Jerez or another school..advice pls
I have no idea what the 4 aircraft you claim are for sale are. They always had more aircraft than there were instructors or students to fly anyway...
I do know that you are putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 43.
If I had to choose one, just one, school that was financially secure in these troubled times it would be Jerez. It is a wholly owned subsidiary of a company that turns over something like £3,000,000,000 a year.
Not to say that as a subsidiary it could show a loss and decide to close. But you could still claim against BAE corporate. They have a company image to protect and being hectored publicly by dozens of vocal young aspiring pilots on the stand at the Farnborough and Paris airshows etc. would not go down well.
They would without hesitation re-pay customers monies owed and damn the piffiling cost.
In summary. Unlikely to fold and even if it did Big Brother would pay back the money.
So lets not have ANY more scaremongering stories about ANY flying schools. Facts from insiders are more than welcome - precious even - but speculation can be very damaging.
WWW
I do know that you are putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 43.
If I had to choose one, just one, school that was financially secure in these troubled times it would be Jerez. It is a wholly owned subsidiary of a company that turns over something like £3,000,000,000 a year.
Not to say that as a subsidiary it could show a loss and decide to close. But you could still claim against BAE corporate. They have a company image to protect and being hectored publicly by dozens of vocal young aspiring pilots on the stand at the Farnborough and Paris airshows etc. would not go down well.
They would without hesitation re-pay customers monies owed and damn the piffiling cost.
In summary. Unlikely to fold and even if it did Big Brother would pay back the money.
So lets not have ANY more scaremongering stories about ANY flying schools. Facts from insiders are more than welcome - precious even - but speculation can be very damaging.
WWW
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I did my MCC course at Oxford on their 737(ish) simulator.
As the guys have said, it is not a type rating but by the time I had finished the course, myself and the colleague I did the course with had been through the grinder.
It appeared to me that the instructors put in as much as you were prepared to put in; there was another duo doing the course at the same time as us who thought it was a breeze... wonder how much work they were doing ??!!
We had to learn a certain airlines SOPs, full cockpit scans, drills, had to be familiar with the QRH and basically had our asses kicked from 0600 Monday to 2100 the following Wednesday. We worked till 11pm every night on these things and all I can say is - 'thanks Oxford', 'cos those guys set us up for our turboprop jobs.
With hindsight and experience, I can quite categorically say that the MCC has ****** all to do with the type of simulator, the visuals or any other fancy thing. It's about the quality of instruction, how hard they push you and, most importantly, how hard you are prepared to push yourself.
Talk to recent students at MCC courses from all schools. Beware of any who say it was easy. If it was easy, they haven't learned what they were supposed to, and it is, really, wasted cash.
As things change so rapidly in the training business, my experience may well differ from yours, which is why chasing up recent grads. (and good schools will give you contact details if asked) is so important.
Good luck, work hard
As the guys have said, it is not a type rating but by the time I had finished the course, myself and the colleague I did the course with had been through the grinder.
It appeared to me that the instructors put in as much as you were prepared to put in; there was another duo doing the course at the same time as us who thought it was a breeze... wonder how much work they were doing ??!!
We had to learn a certain airlines SOPs, full cockpit scans, drills, had to be familiar with the QRH and basically had our asses kicked from 0600 Monday to 2100 the following Wednesday. We worked till 11pm every night on these things and all I can say is - 'thanks Oxford', 'cos those guys set us up for our turboprop jobs.
With hindsight and experience, I can quite categorically say that the MCC has ****** all to do with the type of simulator, the visuals or any other fancy thing. It's about the quality of instruction, how hard they push you and, most importantly, how hard you are prepared to push yourself.
Talk to recent students at MCC courses from all schools. Beware of any who say it was easy. If it was easy, they haven't learned what they were supposed to, and it is, really, wasted cash.
As things change so rapidly in the training business, my experience may well differ from yours, which is why chasing up recent grads. (and good schools will give you contact details if asked) is so important.
Good luck, work hard
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I suspect that the aircraft you are refering to were those being sent back to the UK for major maintenance - none of ours are up for sale.
However, when we moved here 18 months ago we did offload some of our excess inventory - but none have gone since.
2+2=43 as WWW says.
However, when we moved here 18 months ago we did offload some of our excess inventory - but none have gone since.
2+2=43 as WWW says.
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I apologise If I am wrong but, the a/c's are sitting on the apron now, they still need servicing??, if they needed that big "mantaince" wouldn't any company in jerez or even spain be able to do it, it seems a bit strange that if there was something wrong with it/them why would they risk flying it back to the U.K??? and why did 4 go all at once??
Please.. I am not agaist BAE at all, in fact I spent the last year convencing my dad to send my there, (he is still thinking grrrrrr)I still want to come. Just trying to help anyone who is scared of losing money, lets face it no one can afford to lose 50k.
Please.. I am not agaist BAE at all, in fact I spent the last year convencing my dad to send my there, (he is still thinking grrrrrr)I still want to come. Just trying to help anyone who is scared of losing money, lets face it no one can afford to lose 50k.
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I think (but I may be wrong) that as the aeroplanes are UK registered certain parts of the maintenance have to be done in the UK - but I'm no eng so what do I know.
No one will lose £50k here - in the INCREDIBLY unlikely event that we go under (which we won't) BAE will ensure that your training gets done - we have too much credibility at stake. We have the backing to ensure that we stay afloat - so financial security can go off the worry list.
No one will lose £50k here - in the INCREDIBLY unlikely event that we go under (which we won't) BAE will ensure that your training gets done - we have too much credibility at stake. We have the backing to ensure that we stay afloat - so financial security can go off the worry list.
Rich Tea - single works out about £180hr and twin about £300hr. Which is pretty normal for CPL level dual time at large FTO's.
At present of the self sponsored courses that graduated in the last 6 month to 12 month period 2001 I know of only 3 guys with jobs.
The situation is very grim for job seekers fresh out of school.
Cheers,
WWW
At present of the self sponsored courses that graduated in the last 6 month to 12 month period 2001 I know of only 3 guys with jobs.
The situation is very grim for job seekers fresh out of school.
Cheers,
WWW
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Ignore CheshireCat, who poses as a barmaid elsewhere on this site, but doesn't the pilot market suggest that investing in any ATPL course now requires huge courage? Also, isn't it the case that there has NEVER been a shortage of low-hours pilots chasing jobs? If that was still true in 2000, won't Wannabe prospects of a worthwhile career job be virtually nil for 2002/03?
If you really must start now, wouldn't the sensible strategy be to do a PPL, the other basic stuff and the necessary hours over the next year or so, before deciding whether it's then worth the huge risk of giving-up your job and much more money on an ATPL course?
Agreed that Jerez may be less likely to close than its competitors but, with the huge reduction in professional training business, SFT may not be the last to go. So how and where do BAe actually GUARANTEE that their Jerez subsidiary will continue, to either staff or students?
If you really must start now, wouldn't the sensible strategy be to do a PPL, the other basic stuff and the necessary hours over the next year or so, before deciding whether it's then worth the huge risk of giving-up your job and much more money on an ATPL course?
Agreed that Jerez may be less likely to close than its competitors but, with the huge reduction in professional training business, SFT may not be the last to go. So how and where do BAe actually GUARANTEE that their Jerez subsidiary will continue, to either staff or students?
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QUERY - You do have it in for us, don't you?
We have the word of the chairman of BAE himself that the company will back us through the lean times, regardless of how much or how little trade comes our way. Who else in this business can say that? In addition (as was the case when Prestwick was "under review") the company has pledged that all student training money will be protected should the ubelieveably unlikely happen and we go down. However, this is purely academic anyway - we will not go down.
A great deal of money has been invested in this place to get it up and running, but unlike the RJX (to which I assume you refer) we actually stand a chance of making a profit!
The RJX is up against a large number of (government subsidised - at least with Embraer) competitors, whereas our competitor base is shrinking all the time.
You are comparing chalk and cheese - obviously hoping to destroy customer confidence with the aim of hurting our business.
We have the word of the chairman of BAE himself that the company will back us through the lean times, regardless of how much or how little trade comes our way. Who else in this business can say that? In addition (as was the case when Prestwick was "under review") the company has pledged that all student training money will be protected should the ubelieveably unlikely happen and we go down. However, this is purely academic anyway - we will not go down.
A great deal of money has been invested in this place to get it up and running, but unlike the RJX (to which I assume you refer) we actually stand a chance of making a profit!
The RJX is up against a large number of (government subsidised - at least with Embraer) competitors, whereas our competitor base is shrinking all the time.
You are comparing chalk and cheese - obviously hoping to destroy customer confidence with the aim of hurting our business.
Oh this really is pointless.
We have got a big thread running here about the stability of the most stable major FTO.
As I have pointed out before many times - Prestwick lost money for about 80% of years it was open. BAE see a college of flying training as a startegic asset.
This speculation is founded on nothig more than 4 aircraft out of a fleet of more than 30 being back in the UK for engineering reasons.
Guys, there are far more important things to spend time and bandwidth on than this.
Cheers,
WWW
We have got a big thread running here about the stability of the most stable major FTO.
As I have pointed out before many times - Prestwick lost money for about 80% of years it was open. BAE see a college of flying training as a startegic asset.
This speculation is founded on nothig more than 4 aircraft out of a fleet of more than 30 being back in the UK for engineering reasons.
Guys, there are far more important things to spend time and bandwidth on than this.
Cheers,
WWW
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Yep, Who is Query? and from his postings, usually based on FTO's, why is he always probing - is he an industry analyst or what?
What does he do? Query would you say who you work for - you can usually tell by the others' postings, but you are always quite vague...
Strange.
What does he do? Query would you say who you work for - you can usually tell by the others' postings, but you are always quite vague...
Strange.
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And just to be even more of a bugbear, can I just repeat the purpose of the original thread, posted by lgl:
posted 13 November 2001 17:03
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Hey there !!!!
I need a bit of advice, Im gonna start my CPL/ME/IR soon, and Im now considering different schools. Been thinking about Oxford but after having read all the s**t about them here Im open for other options and Jerez has come up as well on the top, but I would like to know more or if any of you know other good schools to do the flyingside of the ATPL.
Thanks
Best rgds
LGL
So please lets continue, as I am interested myself in the (original) topic......
posted 13 November 2001 17:03
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey there !!!!
I need a bit of advice, Im gonna start my CPL/ME/IR soon, and Im now considering different schools. Been thinking about Oxford but after having read all the s**t about them here Im open for other options and Jerez has come up as well on the top, but I would like to know more or if any of you know other good schools to do the flyingside of the ATPL.
Thanks
Best rgds
LGL
So please lets continue, as I am interested myself in the (original) topic......
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Extract of MSN UK today.
" BAE SYSTEMS CUTS 1,700 JOBS AS JET SALES SLUMP
BAE Systems is to cut nearly 1,700 jobs in its regional jets business because of a downturn in orders following the US terror attacks. The group says the cuts will hit factories in Manchester and at Prestwick in Scotland. Union leaders have described the job losses as 'devastating'. A total of 993 jobs will be cut at Woodfordin Manchester; 299 at Chadderton, also in Manchester; 219 at Prestwick in Ayrshire; 140 at Samlesbury, near Preston; and 18 at Filton, near Bristol. Chief executive John Weston says the company has completed a detailed assessment of the likely impact on its business of the "severe downturn" in the commercial aerospace market. Mr Weston says: "Since September, the trading outlook in these markets has changed substantially." He says profit expectations for the Airbus, which BAE helps build, have been reduced significantly next year, and the outlook for regional aircraft has "deteriorated sharply". BAE Systems had been tipped to issue a profits warning today, including substantial write-downs on the back of falling sales in its civil aerospace division. Falling orders for the RJ-100 Avro series of aircraft, formerly the BAE 146 are at the centre of the speculation. One of these aircraft, operated by Crossair, crashed in Switzerland over the weekend - killing 24 people. BAE Systems derives about 20% of its business from civil aerospace, with the remainder coming from defence "
" BAE SYSTEMS CUTS 1,700 JOBS AS JET SALES SLUMP
BAE Systems is to cut nearly 1,700 jobs in its regional jets business because of a downturn in orders following the US terror attacks. The group says the cuts will hit factories in Manchester and at Prestwick in Scotland. Union leaders have described the job losses as 'devastating'. A total of 993 jobs will be cut at Woodfordin Manchester; 299 at Chadderton, also in Manchester; 219 at Prestwick in Ayrshire; 140 at Samlesbury, near Preston; and 18 at Filton, near Bristol. Chief executive John Weston says the company has completed a detailed assessment of the likely impact on its business of the "severe downturn" in the commercial aerospace market. Mr Weston says: "Since September, the trading outlook in these markets has changed substantially." He says profit expectations for the Airbus, which BAE helps build, have been reduced significantly next year, and the outlook for regional aircraft has "deteriorated sharply". BAE Systems had been tipped to issue a profits warning today, including substantial write-downs on the back of falling sales in its civil aerospace division. Falling orders for the RJ-100 Avro series of aircraft, formerly the BAE 146 are at the centre of the speculation. One of these aircraft, operated by Crossair, crashed in Switzerland over the weekend - killing 24 people. BAE Systems derives about 20% of its business from civil aerospace, with the remainder coming from defence "
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Yes I am a bar maid, so what??????
I am also.. a qualifed medical secretary, medical assistant, general insurance service standard, call centre qualifed, and pool and sea lifeguard.... now I am only 19 now really why do you think that just becuase I am a bar maid I am dumb or something??.
I am only doing to bar maid thing to get in with the surrounding schools and hoping I can get a job with them once a postition becomes avail. You would be suprised what you learn, and I have also been ofered soooo many trips in private a/c....
So I ask again.... am I really dumb??????
and WWW do you really have to make comments like ..this post really isn't worth it, or Oh this really is pointless.... why are you aways commenting like this.. if its really pointless THEN DONT REPLY! drrrrrrrr..
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with all being equal the simplist answer tends to be the right one..
Dont regret the things you have done,
only regret the things you haven't.
I am also.. a qualifed medical secretary, medical assistant, general insurance service standard, call centre qualifed, and pool and sea lifeguard.... now I am only 19 now really why do you think that just becuase I am a bar maid I am dumb or something??.
I am only doing to bar maid thing to get in with the surrounding schools and hoping I can get a job with them once a postition becomes avail. You would be suprised what you learn, and I have also been ofered soooo many trips in private a/c....
So I ask again.... am I really dumb??????
and WWW do you really have to make comments like ..this post really isn't worth it, or Oh this really is pointless.... why are you aways commenting like this.. if its really pointless THEN DONT REPLY! drrrrrrrr..
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with all being equal the simplist answer tends to be the right one..
Dont regret the things you have done,
only regret the things you haven't.
Cheshire - I think this thread is pointless for the reasons I gave immediately after I made that comment.
Thanks for your input but I'll say what I like on my own forum thanks.
Cheers now,
WWW
Thanks for your input but I'll say what I like on my own forum thanks.
Cheers now,
WWW
