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My dream - advice please (collective thread)

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My dream - advice please (collective thread)

Old 16th May 2014, 06:57
  #81 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 11

Thanks for all the responses. In the 90s I was considering becoming a pilot but in the end decided not to go through with it due to the reasons everyone seem to be stating, i.e., high costs and difficulty getting a job. Instead I decided to go into finance where I could make more money and I have regretted it ever since. It is clearly not that easy to get a job once you have the license but some people must get them. Can't say I am doing this for financial reasons. Would be a lot better off continuing with what I am doing but not particularly happy. Worst case scenario is that I have spent a fair bit of money and have to go back to what I was doing before. At least I made a go at it.

I know this has been covered more or less in other threads but it is still a bit hard to get my head around it. I am considering FTE, OAA, and CTC as they are all used by BA for training their pilots. Prices and training seems pretty similar albeit in different locations. Is it the case that the airline industry consider the quality of training in these schools comparable?
KurtW is offline  
Old 16th May 2014, 07:35
  #82 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 40
Posts: 473
a few guys I know got themselves into pilot jobs through internal recruitment. One via cabin crew and used the money to get their cpl via modular route and the other as a dispatcher. Both roles put them in front of flight crew and gave them inside info on recruitment. As they were respected by the flight crews for what they were doing and how they were doing it the senior pilots put in some good words and levered the door open which gave them a chance to prove they were ready. I would say this works in either a smaller airline or a medium sized one at a smaller base as you get to know people. I can't see it working in big airlines that run very set recruitment policies.

I would explore the RAF, Navy and possibly the army (careful with that last one as you are a soldier first then a pilot)

Any parachuting near you? Maybe you can volunteer there. This may enable you to again work towards your CPL/PPL and get into the aircraft as a drop master or just to assist the pilot. Its all a start

good luck
bex88 is offline  
Old 16th May 2014, 12:49
  #83 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Blackburn
Age: 29
Posts: 2
Thank you for the replies.

I have considered all 3 of the armed forces. Like mentioned it is my fitness that is currently stopping me however the past week I have gone on runs around a local field as my leg has got slightly better since the accident.

I would say the RAF would be the best route for me as the Navy doesn't appeal as most of the time would be spent on ships even if as a pilot. The Army, you are a soldier first, however it does seem one of the easiest routes, especially as my qualifications mean I could potentially join up as an officer rather than commit 3 years to being a door gunner before having the opportunity to apply for a pilot vacancy. The RAF also seems to be the best out there for how you are generally treated.

Good shout with the parachuting, I know there are a few skydiving places just out of town so I could give them a shot. There's also a gliding club which is very cheap for flights and to learn to get a gliding licence so that could also be a possibility once transport is sorted out as I imagine someone with a gliders licence would get the edge over someone with no experience at all.
Tynado is offline  
Old 27th May 2014, 20:17
  #84 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Louisiana
Age: 28
Posts: 1
Need advise to get started!!

Hi, I'm Chris. I'm a 20yo college student (just completed 2 years) I am wanting to pursue a career as an airline pilot! I've done a good bit of research on it but can't seem to find out the possibly of me actually being able to become a pilot for a commercial airline(Southwest, AA, Delta ect.) I hear that most of those jobs are taken by the military. Military is not an option for me at this point and time in my life due to personal reasons. I just need to know where to start with this! Any help would be great guys!
Chris0799 is offline  
Old 27th May 2014, 22:57
  #85 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: England
Age: 28
Posts: 3
Pilot Advice

Hi there,

I am a wannabe pilot, hoping to start commence my journey through flight school, however I lack any of the inside knowledge into the industry and just shared experience from other pilots. So after attending Flyer Exhibitions and getting advice from flight schools it seems one of the common things to come out of them is to get pilot contacts, someone who can share experiences, give tips and some guidance. Now this is all well and good but none of these people advised me on where to start with getting these contacts. So my main question here is where would be a good place to start?
I was speaking with some people who said i should approach pilots if ever i see some at an airport terminal but i feel this is the wrong way to go about it as they would not want to stand and chat whilst on there way to a flight. Plus it would look a bit odd!
I think it would help me just to have contact with a real pilot so I could get some advice and hear real life experiences.

Let me know what you all think!

Willestone is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 11:07
  #86 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Malta
Age: 28
Posts: 4
Angel Aspiring Pilot need some guidance!

Hey everyone,
This is my first thread on here. Just like most of the people on this forum, my ultimate dream is to finally become an airline pilot. Right now I am studying for my Bachelors degree with Honours in Tourism Studies from the University of Malta and should be finishing next year. However, this is more of a back up just in case my prospective career in piloting doesn't work out.

So, I just wanted to ask for some guidance in achieving all my licenses from people who have actually gone through all the trials and tribulations that accompany the journey to becoming a pilot.

Just like most people, I was contemplating the age old question of " Modular Vs Integrated" , and I think I have opted for the modular route. However the problem is, only having one national airline in Malta (Air Malta, which doesn't employ many pilots being a relatively small airline) , obtaining a job on my own might be more difficult than it is in other countries. Opposed to this, integrated offer aid in obtaining an interview with airlines however are exponentially more expensive (CTC being around 86k STERLING compared to Diamond Aviation school here in Malta offering all licenses for around 70k EUROS in total done modularly). What are your opinions on this?

Also, regarding funding, i would definitely have to take a loan for most (if not all) of the costs. Repayments on this would be over 1k a month I'd imagine. Considering the average starting salary with a degree over here is around 1.3k a month, that seems impossible. Scholarships nowadays are scarce and have been contacting countless airlines and private companies asking about potential sponsorships to no avail. I am telling you all this so as to maybe obtain a bit of insight regarding what all the pilots on this forum did to cope with the payments. Any advice would be IMMENSELY appreciated. Thanks in advance!
sgmattsg is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 12:24
  #87 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Vietnam
Posts: 1,243

What do you want us to tell you? To go for it and follow your dream?

You have to be realistic. You said yourself you cant make the payments if you don't get a job pretty much straight away. You also haven't factored in paying for your own type rating or living expenses whilst away if you go to a school outside of Malta.

There is no easy way into it. Unless you can afford to lose 100k Euro in a failed attempt to become a pilot you shouldn't even try.

There are HUNDREDS of modular and integrated CPL graduates scattered all over Europe trying to get one of the very few jobs on offer to low timers.

Now isn't the time to take the leap.
pilotchute is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 13:31
  #88 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Malta
Age: 28
Posts: 4
Don't worry... wasn't expecting any particular answer from you collectively. As i said, i just wanted to hear other people's experiences. I am being very realistic trust me, as I have been doing everything in my power to see what I can do (if anything) to potentially make this dream a reality.

So please don't misunderstand me, in no way am i trying to make myself believe that this seemingly impossible venture is a simple journey, in fact, quite the contrary. However, I am a very strong believer in "where there's a will there's a way". So I thought other people's constructive insight might be of beneficial aid to me. Thanks for your reply.
sgmattsg is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 14:10
  #89 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Somerset
Posts: 418
Air Malta is not your only option, there is also AirX in Malta who have recently been offering 2 year apprenticeships to low hours people who already have CPL and MEIR with a company funded type rating on one of their biz jets on completion of the apprenticeship. I don’t personally know much about AirX or the apprenticeship scheme but you would have to hope that when you complete training they will be offering the apprenticeship and will favour a local like yourself. It might be worth you paying them a visit and trying to land (no pun intended) some non flying job with them and train for your licence when not rostered for work, if you get on well they might look favourably on you when you have your licence.

Failing that you may have to leave Malta to another country or another continent in search of your first flying job.

The advice from pilotchute is absolutely correct, embarking on training is a massive gamble with your money at stake and you should never gamble what you cannot afford to lose. Please do not tie yourself down to a massive loan with your (or someone else’s) property as security without a secure Plan B to bring in money if you don’t get a flying job quickly, to do such a thing with current recruitment prospects would be truly insane.

Good luck to you whatever you decide to do.
magicmick is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 14:12
  #90 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 274
Find a sponsorship deal with one of the companies providing it.
Otherwise, just let it go. At least for now.
You don´t have money to pay for it and there are no pilot jobs.

Otherwise, I would suggest to go through US, where you can do instructing and get 1000hrs.
cefey is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2014, 14:21
  #91 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Malta
Age: 28
Posts: 4
Thanks for your replies!

I understand that it is a very costly venture, and unfortunately I don't have "mummy and daddy"'s money to gamble away. However, in light of this, might just continue to do my masters in business over here as it isn't too costly. That way I'd have somewhat of a good chance to get a good job should I not be able to find a piloting job immediately. What do you think?

Magicmick, I have tried to contact AirX via email, but I received no reply. I might just have to schedule a visit and talk to them face to face. Working with them and training gradually would be a great situation to be in, should it be available.

Cefey, that's what I'm trying to do but as you probably know, sponsorship deals aren't plentiful nowadays and can't really find any that apply to me. I have to disagree with your "let it go" advice though. Postpone it, maybe.... let it go? Never.
sgmattsg is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2014, 08:53
  #92 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Malta
Age: 28
Posts: 4
You're right Yes I have taken the padding into consideration because just like you said... anything can happen. However, fortunately, here in Malta we're blessed with good whether for the major part of the year. But yes I am aware of all the "extra" charges that might come to the surface during training
sgmattsg is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2014, 17:17
  #93 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 36
Reality Check Required 2

I recently posted the following on another thread, but think it relevant here.
Please read and seriously consider; this is not the time to spend the equivalent of £100k, without a reasonable prospect of future employment. There is also now the reality that the previous options of instructing and a job on a propeller aircraft could soon, if not already, be a career cul-de-sac. There are too many airlines requiring a valid Type Rating on the jet type which they operate. Be VERY careful about embarking upon a self-selected training course. CTC have an outstanding record of placement, but in order to gain a place on the their 'Wings' programme, and be 'tagged', you will have to pass their strict assessment procedure.
Good luck in your endeavors, but consider all previous advice on this thread.

Reality Check Required
Whilst I appreciate that many self sponsored pilots who achieved fATPL/IR qualification have, in the past, managed to secure flying positions with major UK airlines, both of the legacy and low cost type, the recruiting position is now far more problematical.
The very limited places available on each year's BA FPP program ensure that they can recruit both the most suitable, those most likely to complete the demanding course and, importantly, those whom they consider will have little difficulty during their ensuing careers in passing recurrent checks and conversion courses.
The majority of those who have been selected by BA are not enthusiastic teenagers (as I once was), but those with established and well remunerated careers. They still have the enthusiasm but were prepared to forego commercial flying until BA launched their scheme in 2011. The integrated / tagged courses with the three major training providers gave similar employment prospects to their successful candidates.
As I have tried to impress upon those thinking of embarking on a SELF SPONSORED integrated or modular course - you are by definition SELF SELECTED. Sadly the schools may consider you trainable - that does not make you employable. The unemployable (by major airlines) are distorting the market and having to face the reality of no flying job and a massive loan repayment. If you are considered to be the 'Right Stuff' by a major airline, you will be tagged for a course or offered a place on a version of BA's FPP. If you embark on professional licence training in the current climate without such assurances you will have only yourself to blame if you fail to find employment upon qualifying / graduating.
If you are prepared to accept the reality, you can still have a wonderfully successful career in an entirely different and rewarding field and still enjoy the benefits of a PPL, possibly owning your own or a share in an aircraft. There can be few, if any, other occupations in which so many have qualified who thereafter find themselves among the long term unemployed.
Good luck, but please be realistic. This is a time to let your head rule your heart.
FullTanks is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2014, 08:06
  #94 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Somerset
Posts: 418
Tagged Scheme

john smith makes some very sobering and very valid points, as they speak from a position of experience and knowledge within the industry then prospective pilots would do well to heed their advice.

While the airline tagged courses are the best option at the moment there are absolutely no guarantees linked to them. The cadets will bear the financial risk as very few if any airlines now pay for the cadet training (pre 911 they used to) and they will be under constant pressure during the course to maintain minimum standards set by the airline (eg 1st time passes in all written exams with a high average and 1st time passes in all skills tests on minimum hours) failure to maintain the required standard will mean removal from the scheme.

Assuming the cadet finishes the course to the required standard and graduates, there will be no guarantee of a job with the airline, if the airline happens to be laying pilots off at the time the cadet graduates from training they might be offered work in another department or just abandoned.

If another recession or another 911 happens (god forbid) the airline will reserve the right to cease the tagged scheme leaving cadets high and dry. When 911 happened there were cadets for several airlines (including BA) going through their courses and many were dropped almost immediately.

Finally even integrated FTOs with tagged cadets on course can got bust, not so long ago we had PTC and Cabair go down with all students (tagged or non-tagged) losing all money paid to the school. At the time there were Flybe cadets at Cabair who had the following choice:

Move to another FTO (approved by Flybe) and self-fund the remainder of their training (which they’d already paid Cabair for) and then join Flybe.

Forfeit their place on the course and walk away from professional flying.

Not a pleasant situation especially if you have paid up front for an integrated course and you’re only a few months in when the FTO goes under and you have to find the money to fund another complete course of training.

I have read elsewhere on PPRuNe some speculation from usually well informed contributors (not trolls) that at least one of the big three integrated schools is in serious financial trouble. I don’t know which one or how true the speculation is but it was written by more than one contributor who normally contributes reliable information from inside the industry.

Any tagged scheme cadet contract will be cleverly written by lawyers who listened at school and will place all risk squarely on the cadet with 100 ways to be removed from the course and only 1 way to get through to the RHS of an aircraft.

Despite this the cadet schemes are viewed as such wonderful opportunities which is more a sad reflection on the current recruitment market and opportunities for ab-initio trainees.
magicmick is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2014, 15:39
  #95 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: europe
Age: 37
Posts: 4
Go or not to go ?

check mp

the best is to get plan B

Last edited by echofly; 9th Mar 2015 at 15:05.
echofly is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2014, 16:02
  #96 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Greece
Age: 26
Posts: 9
The Journey after aquiring your EASA frozen ATPL license

Dear Friends,
I am 18 years old and am going to pursue this career. I would like to get some advice and your experiences as what problems did you''ll face and what steps are to be taken after the training and aquiring the frozen license.

I thank you all very much in advance.
ThePilot007 is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2014, 03:22
  #97 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 97
Advice - chasing the dream

Hello, I've been recently accepted in Oxford Aviation however my first preference is CTC to get on the Qatar Airways programme, I've done a lot research on the airline and life in the middle haven previously visited dubai I've had a taste of the middle east.
I was hoping someone could give me some advice on the entrance exam into CTC?
i'm 18, i've recently left school, no interest in going to uni wanted to be a pilot from a very young age, I've cousin flying for Fly Emirates who done the same as myself so all the advice i get is needed and appreciated thanks
Byrne11 is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2014, 16:01
  #98 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Lx
Posts: 2
What is the best path?

Hello all,

Well this will be my frist post, and i hope the first of many's.
I will be the first one (maybe) that comes here and say, my dream is not becoming an airline pilot, but an astronaut, i know its crazy .
So since NASA prefers someone with flying experience, i think i will need to start my trainig in this area.
Right now im at university studing physics in astronomy & astrophysics and almost finishing my course.
SO what i want with this post is someone who can tell me what is the best path to follow.
I already know that exists PPL CPL and ATPL, and the courses are expensive as hell =/

I was thinking to start in PPL at a groundschool, in my country, then start building hours and at the same time studying for ATPL (modular way).

Any suggestions?

PS: I Live in Portugal
spacemen is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2014, 19:10
  #99 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Dublin
Posts: 1
Where to go after Private Pilot License Training


I am in the process of deciding where to complete my PPL training, yet before I make any decisions on where to invest my money I first wanted to find out what routes may be available to achieve a CPL or job with an airline through a Cadetship scheme or otherwise. I know it may seem pessimistic to look at it in this way but I have to face the harsh reality that its an expensive and lucrative path to becoming an airline pilot.

I have a massive interest in Aviation itself and have completed a degree in Aviation Technology in DIT. I have also just completed my Class 1 medical and feel that before age becomes a major factor I need to start pushing on with my training as I am now 22 and may have another few years training to do before I reach the top of the ladder.

I have checked a number of Cadetship Programmes, looked at the possibility of entering the Air Corps and also achieving a PPL and then looking to join a company such as West Atlantic. I just want to know that if these options fail me can I do anything else to reach the eventual goal???

Many thanks to all in advance!!
Matthew024 is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2014, 21:25
  #100 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: amman
Age: 36
Posts: 1
Neurosurgeon Who wants to be a pilot

hello everyone
it is all about pursuing your dream , your passion . life is too short thus i decided to start following my heart FINALLY after all of those years and i hope im not too late . I will be 29 next September . Im a Neurosurgical Resident i've already finished 3 years of my residency program and i still have 3 years to go . i have many questions hope that you guys can help me to take the right decision . First will the airlines companies consider me being a doctor as an advantage when i apply for a Job .secondly the most famous question am i too old to start my training . hope to hear from you guys soon
r9z is offline  

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