Jerez or another school..advice pls
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Jerez or another school..advice pls
Hey there !!!!
I need a bit of advice, Im gonna start my CPL/ME/IR soon, and Im now considering different schools. Been thinking about Oxford but after having read all the s**t about them here Im open for other options and Jerez has come up as well on the top, but I would like to know more or if any of you know other good schools to do the flyingside of the ATPL.
Thanks
Best rgds
LGL
I need a bit of advice, Im gonna start my CPL/ME/IR soon, and Im now considering different schools. Been thinking about Oxford but after having read all the s**t about them here Im open for other options and Jerez has come up as well on the top, but I would like to know more or if any of you know other good schools to do the flyingside of the ATPL.
Thanks
Best rgds
LGL
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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BAE Jerez only do Ab-Initio courses at present so unless you want to pay up for the full monty then I think you´d have to look elsewhere if it´s just the flying side of the whole package that you want to do. I may be wrong so best thing to do is ring the marketing department.
Aside, it is a great place to come. Weather is a bit cool at the moment but it gets very nice in summer and Jerez has a half decent night life for those Friday nights after a weeks hard work!
I think it is one of the safest schools to train with at the moment if not the safest. The school has apparently had reassurance from the top man that he wants to ride out the storm and have BAE as the leading flight training school in the world afterwards. Can any other school be sure they won´t go under given the currenet state of affairs? I doubt it.
All the best,
VFE.
Aside, it is a great place to come. Weather is a bit cool at the moment but it gets very nice in summer and Jerez has a half decent night life for those Friday nights after a weeks hard work!
I think it is one of the safest schools to train with at the moment if not the safest. The school has apparently had reassurance from the top man that he wants to ride out the storm and have BAE as the leading flight training school in the world afterwards. Can any other school be sure they won´t go under given the currenet state of affairs? I doubt it.
All the best,
VFE.
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I can't comment in case it is taken as advertising. However, I'm sure BEagle will chip in soon, likewise WWW.
B*gger it - I will. Yes, come here. I won't say we are better than the others, or more secure, but we are secure and turn out a decent standard. Good weather (mostly) cheap beer and if you bring your own car, unleaded at 45p/litre is a nice little bonus.
Ask any questions you may have - I'll do my best to answer.
Oh yes, we also have a FANTASTIC jet simulator training team for your MCC!
B*gger it - I will. Yes, come here. I won't say we are better than the others, or more secure, but we are secure and turn out a decent standard. Good weather (mostly) cheap beer and if you bring your own car, unleaded at 45p/litre is a nice little bonus.
Ask any questions you may have - I'll do my best to answer.
Oh yes, we also have a FANTASTIC jet simulator training team for your MCC!
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Thanks guys
Moggie, do you do modular training as I've already got the PPL night IMC and the 14 written exams taken in the UK.
Are there any others with some good advice of which schools are good and which are'nt??
Rgds
LGL
Moggie, do you do modular training as I've already got the PPL night IMC and the 14 written exams taken in the UK.
Are there any others with some good advice of which schools are good and which are'nt??
Rgds
LGL
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Hi Guys,
Moggie/VFE - Without phoning Mary Jo directly could you tell me if Jerez discounts those of us that have already done some flying (PPL/ratings/hours/etc)? I know it will be different for each individual.
I myself might consider self funding next spring and know a little about OATS/BAE/Cabair/Michigen.
Moggie/VFE - Without phoning Mary Jo directly could you tell me if Jerez discounts those of us that have already done some flying (PPL/ratings/hours/etc)? I know it will be different for each individual.
I myself might consider self funding next spring and know a little about OATS/BAE/Cabair/Michigen.
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LGL 737,
Can't comment on the flying side yet as, will be doing the CPL with Oxford in January. However - from the ground school side I personally have found Oxford excellent. Yes they have had some bad press but, please don't lose sight of the fact that there are contented students there too (I'm doing the modular route). Good luck with wherever you eventually choose.
Can't comment on the flying side yet as, will be doing the CPL with Oxford in January. However - from the ground school side I personally have found Oxford excellent. Yes they have had some bad press but, please don't lose sight of the fact that there are contented students there too (I'm doing the modular route). Good luck with wherever you eventually choose.
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KK
There is a scheme under JAR-FCL whereby the holder of a PPL can have hours credited towards a full time integrated course such as that offered by BAE. This is up to a maximum of 40 hours (although I think you can get the night credit as well).
BAE will not give you a discount at the outset of the course, as there is no way of knowing if you will complete the course in the minimum time. If for example you were to fail a few tests or require the odd extra hour here and there you would then be presented with a bill at the end.
I have just completed the course with BAE, and was credited with upto 40 hours. As it happened I needed an extra couple of hours twin time but saved on the single. This meant I left the course with a fairly nice cheque.
If you want to know more specific details about BAE then please email me.
There is a scheme under JAR-FCL whereby the holder of a PPL can have hours credited towards a full time integrated course such as that offered by BAE. This is up to a maximum of 40 hours (although I think you can get the night credit as well).
BAE will not give you a discount at the outset of the course, as there is no way of knowing if you will complete the course in the minimum time. If for example you were to fail a few tests or require the odd extra hour here and there you would then be presented with a bill at the end.
I have just completed the course with BAE, and was credited with upto 40 hours. As it happened I needed an extra couple of hours twin time but saved on the single. This meant I left the course with a fairly nice cheque.
If you want to know more specific details about BAE then please email me.
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CW just about covers it as far as I can see. I confess that I don't get involved with costings/discounts/credits - I just leave that to the bean counters, while I get on with delivering training.
However, I doubt that either ourselves or Oxford will let you down in terms of training provided or the financial security to see it through. Depends if you want to drink expensive beer while watching Coronation street (hiding from rain) or cheap beer while sitting in the sunshine on a lovely March evening!
Your call.
However, I doubt that either ourselves or Oxford will let you down in terms of training provided or the financial security to see it through. Depends if you want to drink expensive beer while watching Coronation street (hiding from rain) or cheap beer while sitting in the sunshine on a lovely March evening!
Your call.
It even rained in August on the day of 'our' party. 
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I did the works at Bristol Flying Centre recently and I'm happy to recommend them.
Drop me a line if you want details.
Don't forget with the winter weather the CPL is going to take a lot longer than advertised.
Regards
feetnknees
Drop me a line if you want details.
Don't forget with the winter weather the CPL is going to take a lot longer than advertised.
Regards
feetnknees
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Moggie is right about financial security - OAT and BAe are safe bets.
Moggie, FANTASTIC MCC team, but shame about the simulator?
I teach on the integrated side @ Oxford, so cannot comment from my own experience about the Modular training. However, it's run by an excellent guy, as experienced as you can get, and is used both by Western Michigan University, for JAA IRs, and the RAF for Multi training. Say no more!
BAe are a good school. But I would look hard at OAT (but then I'm biased!!)
Moggie, FANTASTIC MCC team, but shame about the simulator?
I teach on the integrated side @ Oxford, so cannot comment from my own experience about the Modular training. However, it's run by an excellent guy, as experienced as you can get, and is used both by Western Michigan University, for JAA IRs, and the RAF for Multi training. Say no more!
BAe are a good school. But I would look hard at OAT (but then I'm biased!!)
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Rich Tea
I am happy to reply to your questions, but remember it is based on my personal experience with BAE in Jerez, and different people have different views on things so here goes :
1. YES. Spanish is not needed. Obviously the more you can pick up the better, but you will soon learn how to order beer and ask for more potatoes. There are a lot of the staff that speak Spanish and English, and I always found them very helpful if anything needed translating, or you needed to contact a Spanish person for some reason.
2. A few have their own cars. I was there for about six months before I took my car down. It is a long drive, and I would hesitate about doing it again. It is very handy to have a car down there especially for bringing everything home at the end of the course, but it is perfectly possible to get by on the transport provided at the college and with the use of local taxis.
3. I'm sure moggie is better qualified to answer this one, but remember it is MCC and NOT A TYPE-RATING so I don't think it matters what you do it in. The HS125 is great fun to fly.
4. Well I didn't!
5. How much time do you think you are going to have to go off sight-seeing
The town of Jerez is very historic with loads of things to visit it that turns you on. The Motorbike GP in May is absolutely fantastic as is the fair. Seville is about 40 minutes up the road, and there is loads going on there. Gibralter is about 1 1/2 or 2 hours away if you need Safeway. The coast has fantastic beaches. There are loads of small hill towns and villages to visit. The Sierra Nevada is not far away...... etc.etc.......
6. When I was in groundschool it was notes from Four Forces which to be honest were crap. (little wonder they don't exist anymore). These have been built on using the notes from BAe Prestwick, and I think most subjects have been rewritten. There is a new CBT lab with most (if not all) of the JAR syllabus covered.
I hope that helps a bit, and if you want to know more then email me.
The opinions expressed above are MINE and not neccessarily anyone elses
I am happy to reply to your questions, but remember it is based on my personal experience with BAE in Jerez, and different people have different views on things so here goes :
1. YES. Spanish is not needed. Obviously the more you can pick up the better, but you will soon learn how to order beer and ask for more potatoes. There are a lot of the staff that speak Spanish and English, and I always found them very helpful if anything needed translating, or you needed to contact a Spanish person for some reason.
2. A few have their own cars. I was there for about six months before I took my car down. It is a long drive, and I would hesitate about doing it again. It is very handy to have a car down there especially for bringing everything home at the end of the course, but it is perfectly possible to get by on the transport provided at the college and with the use of local taxis.
3. I'm sure moggie is better qualified to answer this one, but remember it is MCC and NOT A TYPE-RATING so I don't think it matters what you do it in. The HS125 is great fun to fly.
4. Well I didn't!
5. How much time do you think you are going to have to go off sight-seeing
The town of Jerez is very historic with loads of things to visit it that turns you on. The Motorbike GP in May is absolutely fantastic as is the fair. Seville is about 40 minutes up the road, and there is loads going on there. Gibralter is about 1 1/2 or 2 hours away if you need Safeway. The coast has fantastic beaches. There are loads of small hill towns and villages to visit. The Sierra Nevada is not far away...... etc.etc....... 6. When I was in groundschool it was notes from Four Forces which to be honest were crap. (little wonder they don't exist anymore). These have been built on using the notes from BAe Prestwick, and I think most subjects have been rewritten. There is a new CBT lab with most (if not all) of the JAR syllabus covered.
I hope that helps a bit, and if you want to know more then email me.
The opinions expressed above are MINE and not neccessarily anyone elses
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Well, here goes on the simulator.
Yes it is a Hawker 800, not a B737 but unlike most of the purpose built MCC devices (including those at OATS and ATP) ours was originally certified as a full flight simulator for type training and rating and as such looks exactly like the real thing. MCC specific devices do not have full functionality in all areas of systems (because they are not required to) but this does tend to detract from the training because it feels less real.
We fly 737 speeds and when operated to a 737 type SOP the handling differences are so small that you will get a really good leg up if you are going onto the 737 (but not all airlines use them, you know!).
The MCC course is NOT a jet handling course - the CAA won't allow it to be so most of the flying is done on the autopilot anyway. Only longer courses, such as the 44 BA Jet orientation Cousre, may incorporate handling but only AFTER the MCC syllabus has been completed in the first 15-20 hours. We only charge 200 euros per hour for the sim and instructor (so that is only 100 euros per hour per trainee) so buying a few hours of
handling practice is a relatively small expense and will pay off no-end when it comes to selection by an airline.
The quality of training does count for more than the type of device used, up to a point, but I would not recommend doing MCC on a turbo prop - the jet looks better to the potential employer and the higher speeds will help you step up to the type rating.
I know that the guys at OATS and ATP do a good job too - but as I am biased I would suggest that the overall environment here is better. As for the weather, well it has to rain sometime but it does it an awful lot less here than in the UK. Therefore, the local weather encourages the local ladies to wear tighter, skimpier clothing for a bigger proportion of the year (need I say more?).
As for life insurance, you should need no more than you have in the UK - there is a full NHS system here and we have people who are employed specifically to liases between yourselves and the local establishment.
I reckon the car is a good move - local insurance for UK registered right or left hand drive cars can be arranged and I have phone numbers if you need them.
Ultimately, though, it is your call. you will get good training wherever you go if they are one of the bigger players.
Edited to clarify the point that OATS and ATP do a good job too.
[ 20 November 2001: Message edited by: moggie ]
Yes it is a Hawker 800, not a B737 but unlike most of the purpose built MCC devices (including those at OATS and ATP) ours was originally certified as a full flight simulator for type training and rating and as such looks exactly like the real thing. MCC specific devices do not have full functionality in all areas of systems (because they are not required to) but this does tend to detract from the training because it feels less real.
We fly 737 speeds and when operated to a 737 type SOP the handling differences are so small that you will get a really good leg up if you are going onto the 737 (but not all airlines use them, you know!).
The MCC course is NOT a jet handling course - the CAA won't allow it to be so most of the flying is done on the autopilot anyway. Only longer courses, such as the 44 BA Jet orientation Cousre, may incorporate handling but only AFTER the MCC syllabus has been completed in the first 15-20 hours. We only charge 200 euros per hour for the sim and instructor (so that is only 100 euros per hour per trainee) so buying a few hours of
handling practice is a relatively small expense and will pay off no-end when it comes to selection by an airline.
The quality of training does count for more than the type of device used, up to a point, but I would not recommend doing MCC on a turbo prop - the jet looks better to the potential employer and the higher speeds will help you step up to the type rating.
I know that the guys at OATS and ATP do a good job too - but as I am biased I would suggest that the overall environment here is better. As for the weather, well it has to rain sometime but it does it an awful lot less here than in the UK. Therefore, the local weather encourages the local ladies to wear tighter, skimpier clothing for a bigger proportion of the year (need I say more?).
As for life insurance, you should need no more than you have in the UK - there is a full NHS system here and we have people who are employed specifically to liases between yourselves and the local establishment.
I reckon the car is a good move - local insurance for UK registered right or left hand drive cars can be arranged and I have phone numbers if you need them.
Ultimately, though, it is your call. you will get good training wherever you go if they are one of the bigger players.
Edited to clarify the point that OATS and ATP do a good job too.
[ 20 November 2001: Message edited by: moggie ]
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The ground school notes (to the best of my knowledge) are based on a number of sources - Four Forces, Prestwick notes, source documents and "other experience" brought to use by our GIs who come from a wide range of backgrounds (including our colleagues in Oz). I believe the notes to be getting better all the time as a great deal of effort is going into polishing them up - but if one of our GIs happens to see this, would you care to comment?
I don't know the state of the CBT aids - but I do know we are working on a few nice little enhancements for that, too. I shall endeavour to find out for you.
When it comes to extra sim - how much can you afford? We have been working flat out up to now (although the pace is easing a bit!) so there has been little scope but I suggest that at least 4 hours of pure handling at the end of the MCC would be a good start (finish?). I have run this kind of thing before for a chap who sailed through his City Flyer selection - he bought 12 hours and was REALLY well prepared!
If you want to do extra sim time you really have to book early - a lot of our programming is on a 12 month plus lead-in to schedule the MCCs. Of course it MAY be possible to come back for maore when a job interview threatens - but space can not be guaranteed.
I don't know the state of the CBT aids - but I do know we are working on a few nice little enhancements for that, too. I shall endeavour to find out for you.
When it comes to extra sim - how much can you afford? We have been working flat out up to now (although the pace is easing a bit!) so there has been little scope but I suggest that at least 4 hours of pure handling at the end of the MCC would be a good start (finish?). I have run this kind of thing before for a chap who sailed through his City Flyer selection - he bought 12 hours and was REALLY well prepared!
If you want to do extra sim time you really have to book early - a lot of our programming is on a 12 month plus lead-in to schedule the MCCs. Of course it MAY be possible to come back for maore when a job interview threatens - but space can not be guaranteed.
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hey guys ,
I have good memories of Jerez MCC ,
however!!!
the MCC ground school was totally dragged out and could have been compressed into half the time ,but hey ,at that stage of the course you just wanna relax any way
The HS125 sim work was some of the best fun i had down there
the instructors are excellent,and insist on the highest standards
I think the route flying bitty at the end that (ex)Aer Lingus cadets used to do would be a good experience and worthwhile paying for ...
thats my tuppence worth
I have good memories of Jerez MCC ,
however!!!
the MCC ground school was totally dragged out and could have been compressed into half the time ,but hey ,at that stage of the course you just wanna relax any way
The HS125 sim work was some of the best fun i had down there
the instructors are excellent,and insist on the highest standards
I think the route flying bitty at the end that (ex)Aer Lingus cadets used to do would be a good experience and worthwhile paying for ...
thats my tuppence worth
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signeti - we can't reduce the groundschool because of CAA/JAA rules. We are required to give 25 hours of classroom instruction covering the stipulated MCC syllabus and that is the way it must be. Take a 9 to 5 (that's 8 hours) subtract lunch (1 hour) a few tea breaks (another hour) and you are doing 6 hours per day x 5 days = 30 hour with the extra time spent on delving deeper into the SOP. If we do not give that 25 hour training we are not allowed to issue a certificate at the end.
Remember that a good chunk of the groundschool covers SOPs etc. that will have a direct effect upon your performance in the sim. It is also worth noting that since the introduction of MCC and it's "dragging" groundschool we have seen a marked INCREASE in the standards attained in the sim. This is because there is less "on job" training of checks, call, briefings etc. and more operating time teaching you what you REALLY want and need to know.
Take it from me, the MCC groundschool is worth staying awake for.
A bit of route flying on the end is good value but so is some hands on time - 8-10 hours extra makes a HUGE difference (remember that that would be 4-5 hours as P1, plus 4-5 hours as P2). You learn a great deal from the P2 time, too.
8 hours = 1,600 euros PER CREW = 800 euros PER HEAD = under £500 to get a better chance of pasisng that selection.
Furthermore, I would have found my first type course in the RAF one hell of a lot easier if it had been proceded by an MCC type course.
Just a fw thoughts to chew over.
Remember that a good chunk of the groundschool covers SOPs etc. that will have a direct effect upon your performance in the sim. It is also worth noting that since the introduction of MCC and it's "dragging" groundschool we have seen a marked INCREASE in the standards attained in the sim. This is because there is less "on job" training of checks, call, briefings etc. and more operating time teaching you what you REALLY want and need to know.
Take it from me, the MCC groundschool is worth staying awake for.
A bit of route flying on the end is good value but so is some hands on time - 8-10 hours extra makes a HUGE difference (remember that that would be 4-5 hours as P1, plus 4-5 hours as P2). You learn a great deal from the P2 time, too.
8 hours = 1,600 euros PER CREW = 800 euros PER HEAD = under £500 to get a better chance of pasisng that selection.
Furthermore, I would have found my first type course in the RAF one hell of a lot easier if it had been proceded by an MCC type course.
Just a fw thoughts to chew over.
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hey moggie,
dont get me wrong ,MCC was among the most valuable things I learnt in jerez
The JAR laws must be complied with but i thought that if we got
(A) more team building and confidence building "games"or programmes
(B)more chats with the instructors about how they handled their flying experiences (the big Im gave us some great tips for jets in general eg.NDB/DME approachs)
while SOP's were EXPLAINED
none of the SOP's u mentioned were LEARNT in the class ,they were learnt at night in the paper bomber,or using laptops with flight sim programs...(btw it may be an idea for the college to supply some computers with a flight sim to practice procedures)
and as for a few coffee breaks,i think 8 coffee breaks is excessive...and thats BEFORE lunch!!!
but thats not a big thing
dont get me wrong ,MCC was among the most valuable things I learnt in jerez
The JAR laws must be complied with but i thought that if we got
(A) more team building and confidence building "games"or programmes
(B)more chats with the instructors about how they handled their flying experiences (the big Im gave us some great tips for jets in general eg.NDB/DME approachs)
while SOP's were EXPLAINED
none of the SOP's u mentioned were LEARNT in the class ,they were learnt at night in the paper bomber,or using laptops with flight sim programs...(btw it may be an idea for the college to supply some computers with a flight sim to practice procedures)
and as for a few coffee breaks,i think 8 coffee breaks is excessive...and thats BEFORE lunch!!!
but thats not a big thing
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To anyone considering Jerez as there FTO.
I work around my local airport, one of the A/c's sales company on the site has just had to send 4 pilots out there to bring back 4 of their a/c's that they had sold to them, now that to me sounds like trouble!! Be warned! 50k is a focking lot of money to lose!!!!!!!!
I work around my local airport, one of the A/c's sales company on the site has just had to send 4 pilots out there to bring back 4 of their a/c's that they had sold to them, now that to me sounds like trouble!! Be warned! 50k is a focking lot of money to lose!!!!!!!!