How did YOU make it to be a pilot?
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How did YOU make it to be a pilot?
Hi everyone!
A little bit about me: I'm a 19 year old Aerospace Engineering student in my 1st year of University from the UK and have a plan I have put together to become a commercial airline pilot in the future (nothing wrong with having a plan, right?)
As we all know the economic climate is quite frankly shocking at the moment which results to not many commercial pilot jobs on offer - nor scholarships/reasonable loans to complete your training. I have been told that by the time I finish University and are ready to apply for an engineer job in 4-5 years time the economic climate should have picked up by then which means more jobs should be available.
After graduation and working as an aero engineer, I should have some money to put aside each month to fund my training (the modular route) over a few years to get my ratings and licences' needed for a budget of around £50,000 if I play my cards right (even if it means not having a car and still living with the parents for a few years to save maximum money!)
What I really want to know is, how much did it cost you guys to complete your training overall, modular/integrated, what advice could you give to anybody who reads this thread over the next few years when thinking about committing to their training? what plan did you put together to make it to be a pilot?
Many thanks in advance - I appreciate all your advice!
A little bit about me: I'm a 19 year old Aerospace Engineering student in my 1st year of University from the UK and have a plan I have put together to become a commercial airline pilot in the future (nothing wrong with having a plan, right?)
As we all know the economic climate is quite frankly shocking at the moment which results to not many commercial pilot jobs on offer - nor scholarships/reasonable loans to complete your training. I have been told that by the time I finish University and are ready to apply for an engineer job in 4-5 years time the economic climate should have picked up by then which means more jobs should be available.
After graduation and working as an aero engineer, I should have some money to put aside each month to fund my training (the modular route) over a few years to get my ratings and licences' needed for a budget of around £50,000 if I play my cards right (even if it means not having a car and still living with the parents for a few years to save maximum money!)
What I really want to know is, how much did it cost you guys to complete your training overall, modular/integrated, what advice could you give to anybody who reads this thread over the next few years when thinking about committing to their training? what plan did you put together to make it to be a pilot?
Many thanks in advance - I appreciate all your advice!
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Your plan is better than most people. But honestly 50k won't be enough. You'll barely fund the training and then you will need to pay for a type rating (20k). Keep debt free at all times.
My modular training cost in the region of 50-55k, 22k for a TR. A lot of money, but I stayed debt free and now earn in the region of 3.5k a month and have only been an FO for a few months, and the money will only get better. The training pays for itself...if you stay debt free and manage to get a job!
I wouldn't go integrated at all, unless you're on a cadetship. Especially with an airline like BA or Monarch, it might be a better option to take out a loan , go integrated and accept the cadetship!
My modular training cost in the region of 50-55k, 22k for a TR. A lot of money, but I stayed debt free and now earn in the region of 3.5k a month and have only been an FO for a few months, and the money will only get better. The training pays for itself...if you stay debt free and manage to get a job!
I wouldn't go integrated at all, unless you're on a cadetship. Especially with an airline like BA or Monarch, it might be a better option to take out a loan , go integrated and accept the cadetship!
I never added it up.
I graduated in Aero-Eng from a good UK university, then went to work in the industry. I did my PPL(M) during the next year.
Over the next couple of decades I slowly added both engineering and flying qualifications. In roughly the order:-
BEng
PPL(M)
CEng
PPL(SEP)
PhD
CPL
IMC
CRI
I've occasionally gone briefly up to about £6k into debt to pay for a lump of flying, but mostly I've done flying / training / whatever as I went along. I've used the flying experience to get the sexy engineering jobs, and I've used my engineering experience to get fun flying tasks - such as light aircraft test flying. I've also had a reasonable track record as a PPL and later as a CPL of using aeroplanes to travel for work - effectively building hours and experience in work time and subsidised by them.
Mind you, I'd hate to give up either engineering or flying, they're both too much fun. In that I'm probably in a minority, as most people decide that they only want to do one or the other. I've also not personally aspired to fly a big jet, but in many ways that's a personal and lifestyle decision.
Next stages for me are FI, IR, and Prof. I hope.
I graduated in Aero-Eng from a good UK university, then went to work in the industry. I did my PPL(M) during the next year.
Over the next couple of decades I slowly added both engineering and flying qualifications. In roughly the order:-
BEng
PPL(M)
CEng
PPL(SEP)
PhD
CPL
IMC
CRI
I've occasionally gone briefly up to about £6k into debt to pay for a lump of flying, but mostly I've done flying / training / whatever as I went along. I've used the flying experience to get the sexy engineering jobs, and I've used my engineering experience to get fun flying tasks - such as light aircraft test flying. I've also had a reasonable track record as a PPL and later as a CPL of using aeroplanes to travel for work - effectively building hours and experience in work time and subsidised by them.
Mind you, I'd hate to give up either engineering or flying, they're both too much fun. In that I'm probably in a minority, as most people decide that they only want to do one or the other. I've also not personally aspired to fly a big jet, but in many ways that's a personal and lifestyle decision.
Next stages for me are FI, IR, and Prof. I hope.
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How did YOU make it to be a pilot?
If you shop around you will find an integrated or modular course for less than your specified budget. You can find those courses in Easter Europe and more specifically in Greece. You will finish with an EASA licence, just like anyone else would at more expensive schools. If you really want your licence to be issued by CAA, after you get your licence you can apply to CAA to convert your licence.
More importantly do not pay for a type rating because that's one of the reason the industry is going down. Get a job in the general aviation for a year or two and you will improve your flying skills a lot and end up with more money than paying for a type rating and get into a shiny. And having a type rating without experience does not mean your chances of getting a job will increase much.
More importantly do not pay for a type rating because that's one of the reason the industry is going down. Get a job in the general aviation for a year or two and you will improve your flying skills a lot and end up with more money than paying for a type rating and get into a shiny. And having a type rating without experience does not mean your chances of getting a job will increase much.
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Thanks to everyone for their replies! much appreciated.
Skipname - I've done some research based on what you've said about doing my training in Eastern Europe - I've found an Integrated course with the school 'OAA' or 'Olympus Aviation academy' where I believe they are charging around 50,000 euros for the course. not bad eh?
OAA-Integrated Zero To ATPL - Olympus Aviation Academy, Thessaloniki, Greece.
Seems as though I can do an integrated in another country for the same price a a modular here in the UK.
When you say: "Don't pay for a type rating" - How would I get around this if companies like ryanair/easyjet and many more are giving you a conditional FO job offer on the conditions that you pay for a type rating out of your own pocket?
Thanks!
Skipname - I've done some research based on what you've said about doing my training in Eastern Europe - I've found an Integrated course with the school 'OAA' or 'Olympus Aviation academy' where I believe they are charging around 50,000 euros for the course. not bad eh?
OAA-Integrated Zero To ATPL - Olympus Aviation Academy, Thessaloniki, Greece.
Seems as though I can do an integrated in another country for the same price a a modular here in the UK.
When you say: "Don't pay for a type rating" - How would I get around this if companies like ryanair/easyjet and many more are giving you a conditional FO job offer on the conditions that you pay for a type rating out of your own pocket?
Thanks!
Educated Hillbilly
Skipname,
I don't like to post anything derogatory but you post is quite unsubstantiated. I have known numerous people who have self funded speculative type ratings and for the majority this had kick started their flying careers, a good number of these examples are from the 06-08 era when times were better. However I still know a handful of people who have recently obtained employment with speculative ratings in the last 18 months. Some of these people had also been instructors, who had realised instructional hours alone were not going to progress then anywhere.
Yes a speculative rating is a gamble, some don't get employed but for those that do they are normally far better off than someone who had gone the instructional route or some other GA based hour building activity.
It is true for some people the instructional route does lead to that lucky break, while in previous years this was a given it is now the minority. There are good number of instructors that have been stuck full time instructing recently who are going no where. I know GA flying also encompasses other things outside of instructing but in the UK these jobs are quite rare (para dropping, glider towing) so for the majority GA means instructing.
Also if anyone has the choice of self funding a rating or a common type or accepting a bond and a low salary on a rare type, then if they can afford to fund the rating is still the better option (speaking from experience getting laid off with a low number of hours on a rare type doesn't leave you in a good situation). Don't assume a bond is necessarily a better or worse deal than a sstr.
I would say you have to pick the route that suits your circumstances best, if going full time instructing means you are taking anything more than a 20,000 plus pay cut then you are still better sticking to part time instructing using the income from the full time job to fund either a rating or useful flight time (twin hour building, IFR touring into Europe in a complex single).
For the original poster he (possibly she) will have a very good chance of securing well(ish) paid employment as an engineer, so when it comes to the point that the CPL / IR can be funded he/she will find a type rating will be financially the far more viable option than full time instructing.
Instructional hours or hours from some GA activity do have some value for hour building for insurance requirements or for getting the first 1000 hours towards an ATPL, but it is rare these days that instructional hours / SEP hours alone will progress you. Even someone wishing to progress down the career instructing route will need to spend reasonable amounts adding the additional ratings to the basic FI(A).
The main reason the industry is going down is not because of self funded type ratings (British Midland and BAC express were doing self funded ratings years before Ryanair were on the scene), it is going down hill because there is no minimum educational requirement to enter pilot training to limit the candidate numbers. I don't believe that an academically able person is any better a pilot it is sometimes you just need an artificial barrier to enter a profession to keep terms and conditions high.
I don't like to post anything derogatory but you post is quite unsubstantiated. I have known numerous people who have self funded speculative type ratings and for the majority this had kick started their flying careers, a good number of these examples are from the 06-08 era when times were better. However I still know a handful of people who have recently obtained employment with speculative ratings in the last 18 months. Some of these people had also been instructors, who had realised instructional hours alone were not going to progress then anywhere.
Yes a speculative rating is a gamble, some don't get employed but for those that do they are normally far better off than someone who had gone the instructional route or some other GA based hour building activity.
It is true for some people the instructional route does lead to that lucky break, while in previous years this was a given it is now the minority. There are good number of instructors that have been stuck full time instructing recently who are going no where. I know GA flying also encompasses other things outside of instructing but in the UK these jobs are quite rare (para dropping, glider towing) so for the majority GA means instructing.
Also if anyone has the choice of self funding a rating or a common type or accepting a bond and a low salary on a rare type, then if they can afford to fund the rating is still the better option (speaking from experience getting laid off with a low number of hours on a rare type doesn't leave you in a good situation). Don't assume a bond is necessarily a better or worse deal than a sstr.
I would say you have to pick the route that suits your circumstances best, if going full time instructing means you are taking anything more than a 20,000 plus pay cut then you are still better sticking to part time instructing using the income from the full time job to fund either a rating or useful flight time (twin hour building, IFR touring into Europe in a complex single).
For the original poster he (possibly she) will have a very good chance of securing well(ish) paid employment as an engineer, so when it comes to the point that the CPL / IR can be funded he/she will find a type rating will be financially the far more viable option than full time instructing.
Instructional hours or hours from some GA activity do have some value for hour building for insurance requirements or for getting the first 1000 hours towards an ATPL, but it is rare these days that instructional hours / SEP hours alone will progress you. Even someone wishing to progress down the career instructing route will need to spend reasonable amounts adding the additional ratings to the basic FI(A).
The main reason the industry is going down is not because of self funded type ratings (British Midland and BAC express were doing self funded ratings years before Ryanair were on the scene), it is going down hill because there is no minimum educational requirement to enter pilot training to limit the candidate numbers. I don't believe that an academically able person is any better a pilot it is sometimes you just need an artificial barrier to enter a profession to keep terms and conditions high.
Last edited by portsharbourflyer; 11th Jan 2014 at 20:51.
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it is going down hill because there is no minimum educational requirement to enter pilot training to limit the candidate numbers. I don't believe that an academically able person is any better a pilot it is sometime you just need an artificial barrier to enter a profession to keep terms and conditions high.
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honestly 50k won't be enough
I wouldn't go integrated at all, unless you're on a cadetship
I don't believe that an academically able person is any better a pilot
Get a job in the general aviation for a year or two and you will improve your flying skills a lot
But don't believe this:-
and now earn in the region of 3.5k a month and have only been an FO for a few months, and the money will only get better.
I wonder.
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I started in engineering and while i got my private certificate during last year of school, slowly added ratings as cash allowed, and continued working in the field for 2 1/2 years after obtaining CFI.
My comment would be don't get too wedded to the paycheck to quit.... if conditions are good for instruction work, or other fast time-building, go for it!
Another thing you might try, since you have a few years of schooling yet, is to (if geographically convenient) get a glider rating at a club. Learn to fly a wing without the distraction of a noisy fire hazard(engine), meet people including airline-types in the club, watch, learn, listen..... your later A.S.E.L. training will go MUCH smoother as you will already be a pilot.
My comment would be don't get too wedded to the paycheck to quit.... if conditions are good for instruction work, or other fast time-building, go for it!
Another thing you might try, since you have a few years of schooling yet, is to (if geographically convenient) get a glider rating at a club. Learn to fly a wing without the distraction of a noisy fire hazard(engine), meet people including airline-types in the club, watch, learn, listen..... your later A.S.E.L. training will go MUCH smoother as you will already be a pilot.
Educated Hillbilly
727gm,
Remember our original poster is UK based. Here in Europe there has been increasing trend for airlines to give less credit to instructional hours, a number of the operators that took self improvers ten or 15 years back are now only taking low timers from CTC or Oxford.
In the US the 1500 hour rule means there isn't a choice people will have to instruct or do some other GA based activity to build the time, which is not a bad thing as it will limit the applicants available for jobs on FAR 25 aircraft. Further the new EASA rules make it very difficult for new instructors to get the EASA equivalent of a CFII.
Depone,
I more wanted to say that while an academic background may have benefits, there are still a number of naturally good pilots who aren't academic types, a high academic entry may preclude some of these individuals, but on the other hand there are also some individuals who have a good aptitude for flying who can't raise the necessary funds. So any entry requirement will always be to an extent unfair to one group; but I would rather the barrier favoured the intelligent rather than the rich.
Remember our original poster is UK based. Here in Europe there has been increasing trend for airlines to give less credit to instructional hours, a number of the operators that took self improvers ten or 15 years back are now only taking low timers from CTC or Oxford.
In the US the 1500 hour rule means there isn't a choice people will have to instruct or do some other GA based activity to build the time, which is not a bad thing as it will limit the applicants available for jobs on FAR 25 aircraft. Further the new EASA rules make it very difficult for new instructors to get the EASA equivalent of a CFII.
Depone,
I more wanted to say that while an academic background may have benefits, there are still a number of naturally good pilots who aren't academic types, a high academic entry may preclude some of these individuals, but on the other hand there are also some individuals who have a good aptitude for flying who can't raise the necessary funds. So any entry requirement will always be to an extent unfair to one group; but I would rather the barrier favoured the intelligent rather than the rich.
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Your story!
I'm 15 and dream of being a commercial pilot and since you guys already made it that far I would love to hear how you did it because I have no idea which path to take.
Thanks
Thanks
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I think you are wise to go the Engineering route, have another trade up your sleeve. I left engineering college in 1992 with BTEC, my first engineering job was a airframe/engine mechanic at a flying club, I then progressed onto helicopters/biz jets/ heavies. Got my first flying job in 1999, by which time I had 500 hours TT. I got the flying job because I could help out in the hangar! Stayed with that company for 3 years, finishing off flying twins( the mighty BN2 islander). Next job was in the Caribbean as chief pilot on piston twins, and even then I would help out in the hangar.Since then I have flown turbo props, heavy jets and now biz jets. Engineering has certainly helped me along the way. I say to any newby pilot, go to your local flying club and try and help out in the hangar.
I was very very lucky. I got a place on the first course at the College of Air Training at Hamble where we did all the flying training for our licences and more.
From there I went straight into BOAC. I then did two years on Britannia 312s navigating to get a Flight Navigators Licence, followed by a course onto VC10s in 1964.
All paid for by BOAC. How lucky can you get?
From there I went straight into BOAC. I then did two years on Britannia 312s navigating to get a Flight Navigators Licence, followed by a course onto VC10s in 1964.
All paid for by BOAC. How lucky can you get?
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^^^ Very lucky indeed....sigh...I been reading ' Fate is the Hunter' & I have to admit, that book (coupled with your post) has got me seriously considering a type rating course on a Flying Time Machine 
Would love to just head back to the Golden era & experience all the luscious freebies ( not to forget all the hair raising adventures) & glory aviation had to offer back then!
Would love to just head back to the Golden era & experience all the luscious freebies ( not to forget all the hair raising adventures) & glory aviation had to offer back then!
The hosties were rather comely too:-
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My story:
Late 2009: Completed traditional science and math A-Levels at Sixth Form.
Early 2010: Elected to go straight to Established FTO on Integrated Cadet Course.
Late 2011: Graduated from Established FTO with Foundation Degree.
....Job-hunting period commences....
Early 2012: Commenced part-time Uni Degree, and worked in Aviation company.
Late 2012: Established my own Company (Plan C) unrelated to Aviation.
Early 2013: Left Aviation company and worked in Flight Operations company, whilst building my own Company (Plan B) slowly.
Late 2013: Left Flight Operations company to run my own Company full-time.
Early 2014: Established further Company (I now run two companies).
A little time after that: Acquired my 1st Commercial Airline Pos. as FO.
....Job-hunting period finishes....
Hope that helps!
Late 2009: Completed traditional science and math A-Levels at Sixth Form.
Early 2010: Elected to go straight to Established FTO on Integrated Cadet Course.
Late 2011: Graduated from Established FTO with Foundation Degree.
....Job-hunting period commences....
Early 2012: Commenced part-time Uni Degree, and worked in Aviation company.
Late 2012: Established my own Company (Plan C) unrelated to Aviation.
Early 2013: Left Aviation company and worked in Flight Operations company, whilst building my own Company (Plan B) slowly.
Late 2013: Left Flight Operations company to run my own Company full-time.
Early 2014: Established further Company (I now run two companies).
A little time after that: Acquired my 1st Commercial Airline Pos. as FO.
....Job-hunting period finishes....
Hope that helps!
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Road to the 74
Hey there good luck to you my friend, I hope my story can inspire/be of use
I was born and raised in a rural country town in the states, I am very much a country boy at heart!
1989 - Left college and started my flight training, just pay as you go Modular route
1990 - 1998 - got my first job flying a C150 aerial photography and other odd jobs!! I did this for 8 years!!! can you imagine 8 years in a C150!! 3 engine failures, 1 of which was a fire in that time!
1998 - 2003 -Got a job on the beech 1900 delivering freight done this for 5 years! some of the story I could tell whilst in this role you would not believe me if I told you so I shall spare you this.
2003-2007 -Finally a job in the regionals flying the CRJ-200 for Delta did this for 3 years as FO then finally got a command but funnily enough after just 1 year as a commander I took a job in the Middle East!
2007 - Present - had a couple of years on the A320 and then finally got in to the 747 doing Cargo ops, its a good life, its a big plane and I am the PIC, but I am hoping to move on to the more modern 777 soon. there you go my life summed up in a matter of minutes!
I was born and raised in a rural country town in the states, I am very much a country boy at heart!
1989 - Left college and started my flight training, just pay as you go Modular route
1990 - 1998 - got my first job flying a C150 aerial photography and other odd jobs!! I did this for 8 years!!! can you imagine 8 years in a C150!! 3 engine failures, 1 of which was a fire in that time!
1998 - 2003 -Got a job on the beech 1900 delivering freight done this for 5 years! some of the story I could tell whilst in this role you would not believe me if I told you so I shall spare you this.
2003-2007 -Finally a job in the regionals flying the CRJ-200 for Delta did this for 3 years as FO then finally got a command but funnily enough after just 1 year as a commander I took a job in the Middle East!
2007 - Present - had a couple of years on the A320 and then finally got in to the 747 doing Cargo ops, its a good life, its a big plane and I am the PIC, but I am hoping to move on to the more modern 777 soon. there you go my life summed up in a matter of minutes!
