Replys to C.V's
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Joined: Dec 1997
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,929
Likes: 6
From: Suffolk UK
Single-sided single-page CVs only, please! As Daifly suggests earlier, nothing more will get read. If, after 25 years in aviation, I can get the salient points of my career on to a single side - so can you!
The important thing is that only the information that the potential employer needs to be sure you fit his requirements is presented on the CV. Anything else is extraneous, although you might feel it's worth bringing up at interview - if it's relevant. Remember, he doesn't need your life story. He only needs to know enough to make it worth him asking you more at interview.
For instance, so what if you have type-ratings on 35 light piston aircraft and have flown from 120 different light-aircraft fields? If you're applying to a company that operates 737s out of 3000m fields, these facts are hardly relevant, are they!? Having said that, note that it takes just one line to say:
'rated on 25 GA types, flown from 120 European airfields'.
Your employment history should really only show those things, again, that are relevant to your potential employer. It's of no interest to him that in 1988 you ran a software development team of 25 people, whose every need was your task to satisfy. A simple '1943-1997 various management posts in Computer Industry' will suffice. Hard on you - I know you deeply want EasyJet or Ryanair (or whoever) to know every detail of your success in developing graphics sub-routines for Acme Software, but the Chief Pilot of these airlines doesn't give a !!!!!. He isn't looking for software engineers! He wants to know that you have an ATPL, the right number of hours, a current IR, you've flown in the last six months, and you can start yesterday - and how to get hold of you to tell you.
If, on the other hand, you have a 25-year history of flying various still-current jet types for other organisations, it's relevant and should be included - but only in the broadest terms. Such as:
1977-81. RAF. Various types. 1500 hours.
1981-88. Laker Airways. DC10 f/o & capt. 4000 hrs.
1988-90. Dan Air. BAC111 f/0. 1000 hours.
1991-92. Air Europe. B737-100/200 f/o & capt. 1000 hours.
1993-2001. Virgin Atlantic. B747-200/400 f/o & capt. 6800 hours.
Keep it brief, keep it relevant. Make an impact with only the essential facts.
The important thing is that only the information that the potential employer needs to be sure you fit his requirements is presented on the CV. Anything else is extraneous, although you might feel it's worth bringing up at interview - if it's relevant. Remember, he doesn't need your life story. He only needs to know enough to make it worth him asking you more at interview.
For instance, so what if you have type-ratings on 35 light piston aircraft and have flown from 120 different light-aircraft fields? If you're applying to a company that operates 737s out of 3000m fields, these facts are hardly relevant, are they!? Having said that, note that it takes just one line to say:
'rated on 25 GA types, flown from 120 European airfields'.
Your employment history should really only show those things, again, that are relevant to your potential employer. It's of no interest to him that in 1988 you ran a software development team of 25 people, whose every need was your task to satisfy. A simple '1943-1997 various management posts in Computer Industry' will suffice. Hard on you - I know you deeply want EasyJet or Ryanair (or whoever) to know every detail of your success in developing graphics sub-routines for Acme Software, but the Chief Pilot of these airlines doesn't give a !!!!!. He isn't looking for software engineers! He wants to know that you have an ATPL, the right number of hours, a current IR, you've flown in the last six months, and you can start yesterday - and how to get hold of you to tell you.
If, on the other hand, you have a 25-year history of flying various still-current jet types for other organisations, it's relevant and should be included - but only in the broadest terms. Such as:
1977-81. RAF. Various types. 1500 hours.
1981-88. Laker Airways. DC10 f/o & capt. 4000 hrs.
1988-90. Dan Air. BAC111 f/0. 1000 hours.
1991-92. Air Europe. B737-100/200 f/o & capt. 1000 hours.
1993-2001. Virgin Atlantic. B747-200/400 f/o & capt. 6800 hours.
Keep it brief, keep it relevant. Make an impact with only the essential facts.
Last edited by scroggs; 29th May 2002 at 18:53.
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 424
Likes: 0
From: UK
Aha. Cheers scroggs....so MAKE it 1 page A4, 1 side ONLY - and be harsh on ourselves - stick strictly to the relevent....
So Given that I have the correct pieces of paper, are the airlines interested in where I did my training?
I also assume thereforethat college/school from 13 years ago is also irrelevent?
...and interests etc should be just plain axed yes?
In terms of hours - what sort of breakdown is being looked for...TT, ME, PIC, Night, Instrument, instructing? Less? More? Hours - suppose only light a/c time and ignore the M/L and simulator time? yes?
OK and now the biggy - and you can be brief I dont wanna hog much of peeps time here...what 'something' is it that people look for which gets you to asked to interview? I mean - what can I do to improve my chances - I mean lets face it - 1000's of us all waiting in the wings as instructors etc just waiting for the call - what makes any one of us different? What would attract the call? I cant accumulate any more ratings!!!!! (Well by the end of the summer I cant....CAA dont offer enough!!)
TIA for the *extremely* useful comments
FF
So Given that I have the correct pieces of paper, are the airlines interested in where I did my training?
I also assume thereforethat college/school from 13 years ago is also irrelevent?
...and interests etc should be just plain axed yes?
In terms of hours - what sort of breakdown is being looked for...TT, ME, PIC, Night, Instrument, instructing? Less? More? Hours - suppose only light a/c time and ignore the M/L and simulator time? yes?
OK and now the biggy - and you can be brief I dont wanna hog much of peeps time here...what 'something' is it that people look for which gets you to asked to interview? I mean - what can I do to improve my chances - I mean lets face it - 1000's of us all waiting in the wings as instructors etc just waiting for the call - what makes any one of us different? What would attract the call? I cant accumulate any more ratings!!!!! (Well by the end of the summer I cant....CAA dont offer enough!!)
TIA for the *extremely* useful comments
FF
Last edited by FormationFlyer; 29th May 2002 at 19:16.
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 594
Likes: 4
From: New Zealand
Hi Guys, Agree with what Dai and Scroggs say. It is a pain having to delve through the niff naff. I used to write back to all but after aboout 200 it loses its sense of need. Make sure all the pertinant facts are there including age and if you send by email tick the box for the recpient to acknowledge receipt of said CV, they have to tick one of the boxes, at least you know they have got it. Remember short sweet and to the point, some poor ****** has to sort through them all and put the relevant details onto a data base. Hope it helps and Scroggs don't believe ya on all them dates and types I was with you later than that!!!!Only joking keep up the help for the guys.
Moderator
Joined: Dec 1997
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,929
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From: Suffolk UK
Fergie - wasn't supposed to be my CV! Mine, of course, would be far more impressive. Not!
FF. Ah - now the difficult ones! Basically, it's a bit of a numbers game. You've got to ensure, firstly, that your CV doesn't get binned because it's the wrong size, shape, colour, smell or whatever. Having passed that first filter, you need to actually fit the requirements of your targetted employer. If you don't have the hours, licence, availability or whatever, you're out. If you haven't included contact details (it happens!), you ain't going nowhere!
Once these filters have been applied, you must by definition fit the requirements of the airline. However, you may not fit as well as other applicants - those who've perhaps got ratings and hours on that airline's types. Whether you get an interview (or even a third CV reading) will depend on how many posts are up for grabs, and how many qualified CVs remain. There's an apocryphal story that a Chief Pilot, faced with a pile of hundreds of acceptable CVs for only a few jobs, picked up the majority of the pile and filed it in the bin, saying 'We don't need unlucky pilots'. It can be that arbitrary!
Where you did your training isn't really very relevant as long as you have the licence, but if you've just graduated you need to fill up that side of A4 somehow! Same for interests; if yours coincide with your potential interviewer's, they may help. If it happens that he hates your hobby of lepidoptery, it wasn't a good idea to have told him!
As for hours, this will very much depend on your level of experience and the requirements of your target employer. If you have lots of hours, quals and types, you may well find your CV gets binned if it looks like an Excel spreadsheet full of figures. On the other hand, if you only have 250 hours you are going to have to prove what you did with them! Remember, you will be asked to produce your logbooks if you're asked to interview - that's the time to discuss the more esoteric and interesting facets of your flying career. Again, to get that interview you must show you meet their requirements - no more, no less.
As for your 'biggie', I have to say that luck plays a very large part when the numbers are against you. The thing that may well play most in your favour, given that all other things are satisfied, is that someone in the airline can recommend you to the bod doing the choosing. Many airlines use this as one of their primary selection criteria! Obviously, the larger the airline, the less this technique can be employed, but, as in all things, who you know can be very important.......
FF. Ah - now the difficult ones! Basically, it's a bit of a numbers game. You've got to ensure, firstly, that your CV doesn't get binned because it's the wrong size, shape, colour, smell or whatever. Having passed that first filter, you need to actually fit the requirements of your targetted employer. If you don't have the hours, licence, availability or whatever, you're out. If you haven't included contact details (it happens!), you ain't going nowhere!
Once these filters have been applied, you must by definition fit the requirements of the airline. However, you may not fit as well as other applicants - those who've perhaps got ratings and hours on that airline's types. Whether you get an interview (or even a third CV reading) will depend on how many posts are up for grabs, and how many qualified CVs remain. There's an apocryphal story that a Chief Pilot, faced with a pile of hundreds of acceptable CVs for only a few jobs, picked up the majority of the pile and filed it in the bin, saying 'We don't need unlucky pilots'. It can be that arbitrary!
Where you did your training isn't really very relevant as long as you have the licence, but if you've just graduated you need to fill up that side of A4 somehow! Same for interests; if yours coincide with your potential interviewer's, they may help. If it happens that he hates your hobby of lepidoptery, it wasn't a good idea to have told him!
As for hours, this will very much depend on your level of experience and the requirements of your target employer. If you have lots of hours, quals and types, you may well find your CV gets binned if it looks like an Excel spreadsheet full of figures. On the other hand, if you only have 250 hours you are going to have to prove what you did with them! Remember, you will be asked to produce your logbooks if you're asked to interview - that's the time to discuss the more esoteric and interesting facets of your flying career. Again, to get that interview you must show you meet their requirements - no more, no less.
As for your 'biggie', I have to say that luck plays a very large part when the numbers are against you. The thing that may well play most in your favour, given that all other things are satisfied, is that someone in the airline can recommend you to the bod doing the choosing. Many airlines use this as one of their primary selection criteria! Obviously, the larger the airline, the less this technique can be employed, but, as in all things, who you know can be very important.......
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
From: UK
Scroggs
Some good info and thanks for your time. My CV a year ago (before applying for flying jobs) started at two pages but after a session with the chaps at the BALPA Employment Conference its now whittled down to one as you rightly suggest; hasn't got me an interview yet but then unless you're type rated or bloody lucky I don't think anyone will for a few months. BALPA's Airwaves was a bit more upbeat this month so fingers crossed.
Some good info and thanks for your time. My CV a year ago (before applying for flying jobs) started at two pages but after a session with the chaps at the BALPA Employment Conference its now whittled down to one as you rightly suggest; hasn't got me an interview yet but then unless you're type rated or bloody lucky I don't think anyone will for a few months. BALPA's Airwaves was a bit more upbeat this month so fingers crossed.
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Joined: Dec 1997
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,929
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From: Suffolk UK
Forgot to mention this: it is relevant to include things like instructor ratings. You don't need to go into detail, but it may make the difference between you and the next guy! Of course, if you were employed as an instructor (or did it part-time) it should be covered in your precis of your career.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Haven't had time to dig around my e-mail today and find some bad examples, I will get chance after the Bank Holiday.
I'm glad that this thread is being found to be helpful, after all, it's helping both you and us if we can make the process quicker for everyone.
I received an e-mail today and it asked a good question, so I'll repost the answer here. Sending your CV by e-mail makes no difference to your position in the pile. We obviously have to be fair with everyone so you'll go into the pile on an "as received" basis. The only difference is that I can attach notes to the CV and then file it in place, rather than have to keep it in a foolscap file.
Recruitment is very much my second role. Principally I occupy a strategic role, so my time is pretty scarce (NB not valuable!!). As a result when I walk in in the morning I get two piles of post, one which is general and one which is just CVs. I spend, at most, 20 minutes going through the CV pile - as I said before, with 20+ CVs a day, that's 1 minute per CV. Even the slowest mathematically amongst you will realise that it aint long! I need to know within 30 seconds the important information:
Covering Letter:
i) What you want/are looking for.
ii) If you're low on hours, where you trained (as Scroggs said). If you're not low on hours, you can say quickly what you're currently doing and why you want to leave (important).
CV:
i) Who you are.
ii) Where you are.
iii) Licence-wise, where you are, including IR.
iv) Type ratings, on pertinent types. (This is starting to repeat Scroggs a bit now - his post on how to display types was spot on).
v) Education and Work History.
And that's it.
I staple covering letter onto CV (if you've not done it) and write on the space you've kindly left me on the letter what level you're at and subdivide them into two piles:
i) File, and (I'm sorry!)
ii) No's.
On average one CV will get through to file on a daily basis. You can now see why I simply don't have the time to reply.
But still, knowing people makes all the difference..... I see CVs from people who I've met and I will spend more time on them and, may, keep them on file where I usually wouldn't have. However, I am also a tremendous judge of character and can spot a friendly approach from a job hunt at 4 miles on the ILS... It's so easy to say hello to people and get talking, I'm so surprised that no-one believes me! CRM after all, you have to know how to communicate!
Carry on posting your questions, I'm starting to feel important!
(Sorry, spelling).
I'm glad that this thread is being found to be helpful, after all, it's helping both you and us if we can make the process quicker for everyone.
I received an e-mail today and it asked a good question, so I'll repost the answer here. Sending your CV by e-mail makes no difference to your position in the pile. We obviously have to be fair with everyone so you'll go into the pile on an "as received" basis. The only difference is that I can attach notes to the CV and then file it in place, rather than have to keep it in a foolscap file.
Recruitment is very much my second role. Principally I occupy a strategic role, so my time is pretty scarce (NB not valuable!!). As a result when I walk in in the morning I get two piles of post, one which is general and one which is just CVs. I spend, at most, 20 minutes going through the CV pile - as I said before, with 20+ CVs a day, that's 1 minute per CV. Even the slowest mathematically amongst you will realise that it aint long! I need to know within 30 seconds the important information:
Covering Letter:
i) What you want/are looking for.
ii) If you're low on hours, where you trained (as Scroggs said). If you're not low on hours, you can say quickly what you're currently doing and why you want to leave (important).
CV:
i) Who you are.
ii) Where you are.
iii) Licence-wise, where you are, including IR.
iv) Type ratings, on pertinent types. (This is starting to repeat Scroggs a bit now - his post on how to display types was spot on).
v) Education and Work History.
And that's it.
I staple covering letter onto CV (if you've not done it) and write on the space you've kindly left me on the letter what level you're at and subdivide them into two piles:
i) File, and (I'm sorry!)
ii) No's.
On average one CV will get through to file on a daily basis. You can now see why I simply don't have the time to reply.
But still, knowing people makes all the difference..... I see CVs from people who I've met and I will spend more time on them and, may, keep them on file where I usually wouldn't have. However, I am also a tremendous judge of character and can spot a friendly approach from a job hunt at 4 miles on the ILS... It's so easy to say hello to people and get talking, I'm so surprised that no-one believes me! CRM after all, you have to know how to communicate!
Carry on posting your questions, I'm starting to feel important!
(Sorry, spelling).
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 424
Likes: 0
From: UK
Daifly - Again another helpful post - thanks once again....now all I need is the IPA to list all your e-mail addresses!!! (and no I dont blanket bomb/mail merge - I dont like that approach and never will - if I apply to an airline its because I *want* to work for them rather want *any* job).
Re: hours breakdown...I have some hours which are Mircolight (approx 55hrs). Now up to 100 ML hours are valid towards ATPL issue...should I include these hours in my TT (as per CAA definition of TT) or forget them...perhaps adding a note of the hours...
and what about sim hours - I have 50 hours CAA approved FNPT1/2.....do you want to see a note of these?
(yes Im fairly low hours - about 600TT)
TIA
FF
Re: hours breakdown...I have some hours which are Mircolight (approx 55hrs). Now up to 100 ML hours are valid towards ATPL issue...should I include these hours in my TT (as per CAA definition of TT) or forget them...perhaps adding a note of the hours...
and what about sim hours - I have 50 hours CAA approved FNPT1/2.....do you want to see a note of these?
(yes Im fairly low hours - about 600TT)
TIA
FF
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 896
Likes: 0
From: US
Excellent thread. As an employer I would like to throw my 10 Euro in.
Daifly, as do other employers, has some excellent advice. Applicants read his post ten times.
I totally agree with only sending in a one page CV and a "cover letter." If you desire to learn if your CV was received, if you use Outlook express or Outlook, ask for a receipt. I will gladly send you one. It is not possible to personally respond to every CV, however doing the above will at least assure you that it was received. I do read every one.
Climbto350 and AEPS use similar tools to generate "enrollment forms" or similar e-mails. This requires that the employer then download your resume. Sorry, personally I do not have the time to do your work for you. Send in your CV/Cover letter as an attachment.
I recently advertised for an FO (P-2) position, and received approximately 350 replies. The advertisements were very specific on the minimum requirements to apply. Approximately 200 were not even close. I.E. require 1500 hours TT, and receive CV's indicating 200 hours TT, or require a ME rating and receive single engine rated resumes.
I know this is argumentative, but if you are not even in the ballpark, well, it is your Euro, IMHO.
Additionally, the advertisement stated clearly, if sent by e-mail, attach your resume as Word Perfect or Microsoft Word. There was a reason for this. This is the only word processing software we possess. I received CV's in three other formats. They were deleted, as essentially I did not receive anything. Why would we want to hire someone who can not follow simple instructions.
Remember the expression "first impressions?"
Daifly, as do other employers, has some excellent advice. Applicants read his post ten times.
I totally agree with only sending in a one page CV and a "cover letter." If you desire to learn if your CV was received, if you use Outlook express or Outlook, ask for a receipt. I will gladly send you one. It is not possible to personally respond to every CV, however doing the above will at least assure you that it was received. I do read every one.
Climbto350 and AEPS use similar tools to generate "enrollment forms" or similar e-mails. This requires that the employer then download your resume. Sorry, personally I do not have the time to do your work for you. Send in your CV/Cover letter as an attachment.
I recently advertised for an FO (P-2) position, and received approximately 350 replies. The advertisements were very specific on the minimum requirements to apply. Approximately 200 were not even close. I.E. require 1500 hours TT, and receive CV's indicating 200 hours TT, or require a ME rating and receive single engine rated resumes.
I know this is argumentative, but if you are not even in the ballpark, well, it is your Euro, IMHO.
Additionally, the advertisement stated clearly, if sent by e-mail, attach your resume as Word Perfect or Microsoft Word. There was a reason for this. This is the only word processing software we possess. I received CV's in three other formats. They were deleted, as essentially I did not receive anything. Why would we want to hire someone who can not follow simple instructions.
Remember the expression "first impressions?"
Guest
Posts: n/a
Daifly,
"Sending your CV by e-mail makes no difference to your position in the pile. The only difference is that I can attach notes to the CV and then file it in place, rather than have to keep it in a foolscap file. "
Do you mean that you attach the notes onto an email version, as oposed to a paper copy? (Sorry to be so thick).
Is a CV more likely to be lost in the mass of others in a computer list, as opposed to a hard copy version of the list?
Thanks for your input- most helpful!
"Sending your CV by e-mail makes no difference to your position in the pile. The only difference is that I can attach notes to the CV and then file it in place, rather than have to keep it in a foolscap file. "
Do you mean that you attach the notes onto an email version, as oposed to a paper copy? (Sorry to be so thick).
Is a CV more likely to be lost in the mass of others in a computer list, as opposed to a hard copy version of the list?
Thanks for your input- most helpful!
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 424
Likes: 0
From: UK
Check 6 - cheers for the tips...
Can I make a request?...as an employer requesting CVs in specific word processor formats can you also add the version of the software you are using...i.e. the maximum version of the file you can read.
You see each new version of MS Word uses a new format...if you only have Word 6 and I produce my CV under MS Word 95 or Word 2000 then you cannot read my file.....even though I have done precisely what you asked for...Each version does allow writing of a backwards compatible version and that would help us both out!
I am currently freelance in the computer industry and its amazing the number of people who e-mail me back saying my CV was not in Word format when it was - its their software thats out of date...
Cheers for the info,
FF
Can I make a request?...as an employer requesting CVs in specific word processor formats can you also add the version of the software you are using...i.e. the maximum version of the file you can read.
You see each new version of MS Word uses a new format...if you only have Word 6 and I produce my CV under MS Word 95 or Word 2000 then you cannot read my file.....even though I have done precisely what you asked for...Each version does allow writing of a backwards compatible version and that would help us both out!
I am currently freelance in the computer industry and its amazing the number of people who e-mail me back saying my CV was not in Word format when it was - its their software thats out of date...
Cheers for the info,
FF
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 1
From: Egcc
Slightly of topic, but it has been mentioned as a question of how to get yourself noticed when you are in the majority (low hours).
As Daifly says, meeting someone who has left a good impression will make him more inclined to spend a little more time on that cv and perhaps keep it when it would otherwise have been filed under WPB (waste paper bin).
Whilst times are very difficult for the candidates seeking employment, networking has to be time well spent in the job hunt market. If you don't do it sure as eggs someone else will be.
So, Formation Flyer, I would suggest that this is what will make your cv stand out from the crowd rather than the words on the page (with all respect, if everyone elses 'fits' the requirements, there is little else you can do with the words and format to get it noticed).
When the recruiting picks up things will inevitably be easier, but you will still be trying to get noticed from a large pile. Even the trusty phone calls can get you noticed. You have to be careful, as always, not to become a pain, but it worked for me. The airline were recruiting and I had the minimum number of total hours required (700) but being a large IT carrier there were hundreds of applicants with much more total time and on heavier types than me. For 4 1/2 months I kept abreast of the situation by calling every couple of weeks for an 'update' and a chance to get my name in their thoughts again. Recruitment was being administered by the CP's PA and she was a tough cookie! Every so often I would try to get the CP (I'd done my homework and found out he was an amenable guy who would always speak to a wannabe and give his frank opinion). The way he stopped getting every wannabe calling him was to have his PA filter the calls! I rang during lunch hours to bypass her and spoke to him 4 times in 4 months..........timing was down to luck and it just so happened that the last time I called he found himself 1 pilot short for a course start date..................
As ever, good luck
PP
As Daifly says, meeting someone who has left a good impression will make him more inclined to spend a little more time on that cv and perhaps keep it when it would otherwise have been filed under WPB (waste paper bin).
Whilst times are very difficult for the candidates seeking employment, networking has to be time well spent in the job hunt market. If you don't do it sure as eggs someone else will be.
So, Formation Flyer, I would suggest that this is what will make your cv stand out from the crowd rather than the words on the page (with all respect, if everyone elses 'fits' the requirements, there is little else you can do with the words and format to get it noticed).
When the recruiting picks up things will inevitably be easier, but you will still be trying to get noticed from a large pile. Even the trusty phone calls can get you noticed. You have to be careful, as always, not to become a pain, but it worked for me. The airline were recruiting and I had the minimum number of total hours required (700) but being a large IT carrier there were hundreds of applicants with much more total time and on heavier types than me. For 4 1/2 months I kept abreast of the situation by calling every couple of weeks for an 'update' and a chance to get my name in their thoughts again. Recruitment was being administered by the CP's PA and she was a tough cookie! Every so often I would try to get the CP (I'd done my homework and found out he was an amenable guy who would always speak to a wannabe and give his frank opinion). The way he stopped getting every wannabe calling him was to have his PA filter the calls! I rang during lunch hours to bypass her and spoke to him 4 times in 4 months..........timing was down to luck and it just so happened that the last time I called he found himself 1 pilot short for a course start date..................
As ever, good luck
PP
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 896
Likes: 0
From: US
Formation flyer: thanks for the feedback. We have the lastest versions of both, and I have always been able to open CV's sent in WP or MW.
For some strange reason, the last go-around we received dozens of CV's attached as "zip" files. We are unable to open them, and have no other reason to purchase the software. There were also some other formats that I did not recognize and could not open. They were deleted.
These are examples of poor "first impressions" and in this competitive world......
I will keep in mind your suggestion, but in light of being able to open all CV's received in WP or MW without considering the version, I am at a loss to understand how this is a problem.
Please provide more feedback and educate me.
Cheers,
For some strange reason, the last go-around we received dozens of CV's attached as "zip" files. We are unable to open them, and have no other reason to purchase the software. There were also some other formats that I did not recognize and could not open. They were deleted.
These are examples of poor "first impressions" and in this competitive world......
I will keep in mind your suggestion, but in light of being able to open all CV's received in WP or MW without considering the version, I am at a loss to understand how this is a problem.
Please provide more feedback and educate me.
Cheers,
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 424
Likes: 0
From: UK
Hi
Check 6:
Yeah with the latest version you will be OK and will be able to open everything - the problem comes when they release the next version and you keep your current version.....yet the person sending you the CV has upgraded - the new file format he has written cant then cant be read by your older s/w. Glad to know its not been a problem.
As for ZIP/RAR/ACE formats - these are compressed formats designed to reduce filesize and thus e-mail time. WinZip is shareware downloadable (read free!) - there is no need to buy it - (www.winzip.com i think). The folks sending you CVs in these formats are just trying to save time during transfer....so they may well have sent you a CV in the format you requested - but compressed it is one of these archive - so they havent exactly ignored your request...just thought they were helping you/themselves so a large file download was unecessary......
That said there should be no need to compress a word doc - its only gonna be a few Kb anyway...
BTW - Thanks for the info....its helpful to know that its best just to e-mail it straight rather than trying to be clever and compress the file - because the target employer may not have the compression s/w required to look at it!
Its also interesting to know that those peeps who are looking to employ us really do start to evaluate us based on all that we provide...so here is another question.......
If you receive a paper CV do you like to see time & effort taken to choose good quality paper or is any old 80gms paper suitable!? (personally I have a stock of good quality conquerer purely for printing my CV /letters on...) - Im just wandering what effect such things have on you (the prospective employer).
Also....are there preferences to 'style' of layout of CV - I guess this is kinda personal but obviously there must be styles which you just go 'oh no'...and bin it...!
Cheers,
FF
Check 6:
Yeah with the latest version you will be OK and will be able to open everything - the problem comes when they release the next version and you keep your current version.....yet the person sending you the CV has upgraded - the new file format he has written cant then cant be read by your older s/w. Glad to know its not been a problem.
As for ZIP/RAR/ACE formats - these are compressed formats designed to reduce filesize and thus e-mail time. WinZip is shareware downloadable (read free!) - there is no need to buy it - (www.winzip.com i think). The folks sending you CVs in these formats are just trying to save time during transfer....so they may well have sent you a CV in the format you requested - but compressed it is one of these archive - so they havent exactly ignored your request...just thought they were helping you/themselves so a large file download was unecessary......
That said there should be no need to compress a word doc - its only gonna be a few Kb anyway...
BTW - Thanks for the info....its helpful to know that its best just to e-mail it straight rather than trying to be clever and compress the file - because the target employer may not have the compression s/w required to look at it!
Its also interesting to know that those peeps who are looking to employ us really do start to evaluate us based on all that we provide...so here is another question.......
If you receive a paper CV do you like to see time & effort taken to choose good quality paper or is any old 80gms paper suitable!? (personally I have a stock of good quality conquerer purely for printing my CV /letters on...) - Im just wandering what effect such things have on you (the prospective employer).
Also....are there preferences to 'style' of layout of CV - I guess this is kinda personal but obviously there must be styles which you just go 'oh no'...and bin it...!
Cheers,
FF
Last edited by FormationFlyer; 31st May 2002 at 12:48.
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 424
Likes: 0
From: UK
Pilot Pete: Cheers. The I really dont wanna cold call and p*** the folks off with yet another wannabe chasing a non-existent job.....but as you say...homework pays off....I have a shortlist of about 5 airlines that I would *really* like to work for...obviously I have my favourites amongst those...
Im just too concious of being a nuisance!
But I want that job. 6 years of hard work, im not letting it go yet! So I guess Ill gen up more and more and be a little more forward and persistent without miffing anyone off...
Thanks for the advice.
FF
Im just too concious of being a nuisance!
But I want that job. 6 years of hard work, im not letting it go yet! So I guess Ill gen up more and more and be a little more forward and persistent without miffing anyone off...
Thanks for the advice.
FF
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 896
Likes: 0
From: US
Formationflyer, I will attempt to answer your questions. You did read between the lines, i.e. why zip a CV in the first place. Also, if the employer provides instructions, there must be a reason, so do not be creative, just follow the instructions, period.
Yes, I would hope that all employers evaluate to some degree the applicant based on what is provided. Again, unless otherwise requested, a CV and cover letter will suffice. I forgot to mention previously, it is extremely important that the applicant writes the CV to fit the specific position applied for. i.e. provide sufficient information to show that you meet the requirements spelled out in the advertisement. By not doing this places the CV in the wrong pile (not good).
I receive few CV's via the mails, as it takes too long in this electronic age. I do receive faxed copies, and that is OK, as I provide the information to fax them in my advertisements. So, to answer your question regarding quality paper, yes, this does leave a positive impression. i.e. all other things being equal, a quality CV does stand out. I used to see these in the States, but not in Europe due to the slow mails.
As far as style, my personal preference is an easy to read font and font size, nothing artistic or creative, just professional. Write a CV to please the prospective employer. Again, first impressions count in this highly competitive market.
Additionally, as far as phone calls, I will take calls, but do not currently list my non-fax number in the advertisement. So to contact me, one needs to do a little research, and that shows initiative. Our phone numbers are not readily available.
Other contributors above have made excellent suggestions regarding composing a CV. We do not care about your trips to Tibet, etc. I suggest to submit a CV "tailored" for the position applied for. This may only require a very minor change. I do not believe that one size fits all.
An example is: POSITION APPLIED FOR: First Officer position with British Airways.
This is much better than: First Officer Position.
I have received resumes in the past with another company listed, very funny actually. The applicant got in too much of a hurry and did not proof-read his CV.
This reminds me, proof-read your CV and cover letter, and do it again, and then have another person do it. You would be suprised how many I receive with mis-spelled words or poor grammar. I do not throw these out, but again, are not very impressive.
Enough of my rambling on,
good weekend to all.
Yes, I would hope that all employers evaluate to some degree the applicant based on what is provided. Again, unless otherwise requested, a CV and cover letter will suffice. I forgot to mention previously, it is extremely important that the applicant writes the CV to fit the specific position applied for. i.e. provide sufficient information to show that you meet the requirements spelled out in the advertisement. By not doing this places the CV in the wrong pile (not good).
I receive few CV's via the mails, as it takes too long in this electronic age. I do receive faxed copies, and that is OK, as I provide the information to fax them in my advertisements. So, to answer your question regarding quality paper, yes, this does leave a positive impression. i.e. all other things being equal, a quality CV does stand out. I used to see these in the States, but not in Europe due to the slow mails.
As far as style, my personal preference is an easy to read font and font size, nothing artistic or creative, just professional. Write a CV to please the prospective employer. Again, first impressions count in this highly competitive market.
Additionally, as far as phone calls, I will take calls, but do not currently list my non-fax number in the advertisement. So to contact me, one needs to do a little research, and that shows initiative. Our phone numbers are not readily available.
Other contributors above have made excellent suggestions regarding composing a CV. We do not care about your trips to Tibet, etc. I suggest to submit a CV "tailored" for the position applied for. This may only require a very minor change. I do not believe that one size fits all.
An example is: POSITION APPLIED FOR: First Officer position with British Airways.
This is much better than: First Officer Position.
I have received resumes in the past with another company listed, very funny actually. The applicant got in too much of a hurry and did not proof-read his CV.
This reminds me, proof-read your CV and cover letter, and do it again, and then have another person do it. You would be suprised how many I receive with mis-spelled words or poor grammar. I do not throw these out, but again, are not very impressive.
Enough of my rambling on,
good weekend to all.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
From: South East
One thing that amazed me when I sent out my CV originaly, was that to save companies money and a little time I enclosed a stamped adressed envelope. Of the approx. 50% of companies that decided to reply only 2 or 3 used the envelope, so much for saving money.
Could companies not just have a card saying, sorry no vacancies at present or come back with x hours? I am luck enough to have a job now but not with a company I even applied too!!
Could companies not just have a card saying, sorry no vacancies at present or come back with x hours? I am luck enough to have a job now but not with a company I even applied too!!
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 865
Likes: 0
From: UK
A few airlines - BA / Britts and think Titan do send (or did a few years ago) a fairly standard letter that didnt even have your name on it, detailing their position. I was amused that it took Britts 6 months to do this though !!!