Views on the job market and low-hour job possibilities.
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Low hours - Job possibilities?
Hi all,
All the attempts to search have thrown up very little....
Have any of you got advice for those of us with few hours on a fresh CPL/IR and want to get in the air, requirements, who to contact and where to start the research;
eg.
Co-Pilot Exec Jets
Banner Towing
Flight instruction
Etc.
Thanks in advance
Quicksilver
All the attempts to search have thrown up very little....
Have any of you got advice for those of us with few hours on a fresh CPL/IR and want to get in the air, requirements, who to contact and where to start the research;
eg.
Co-Pilot Exec Jets
Banner Towing
Flight instruction
Etc.
Thanks in advance
Quicksilver
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You must have been reading my mind!! I'm thinking about embarking on an integrated ATPL course at the end of the year and at the end of it I'll be lucky if I come away with a total of 350 hours (taking into account what I've got from my PPL already). Over the past few weeks I've been looking at airline requirements for pilot recruitment and the minimum experience seems to be around 1000hrs!!
I find it hard to believe that everyone becomes a Flight Instructor etc straight after qualifying with a Frozen ATPL but as you say how else can you gain the flying experience!?! I'll watch this thread with interest........
It's a crazy old world we're throwing ourselves into................all the best mate!
I find it hard to believe that everyone becomes a Flight Instructor etc straight after qualifying with a Frozen ATPL but as you say how else can you gain the flying experience!?! I'll watch this thread with interest........
It's a crazy old world we're throwing ourselves into................all the best mate!
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I could tell you but then Id have to kill you.
This isnt much help I know, but jobs are very hard to find. If I knew of someone looking for a low hour pilot I would be keeping it to myself. Times are tough gentleman, as Im sure you are aware. Get me a job and Ill spill the beans.
MAX
MAX
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Max,
Thanks for your reply, but I was looking for guidence more than names and addresses.
It's a difficult path getting the qualifications, but at least it's well documented....
If anyone has the benefit of experience in this, please pass it on and we'll do the same when we've got there.
Cheers
Quicksilver.
Thanks for your reply, but I was looking for guidence more than names and addresses.
It's a difficult path getting the qualifications, but at least it's well documented....
If anyone has the benefit of experience in this, please pass it on and we'll do the same when we've got there.
Cheers
Quicksilver.
Try running a search - this generalised topic has come up in many different forms over the years.
WWW
WWW
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If you are 34 or under it's worth trying CTC Aviation. They have had some good advertising benefit from this forum recently, use the search facility.
CTC Aviation
Instructing is arguably the better route to take. You are going to gather so much more knowledge and experience this way than temping or pursuing a non flying stop gap role. Unfortunately since September an awful lot of CPL/IR graduates have gained FIC ratings and the job market for instructors is perhaps as lean as it is for airline work.
Maybe the ideal solution is to instruct at weekends - always more requirement than weekdays - and work Monday to Friday in a job that is more likely to pay off your debts.
For what it's worth, I went down the instructor route and, if I had my time again, would do the same.
Good Luck!
CTC Aviation
Instructing is arguably the better route to take. You are going to gather so much more knowledge and experience this way than temping or pursuing a non flying stop gap role. Unfortunately since September an awful lot of CPL/IR graduates have gained FIC ratings and the job market for instructors is perhaps as lean as it is for airline work.
Maybe the ideal solution is to instruct at weekends - always more requirement than weekdays - and work Monday to Friday in a job that is more likely to pay off your debts.
For what it's worth, I went down the instructor route and, if I had my time again, would do the same.
Good Luck!
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Quicksilver,
As is quite often the case, getting that elusive first job isn't easy. One thing it is not, however, is impossible. The first thing to have in your mind is exactly why it is you want to get into this profession. It is NOT about glamour, money and the like but more a fundamental love of aviation and all the crappy bits associated with it. Enough said...the important factor is get organized and get busy!
A few points that may help:
1/ Keep a file on every name, phone no. and address you apply to. In this rapidly changing world of aviation it is not uncommon to be writing to the same person twice with two different company’s. As for addresses etc..well they are all out there, the internet, Flight Int. guide...etc...etc.
2/ Personal reference is everything...more so than hours in SOME cases. Don't burn bridges..You'll soon realise what a tiny community exists in aviation. If your intro letter starts of...I am writing on the advice of my good friend Capt......It WILL get read.
3/ Follow up and track every letter. 99 times out of 100 nothing other than a curt response is what you'll get. Persevere. You'll swing an interview eventually.
4/ Attend the seminars, join the unions, keep on the web and read the back pages of Flight Int. WHS.
5/ Don't rule out the flying instructors route. I vowed never to do this...turned out to be an absolute blast and paved a quick route to a jet job...AFTER Sept.11th.
6/ Be careful of flying for peanuts for some dodgy single-pilot outfit to gain "experience"....is it really worth the stress (you've worked hard for the license already)...and what use is zillions of single pilot hours when what you really want is multi-crew job.
7/ Keep the faith...things are improving all the time...remember why it was you wanted to be a pilot (and don't say 'cause it's the uniform and hosties!).
Lot's more I could add but hope that helps...
Good Luck!!
As is quite often the case, getting that elusive first job isn't easy. One thing it is not, however, is impossible. The first thing to have in your mind is exactly why it is you want to get into this profession. It is NOT about glamour, money and the like but more a fundamental love of aviation and all the crappy bits associated with it. Enough said...the important factor is get organized and get busy!
A few points that may help:
1/ Keep a file on every name, phone no. and address you apply to. In this rapidly changing world of aviation it is not uncommon to be writing to the same person twice with two different company’s. As for addresses etc..well they are all out there, the internet, Flight Int. guide...etc...etc.
2/ Personal reference is everything...more so than hours in SOME cases. Don't burn bridges..You'll soon realise what a tiny community exists in aviation. If your intro letter starts of...I am writing on the advice of my good friend Capt......It WILL get read.
3/ Follow up and track every letter. 99 times out of 100 nothing other than a curt response is what you'll get. Persevere. You'll swing an interview eventually.
4/ Attend the seminars, join the unions, keep on the web and read the back pages of Flight Int. WHS.
5/ Don't rule out the flying instructors route. I vowed never to do this...turned out to be an absolute blast and paved a quick route to a jet job...AFTER Sept.11th.
6/ Be careful of flying for peanuts for some dodgy single-pilot outfit to gain "experience"....is it really worth the stress (you've worked hard for the license already)...and what use is zillions of single pilot hours when what you really want is multi-crew job.
7/ Keep the faith...things are improving all the time...remember why it was you wanted to be a pilot (and don't say 'cause it's the uniform and hosties!).
Lot's more I could add but hope that helps...
Good Luck!!
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I go along 100% with featherman. Even in the current climate there are opportunities out there for the dedicated.
Quicksilver. You are lucky that you live and work in America - I wholeheartedly suggest getting your CFI and working in that position for a year or so. Even in the current 'climate' there is loads of hours to be had teaching in the states, whereas over here in Europe the same can not be said. In a year or so you can make over a 1000 hours, and if you can get your MEI and get some twin hours then when the regionals start hiring again next year then you will be in a good position.
I instructed for 18 months in the US before returning to the UK last summer, and since 11 Sep I have had 3 interviews, finally succeeding recently in getting a place with CTC on the ATP scheme.
Good Luck, be patient and work your butt off - you will succeed.
Quicksilver. You are lucky that you live and work in America - I wholeheartedly suggest getting your CFI and working in that position for a year or so. Even in the current 'climate' there is loads of hours to be had teaching in the states, whereas over here in Europe the same can not be said. In a year or so you can make over a 1000 hours, and if you can get your MEI and get some twin hours then when the regionals start hiring again next year then you will be in a good position.
I instructed for 18 months in the US before returning to the UK last summer, and since 11 Sep I have had 3 interviews, finally succeeding recently in getting a place with CTC on the ATP scheme.
Good Luck, be patient and work your butt off - you will succeed.
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Views on the job market
I like 99.99% of others are watching the job market with interest, hoping that those laid off post 9.11 were being picked up by the airlines that now find themselves with expanding routes, renewed customer confidence etc etc.
I had the view that eventually(soon) they would all be re-employed and that the regionals would start to pickup those of us near the bottom of the chain(once again) and things would start to look a little more hopeful for us all. But alas no, after receiving another round of rejection letters I had a ring around the few contacts at the airlines I have, and the answer I seem to be getting is that they still have a large number of C.V's on file from the more qualified type rated people around us.
I posted somewhat naively the other day that Virgin had just announced that they intend to recruit 300 staff into various non flying positions and that things were starting to improve. Where in fact Virgin that very day were waving bye bye to the first 744 f/o's to be made redundant.
So to my questions and points:
1) How many type rated people are still looking for work?
2) How many people are employed but have redundancy notices hanging over them?
3) i'm fairly lucky to have an instructor job and continue to fly for little personnal expense but for the usual renewals, how are those out there with 200hrs CPL/I.R funding your flying and managing to stay current?
I have to admit that I was fairly sceptical of other peoples views regarding wannabees putting off training for the CPL at this difficult time, but I now find myself in total agreement because I am watching students study,train,pass and then join the queue for jobs with quite substantial debt when in fact the market IMHO is still swamped with highly qualified individuals.
Thoughts and views most appreciated
I had the view that eventually(soon) they would all be re-employed and that the regionals would start to pickup those of us near the bottom of the chain(once again) and things would start to look a little more hopeful for us all. But alas no, after receiving another round of rejection letters I had a ring around the few contacts at the airlines I have, and the answer I seem to be getting is that they still have a large number of C.V's on file from the more qualified type rated people around us.
I posted somewhat naively the other day that Virgin had just announced that they intend to recruit 300 staff into various non flying positions and that things were starting to improve. Where in fact Virgin that very day were waving bye bye to the first 744 f/o's to be made redundant.
So to my questions and points:
1) How many type rated people are still looking for work?
2) How many people are employed but have redundancy notices hanging over them?
3) i'm fairly lucky to have an instructor job and continue to fly for little personnal expense but for the usual renewals, how are those out there with 200hrs CPL/I.R funding your flying and managing to stay current?
I have to admit that I was fairly sceptical of other peoples views regarding wannabees putting off training for the CPL at this difficult time, but I now find myself in total agreement because I am watching students study,train,pass and then join the queue for jobs with quite substantial debt when in fact the market IMHO is still swamped with highly qualified individuals.
Thoughts and views most appreciated
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This subject has been discussed in infinitessimal detail over the last few months, and a search will quickly uncover the major relevant threads.
Nothing has changed to alter our (the Pprune Wannabes professional staff) view that it would be 18 months to two years after 9/11 before any significant easing up of the job market took place - world wide. The numbers made unemployed (about 10% of the free world's airline pilot workforce) are just too large to be easily reabsorbed. Any resussitated or new routes will use up the maximum availabe productivity of both remaining crews and aircraft before a large-scale re-employment of those laid off can be countenanced by the accountants. That is some way off - in Virgin's case, we lost 255 flight crew. Since the beginning of this year, the projection of the crew numbers required has not altered significantly, but through early retirement, voluntary redundancy and part-time working, about 40 have been retrieved from compulsory redundancy. That leaves 125 pilots (the other 90 are flight engineers, who are in a far worse predicament) still to be reabsorbed - and not very many of them have found alternative employment.
This picture is reflected throughout the industry. In the meantime, God knows (as does WWW) how many have graduated from flight schools, and how many more have entered training. I would guess that somewhere around 2500 qualified pilots - CPL and above - are currently looking for work in UK. I would estimate that there will be no more than 150 UK airline flight deck jobs available this year. You do the sums.
Nothing has changed to alter our (the Pprune Wannabes professional staff) view that it would be 18 months to two years after 9/11 before any significant easing up of the job market took place - world wide. The numbers made unemployed (about 10% of the free world's airline pilot workforce) are just too large to be easily reabsorbed. Any resussitated or new routes will use up the maximum availabe productivity of both remaining crews and aircraft before a large-scale re-employment of those laid off can be countenanced by the accountants. That is some way off - in Virgin's case, we lost 255 flight crew. Since the beginning of this year, the projection of the crew numbers required has not altered significantly, but through early retirement, voluntary redundancy and part-time working, about 40 have been retrieved from compulsory redundancy. That leaves 125 pilots (the other 90 are flight engineers, who are in a far worse predicament) still to be reabsorbed - and not very many of them have found alternative employment.
This picture is reflected throughout the industry. In the meantime, God knows (as does WWW) how many have graduated from flight schools, and how many more have entered training. I would guess that somewhere around 2500 qualified pilots - CPL and above - are currently looking for work in UK. I would estimate that there will be no more than 150 UK airline flight deck jobs available this year. You do the sums.
Last edited by scroggs; 2nd May 2002 at 10:09.
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Interesting that this thread should be dropping out of sight while a stage-managed storm-in-a-teacup rages! Has no-one any further thoughts on this, rather important, topic?
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agree very important topic - to those concerned, including me!
Currently investigating a J1 visa to instruct, plus rather fancy going native after a long chat with a Belgian guy about flying around Africa.
Currently investigating a J1 visa to instruct, plus rather fancy going native after a long chat with a Belgian guy about flying around Africa.
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Well take it from me there's still work around. I got laid off from my instructing job post Sep 11 and felt pretty sorry for myself for a while there, as those of you who read my posts at the time might recall. There's about a 4 month gap in my log book for sure, but I never gave up on the job search ... and lo and behold about 6 weeks ago I hooked up with a lovely little job, flying some extremely well kitted out piston twins. It ain't my dream job but it's air transport, it's a damn sight better paid than the old instructing was, and it'll do me just nicely until some jet operator gets around to giving me the golden phone call 
No doubt it's going to take a while for the big boys to resume normal hiring ops as Scroggs says, but that doesn't mean that all we wannabes should go do nothing for the next couple of years. Even more than it was before, I say it should be business as usual for the out of work FATPL holder - there's only one way you're going to get a job in these tight times and that's get those CVs out there.
No doubt it's going to take a while for the big boys to resume normal hiring ops as Scroggs says, but that doesn't mean that all we wannabes should go do nothing for the next couple of years. Even more than it was before, I say it should be business as usual for the out of work FATPL holder - there's only one way you're going to get a job in these tight times and that's get those CVs out there.
Firstly, on a personal note, well done Luke - glad to see things worked out for you.
The original thread was job options for low time pilots in the UK.
My advice is to get a non-flying job with as high a pay as possible and to use that pay to retain currency on a decent sim.
Fly 4 hrs a month on a decent PNPT2 or better sim. Just fly a SID to and Airway then head for a STAR. Team up with another person in the same boat and be picky with one another about accuracy. Each time make it a Instrument procedure with which you are unfamiliar - just download one each time from the UK AIP online.
This will best serve you when it comes to sim ride time for yur first job. In the meantime you can network and build up information dossiers on target companies so when you get to that interview you can BLOW THEM AWAY when they ask - What do you know about us/why do you want to join.
Hell you've got 18 months - I would find out the names of the cleaners in that time.
As for the market. Well. I have put the figures on threads before - try searching for threads like "6 months on" or "an assessment of the job market" by me since 911.
I was just chatting in the pub last night to a friend of mine going through OATS at the moment. Its all quite depressing.
If you look at cancelled hiring, cadets that got the bullet plus redundancies the inital 911 hit was about 300 pilot positions. In the fallout months about the same numbers of line experienced pilots came onto the market. easyJet and Go and Ryanair hired about half that number leaving something like 300 line experienced guys out there.
Since 911 of course there have been new licences issued. In the order of 450 pilots have graduated from CPL IR courses since and I doubt more than a handful found work. A similar amount will find the same thing happening to them in the next 6 months.
There would already have been a couple of hundred low time pilots looking for work anyway and if you round everything up you get a picture of about 1500 pilots actively looking for work. You might easily reach Scroggs 2500 estimate if you allow for a couple of hundred guys in Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Holland, Scandanavia, Ireland et al, who can also come to the UK for work. It is very depressing for some Irish friends of mine with low time looking for work that Ryanair keep hiring dozens of new FO's from the Netherlands...
The whole industry has tightened its belt and crews are generally working harder than ever before thus some growth is negated by greater efficiency. A lot of hiring is now finished for the summer so it'll be at least another 6 months before you see much movement. A B737 type rating is extra-ordinarly useful at the moment with FRA,GOE,EZY,GB,Astraeus and Excel ALL hiring for that particular type...
I am certain that things will really pick up in two years time - aviation is going to go the same way as it is in the US and that means 20% sustained growth for the next decade to reach US like levels. Just wait until there is an easyJet France, and Ryanair Germany and - sadly - no longer a Go-Fly Spain operating at the same levels as in the UK... Business travellers are demanding frequency in smaller aircraft - that still need 2 pilots.
Long Haul is looking good as well. The internet is making freight be shipped half way accross the world to a consumer who wants it delivered in 24hrs. Huge business markets in Latin America and China are barely yet exploited. Long haul leisure travel is the preserve of the very rich Western countries at the moment. But boy is that going to change as super jumbos and deregulation drive down prices and Westernisation provides both the money and the cultural influences to make people from India holiday in Florida or people in Brazil take a week in London.
Every airport in europe is festooned with cranes and bulldozers. A lot of pilots who entered the profession in the last boom - the 1970's package holiday - are now in their 50's.
This is a growth industry and make no mistake about it.
However. Spending the next 2 years servicing a massive debt whilst eeking out a few single engine hours for badger all money is going to be pretty damn miserable. I feel for all the people in that position I really do.
Hence my advice at the top of this post.
Good luck,
Per Ardva Ad Astra as the airforce are keen on saying. Very true.
WWW
The original thread was job options for low time pilots in the UK.
My advice is to get a non-flying job with as high a pay as possible and to use that pay to retain currency on a decent sim.
Fly 4 hrs a month on a decent PNPT2 or better sim. Just fly a SID to and Airway then head for a STAR. Team up with another person in the same boat and be picky with one another about accuracy. Each time make it a Instrument procedure with which you are unfamiliar - just download one each time from the UK AIP online.
This will best serve you when it comes to sim ride time for yur first job. In the meantime you can network and build up information dossiers on target companies so when you get to that interview you can BLOW THEM AWAY when they ask - What do you know about us/why do you want to join.
Hell you've got 18 months - I would find out the names of the cleaners in that time.
As for the market. Well. I have put the figures on threads before - try searching for threads like "6 months on" or "an assessment of the job market" by me since 911.
I was just chatting in the pub last night to a friend of mine going through OATS at the moment. Its all quite depressing.
If you look at cancelled hiring, cadets that got the bullet plus redundancies the inital 911 hit was about 300 pilot positions. In the fallout months about the same numbers of line experienced pilots came onto the market. easyJet and Go and Ryanair hired about half that number leaving something like 300 line experienced guys out there.
Since 911 of course there have been new licences issued. In the order of 450 pilots have graduated from CPL IR courses since and I doubt more than a handful found work. A similar amount will find the same thing happening to them in the next 6 months.
There would already have been a couple of hundred low time pilots looking for work anyway and if you round everything up you get a picture of about 1500 pilots actively looking for work. You might easily reach Scroggs 2500 estimate if you allow for a couple of hundred guys in Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Holland, Scandanavia, Ireland et al, who can also come to the UK for work. It is very depressing for some Irish friends of mine with low time looking for work that Ryanair keep hiring dozens of new FO's from the Netherlands...
The whole industry has tightened its belt and crews are generally working harder than ever before thus some growth is negated by greater efficiency. A lot of hiring is now finished for the summer so it'll be at least another 6 months before you see much movement. A B737 type rating is extra-ordinarly useful at the moment with FRA,GOE,EZY,GB,Astraeus and Excel ALL hiring for that particular type...
I am certain that things will really pick up in two years time - aviation is going to go the same way as it is in the US and that means 20% sustained growth for the next decade to reach US like levels. Just wait until there is an easyJet France, and Ryanair Germany and - sadly - no longer a Go-Fly Spain operating at the same levels as in the UK... Business travellers are demanding frequency in smaller aircraft - that still need 2 pilots.
Long Haul is looking good as well. The internet is making freight be shipped half way accross the world to a consumer who wants it delivered in 24hrs. Huge business markets in Latin America and China are barely yet exploited. Long haul leisure travel is the preserve of the very rich Western countries at the moment. But boy is that going to change as super jumbos and deregulation drive down prices and Westernisation provides both the money and the cultural influences to make people from India holiday in Florida or people in Brazil take a week in London.
Every airport in europe is festooned with cranes and bulldozers. A lot of pilots who entered the profession in the last boom - the 1970's package holiday - are now in their 50's.
This is a growth industry and make no mistake about it.
However. Spending the next 2 years servicing a massive debt whilst eeking out a few single engine hours for badger all money is going to be pretty damn miserable. I feel for all the people in that position I really do.
Hence my advice at the top of this post.
Good luck,
Per Ardva Ad Astra as the airforce are keen on saying. Very true.
WWW
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I can’t disagree with anything that has been said above, and one thing’s for sure, it will be tough getting that first flying job.
I passed my IRT on 10th September last year, and I was hopeful that I could land a job within a year, now I know that it’s going to take another two or more years before I get a sniff, and there will be younger pilots (but perhaps not better) offering a perceived greater return on an airline’s investment than I.
However, my message is don’t let it get you down. I recently spent a few days holiday in New York (my first visit), and I visited Ground Zero. I don’t mind telling you that I shed a lot of tears. There is a tacit aura of sadness and despair around what is essentially a hole in the ground, but I also sensed a real resilience in the people around me, and a hope that the future would somehow be a better place.
Remember people, over 3500 souls were lost there, and there were many acts of heroism from people both alive and sadly now dead. How can I feel depressed about my situation? I’m alive and I have a future, and if my future sees me working on a flight deck of a jet then I shall thank my lucky stars, but if it doesn’t then I’ll not be bitter.
I passed my IRT on 10th September last year, and I was hopeful that I could land a job within a year, now I know that it’s going to take another two or more years before I get a sniff, and there will be younger pilots (but perhaps not better) offering a perceived greater return on an airline’s investment than I.
However, my message is don’t let it get you down. I recently spent a few days holiday in New York (my first visit), and I visited Ground Zero. I don’t mind telling you that I shed a lot of tears. There is a tacit aura of sadness and despair around what is essentially a hole in the ground, but I also sensed a real resilience in the people around me, and a hope that the future would somehow be a better place.
Remember people, over 3500 souls were lost there, and there were many acts of heroism from people both alive and sadly now dead. How can I feel depressed about my situation? I’m alive and I have a future, and if my future sees me working on a flight deck of a jet then I shall thank my lucky stars, but if it doesn’t then I’ll not be bitter.
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The reason scroggs why there are so few posters out there is that as this is a wannabees forum most of us are out there waiting to pick up tips and unfortunately have not got that much advice to be able to give. Really this could do with being posted as a general letter on the 'rumours and news' so that more of the pilots with jobs can maybe read and answer. I appreciate that many of them probably don't look at this forum like myself with most of the other forums. I just do not have time to read all of them much as i would like to.
If you agree could we try posting it on another forum (with moderators approval) so we might get a bit more advice from the top!
Also maybe we could set up a permanent part of the site with FAQ's to some of the wannabees questions as the same old ones keep coming up. Might that save server space? I was thinking along the lines of Schools, jobs etc...
On this topic - is a few hours sim a month going to be worth it and can u keep current for an IRT? Do you need to spend some resl time all year or only leading up to the exam?
If you agree could we try posting it on another forum (with moderators approval) so we might get a bit more advice from the top!
Also maybe we could set up a permanent part of the site with FAQ's to some of the wannabees questions as the same old ones keep coming up. Might that save server space? I was thinking along the lines of Schools, jobs etc...
On this topic - is a few hours sim a month going to be worth it and can u keep current for an IRT? Do you need to spend some resl time all year or only leading up to the exam?
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Well WWW looks like the future may be Orange for you.
Disagree with your advice about slinging your money at an FNPT2 sim. Listening to a lot of the Hirers (lower end of the market - BE, KLMuk etc) at one of the job conferences and they wanted time in the air. Stick and rudder skills. They didn't seem too impressed by questions from some wannabe's about whether or not occasional sessions in a sim would do instead.
I know that the job situation for FI's is tighter than 1998-2000 when we were both looking for our first airline jobs but there's no substitute for getting your backside in the air and instructing is a good way of building experience. Otherwise people should get flying anyway they can.
Also I would say to people forget the likes of Virgin, Emirates or similar (unless you know someone well enough to plonk your CV on the right desk). Concentrate your efforts at turboprop operators or similar. They are far more likely to look at you, presuming they're recruiting.
Also as a general point, I agree wholeheartedly with the earlier post about going to the job conferences. I got my job by talking to someone at one of them while everyone else was in learning about how to put together CV's. Keep in contact with the recruiters regularly so your name keeps coming up although don't be a pest.
Just glad I'm not having to look for work in the current climate.
Best of luck
Disagree with your advice about slinging your money at an FNPT2 sim. Listening to a lot of the Hirers (lower end of the market - BE, KLMuk etc) at one of the job conferences and they wanted time in the air. Stick and rudder skills. They didn't seem too impressed by questions from some wannabe's about whether or not occasional sessions in a sim would do instead.
I know that the job situation for FI's is tighter than 1998-2000 when we were both looking for our first airline jobs but there's no substitute for getting your backside in the air and instructing is a good way of building experience. Otherwise people should get flying anyway they can.
Also I would say to people forget the likes of Virgin, Emirates or similar (unless you know someone well enough to plonk your CV on the right desk). Concentrate your efforts at turboprop operators or similar. They are far more likely to look at you, presuming they're recruiting.
Also as a general point, I agree wholeheartedly with the earlier post about going to the job conferences. I got my job by talking to someone at one of them while everyone else was in learning about how to put together CV's. Keep in contact with the recruiters regularly so your name keeps coming up although don't be a pest.
Just glad I'm not having to look for work in the current climate.
Best of luck
Last edited by climbs like a dog; 6th May 2002 at 14:54.
Join Date: Jun 1999
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I remember in an interview with Britannia the Fleet manager interviewing me saying they liked current hours in the air most (that's not to say I didn't get a lot of value out of the infamous cheap Trident sim as well!).
Also I was forced unwillingly to go down the instructor route (another loan for ****** all wages!). Now with a commercial job I cannot say enough about my time teaching. It absolutely changes and improves you as pilot without doubt, not to mention the satisfaction from teaching someone to fly.
I mention instructing as a lot of my colleagues with many hours are sending C.V.'s out and getting nothing but knock backs, whilst we all prepare to stay in our jobs for a while longer, thankful enough that we have one!
Best of luck all
Also I was forced unwillingly to go down the instructor route (another loan for ****** all wages!). Now with a commercial job I cannot say enough about my time teaching. It absolutely changes and improves you as pilot without doubt, not to mention the satisfaction from teaching someone to fly.
I mention instructing as a lot of my colleagues with many hours are sending C.V.'s out and getting nothing but knock backs, whilst we all prepare to stay in our jobs for a while longer, thankful enough that we have one!
Best of luck all
climbs like a dog - yep, indeed I am wearing my flashiest orange socks as we speak.
I did not advise a FI rating as there are no jobs. Its £4,500 to get the rating and therefore a bit of a waste.
As for time in the air - if you are a 200hr pilot, a 400hr pilot or an 800hr pilot you are still a low houred pilot. Speaking as a man with 1,500 single engine piston hours I say that the last 500 were of no use to me job hunting wise.
To get that job you will HAVE to pass a sim ride. That is quite a tough proposition but one that you can do something about. Regular intensive Sim flying is the way to do that.
Is my view.
WWW
I did not advise a FI rating as there are no jobs. Its £4,500 to get the rating and therefore a bit of a waste.
As for time in the air - if you are a 200hr pilot, a 400hr pilot or an 800hr pilot you are still a low houred pilot. Speaking as a man with 1,500 single engine piston hours I say that the last 500 were of no use to me job hunting wise.
To get that job you will HAVE to pass a sim ride. That is quite a tough proposition but one that you can do something about. Regular intensive Sim flying is the way to do that.
Is my view.
WWW
Just got off the phone to a mate of mine with over 1,900hrs instructional hours who has been layed off for 6 weeks now. He has today taken a job with the Forestry Commission because otherwise next months rent cannot be found.
It is desperately sad - just prior to 911 he was getting interviews with household name airlines.
WWW
It is desperately sad - just prior to 911 he was getting interviews with household name airlines.
WWW