that up and running again, and if you wanted to get the ATPL eventually it made sense to just redo them all.
The problem you have though of course is you sat JAR exams, and now it's all EASA- so all what I've said above might be totally useless
So for someone with a JAR CPL and IR (A) who flew using a FAA IR for example (and let their JAR IR expire) their exams would be kept valid by this ICAO IR even though it wasn't JAR.
Provided you actually had a JAR CPL & IR issued, the exams expiring wouldn't require you to do anything to renew the CPL as such, as that licence was issued. You'd have needed to renew the IR exams to at least get that up and running again, and if you wanted to get the ATPL eventually it made sense to just redo them all.
The problem you have though of course is you sat JAR exams, and now it's all EASA- so all what I've said above might be totally useless
Joined: Apr 1999
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From: The frozen north....
It used to be the following case under JAR when your ATPL credits expired after 3 years:
No CPL or IR = all 14 credits lost
CPL held, no IR = 13 credits lost (VFR comms granted)
CPL and IR = ATPL credits remain valid for 7 years from your last IR renewal
If you held a CPL, you could however just do the IR exams to then gain a CPL/IR however its NOT a FzATPL so no multi crew types allowed. You would still need to redo the CPL exams (minus VFR comms) to get a Full FzATPL.
Crazy crazy stuff but I've no idea if its changed since EASA....would be interested to hear...
No CPL or IR = all 14 credits lost
CPL held, no IR = 13 credits lost (VFR comms granted)
CPL and IR = ATPL credits remain valid for 7 years from your last IR renewal
If you held a CPL, you could however just do the IR exams to then gain a CPL/IR however its NOT a FzATPL so no multi crew types allowed. You would still need to redo the CPL exams (minus VFR comms) to get a Full FzATPL.
Crazy crazy stuff but I've no idea if its changed since EASA....would be interested to hear...
Joined: Jun 2009
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From: Fort Pierce, FL/USA
So are you saying that someone with
1. FAA CPL & IR
2. NO EASA CPL & IR
3. EASA ATPL theory
Can actually use the FAA/ICAO licenses to keep the EASA theory alive?
If so, do you have a reference to the regulation stating this?
1. FAA CPL & IR
2. NO EASA CPL & IR
3. EASA ATPL theory
Can actually use the FAA/ICAO licenses to keep the EASA theory alive?
If so, do you have a reference to the regulation stating this?
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Anything relating to that would be in CAP 804.
FCL.025:
(2) The completion of the airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) theoretical
knowledge examinations will remain valid for the issue of an ATPL for a
period of 7 years from the last validity date of:
(i) an IR entered in the licence; or
(ii) in the case of helicopters, a helicopter’s type rating entered in that
licence.
The implication is the EASA licence. But the type rating can be on anything by the look of it.
FCL.025:
(2) The completion of the airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) theoretical
knowledge examinations will remain valid for the issue of an ATPL for a
period of 7 years from the last validity date of:
(i) an IR entered in the licence; or
(ii) in the case of helicopters, a helicopter’s type rating entered in that
licence.
The implication is the EASA licence. But the type rating can be on anything by the look of it.
Joined: Apr 1999
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From: The frozen north....
What I could never get my head around was the fact you could be flying merrily with a CPL doing say instructing work having never got your IR but as far as JAR were concerned (and I assume EASA) you've lost all your commercial theory credits if you then decide you want a FzATPL, however not if you just want a CPL/IR.
You already hold a valid CPL so why on earth do you need to do the CPL exams all over again in one case but not the other!?!?
You already hold a valid CPL so why on earth do you need to do the CPL exams all over again in one case but not the other!?!?
Joined: Apr 2015
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From: Blighty & Germania.
What about the frozen ATPL ??
Does the 7 year limit apply if you were issued with a CAA SCPL/IR (S for senior) after passing the ATPL exams ????
When I got that license, I thought there was no time limit, but the regs might have changed.
I held a CAA SCPL/IR/Multi QFI, but went off the the USA to fly using just a basic CPL. I'm now looking at what is required to get either an EASA ATPL or an FAA ATP.
When I got that license, I thought there was no time limit, but the regs might have changed.
I held a CAA SCPL/IR/Multi QFI, but went off the the USA to fly using just a basic CPL. I'm now looking at what is required to get either an EASA ATPL or an FAA ATP.
de minimus non curat lex
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From: sunny troon
The last CAA SCPL would have been issued in December 1989. The CAA then gave you 5 years to achieve the necessary hours for a UK ATPL.
The SCPL ceased to be valid in December 1994.
By that date you needed to apply for a UK ATPL or CPL.
So unless you kept a UK licence valid, I suspect you are in a spot of bother.
Head back in the books with Bristol...........
The SCPL ceased to be valid in December 1994.
By that date you needed to apply for a UK ATPL or CPL.
So unless you kept a UK licence valid, I suspect you are in a spot of bother.
Head back in the books with Bristol...........
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From: Delsey
I held a CAA SCPL/IR/Multi QFI, but went off the the USA to fly using just a basic CPL. I'm now looking at what is required to get either an EASA ATPL or an FAA ATP
If you still have a current FAA CPL certificate (assuming you do, even LTA-Airship) and have 2000 hours fixed wing (as you say you do) why not look at the FAA route? You will sadly now come unstuck with the new FAA ruling on ATP courses though.
A call to the CAA would however be my first port of call. Is B H (was head of Airship and Heli flight standards) still there? He was my FOI when I flew Airships. He may be a good first point of contact.
I fear the UK EASA route for you may be very long winded. Good luck.
Joined: Apr 2015
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From: Blighty & Germania.
Thanks for that info and it does seem that the best route would be to sign up for the new approved ATP course in the US. I do have a current FAA CPL (LTA), so I'm more used to flying in the US.
Not wishing to hijack this thread, but what type of IR is required for an FAA ATP (single or twin) to be issued and can it be done in an approved simulator ??
The other question I have is about the 3rd pilot that some cargo airlines use, so can some useful chap or chapess, confirm that if you work as a 3rd pilot, there is no requirement for a type rating ??
Not wishing to hijack this thread, but what type of IR is required for an FAA ATP (single or twin) to be issued and can it be done in an approved simulator ??
The other question I have is about the 3rd pilot that some cargo airlines use, so can some useful chap or chapess, confirm that if you work as a 3rd pilot, there is no requirement for a type rating ??
Joined: Apr 2015
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From: Blighty & Germania.
OK, so I survived the FAA class 1 medical with the Stuttgart medical center (They are under government review due to the Germanwings loss, so things are not easy there at present) and I've decided to start with an attempt at getting an FAA ATP first.
I'm presently looking to book the one week CTP course with CAE in Dallas, BUT will need to use another flight school for the actual flight tests.
Main question at present is, which on-line study courses is best ?
I've ordered a book from Sporties, but would also like to sign up for one of the on-line courses to use once I go cross eyed reading.
I'm presently looking to book the one week CTP course with CAE in Dallas, BUT will need to use another flight school for the actual flight tests.
Main question at present is, which on-line study courses is best ?
I've ordered a book from Sporties, but would also like to sign up for one of the on-line courses to use once I go cross eyed reading.