CPL test first or ATPL ground school?
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CPL test first or ATPL ground school?
I am likely to complete my PPL in May and I want to go to Florida to hour build in August for nearly 3 weeks.
I want to start my ATPL ground school as soon as possible after my ppl, I have a class 1 medical. I would like to start my CPL straight after August, could be at Stapleford, but the ground school may not be complete. Can I take the CPL skill test without the g/s completed and apply for licence issue later?
Any help with this is appreciated.
REX
I want to start my ATPL ground school as soon as possible after my ppl, I have a class 1 medical. I would like to start my CPL straight after August, could be at Stapleford, but the ground school may not be complete. Can I take the CPL skill test without the g/s completed and apply for licence issue later?
Any help with this is appreciated.
REX
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Conventional wisdom is that you should get all the ground exams out of the way first. They are a huge amount of work, the content is not that difficult to understand but the volume of verbage is quite overwhelming.
Once the ground stuff is squared away you can then concentrate fully on the flying module. Just my humble opinion but maybe somone else has a different viewpoint.
Once the ground stuff is squared away you can then concentrate fully on the flying module. Just my humble opinion but maybe somone else has a different viewpoint.
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It's not so much about personal preference, you have to complete all the ground exams before you are allowed to take the CPL skill test. You may start training for the CPL before sitting the ground exams but can't take the skill test until you achieve a full pass in all 14 ATPL exams. As this will take a long time and the CPL training will only take about 4 weeks you have to get the ground exams out the way first as you won't do them all within 4 weeks! Good luck.
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You might want to peruse these documents :
http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar/jar/jar.fc...160.165.a4.htm
http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar/jar/jar.fcl.1.495.htm
The line "The course of theoretical knowledge shall be completed within 18 months. The flight instruction and skill test shall be completed within the period of validity of the pass in the theoretical examinations" hints at what Trainee Pilot is saying. Although it is not very clear from the JAA documents that you must have passed all 14 subjects before you can take the CPL(A) Skills test.
My understanding is that you can take the Skills Test even if you have only passed one of the ground exams. That is now possible since the relaxing of the Partial Pass rule.
Check this document for further information. http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/documents/s...licyUpdate.pdf
I'm not sure if I have answered your question or confused you further.
Do the Ground Exams first then the CPL(A) Skills Test followed by the IR.
Well thats how I am doing it anyway.
[This message has been edited by Flypuppy (edited 17 April 2001).]
http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar/jar/jar.fc...160.165.a4.htm
http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar/jar/jar.fcl.1.495.htm
The line "The course of theoretical knowledge shall be completed within 18 months. The flight instruction and skill test shall be completed within the period of validity of the pass in the theoretical examinations" hints at what Trainee Pilot is saying. Although it is not very clear from the JAA documents that you must have passed all 14 subjects before you can take the CPL(A) Skills test.
My understanding is that you can take the Skills Test even if you have only passed one of the ground exams. That is now possible since the relaxing of the Partial Pass rule.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">The accepted amendments to the JAR- FCL examination rules are as follows:
1. The existing rule allows candidates to split the fourteen papers into two separate parts. This has been removed and candidates may attempt the papers in any number of parts, may sit papers in any order and may opt for a schedule to meet their own training
course requirements.
2. The abolition of the partial pass rule has already taken place. Similarly, the requirement that all failed papers be taken at the same sitting will also cease.
3. A candidate is required to complete all examination papers within a period of eighteen months, counted from the end of the calendar month when the applicant first attempted an examination. The eighteen months is now the time limit for both ATPL and CPL examinations.</font>
1. The existing rule allows candidates to split the fourteen papers into two separate parts. This has been removed and candidates may attempt the papers in any number of parts, may sit papers in any order and may opt for a schedule to meet their own training
course requirements.
2. The abolition of the partial pass rule has already taken place. Similarly, the requirement that all failed papers be taken at the same sitting will also cease.
3. A candidate is required to complete all examination papers within a period of eighteen months, counted from the end of the calendar month when the applicant first attempted an examination. The eighteen months is now the time limit for both ATPL and CPL examinations.</font>
I'm not sure if I have answered your question or confused you further.
Do the Ground Exams first then the CPL(A) Skills Test followed by the IR.
Well thats how I am doing it anyway.
[This message has been edited by Flypuppy (edited 17 April 2001).]
Guest
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Thanks all. I am still a bit confused a ce moment. It seems that rushing out to Florida to bang out 100 hours may be a bit premature. I understand that I need to fly once a month to keep current on my ppl but doing some hours in Fla would be good. I suppose that the ratings, IMC and Multi would be good to do there and get some extra multi hours in as well. Makes me wonder about buying a share in a PA28/C172 as I want to keep up my hours rather than just the minimum. I can think of places to go and people to visit.
Guest
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Rex,
Why dont you get on with the ATPL study,as that will take the longest time.Whilst studying fly once or twice a month just to remind yourself why we put ourselves through this torture.Then once you have the exams out of the way,think about hour building,you can use this to get yourself up to speed for the CPL.If you do a twin rating now,you have got to keep it current...at about £175-£225/hr!!!
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GET THE BLOODY NOSE DOWN!
Why dont you get on with the ATPL study,as that will take the longest time.Whilst studying fly once or twice a month just to remind yourself why we put ourselves through this torture.Then once you have the exams out of the way,think about hour building,you can use this to get yourself up to speed for the CPL.If you do a twin rating now,you have got to keep it current...at about £175-£225/hr!!!
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GET THE BLOODY NOSE DOWN!
Guest
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Thanks all for your comments and opinions.
Looks like most of the groundschool first then start cpl. Seems to make sense. However I may still go to Florida and build some hours and have a mini holiday to boot. The flying has gotta be fun. I suppose I may drop the multi bit for now but the IMC is a must, I look at it as a get out of sticky situations rating. I suppose thats useful.
TTFN
Rex
Looks like most of the groundschool first then start cpl. Seems to make sense. However I may still go to Florida and build some hours and have a mini holiday to boot. The flying has gotta be fun. I suppose I may drop the multi bit for now but the IMC is a must, I look at it as a get out of sticky situations rating. I suppose thats useful.
TTFN
Rex
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Rex,
If you have just got a shiny new PPL(A) you will still have to do the hour building bit:
Have fun in Florida, when you are building your hours dont just drill holes in the sky though. Plan the flights properly, be hard on yourself and keep within the tolerances you set for yourself (Height ±100 feet, Tracking on radio aids ±5°, Heading ±10°, Speed take-off and approach ±5 knots all other flight regimes ±10 knots are good yardsticks)
If you need any ideas what the JAA ATPL questions are like have a look here : http://www.geocities.com/bigredjumbo/index.html
Good luck
If you have just got a shiny new PPL(A) you will still have to do the hour building bit:
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">
2 Before commencing a CPL(A) modular course an applicant shall:
(a) be the holder of a PPL(A) issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1;
(b) have completed 150 hours flight time as a pilot
</font>
2 Before commencing a CPL(A) modular course an applicant shall:
(a) be the holder of a PPL(A) issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1;
(b) have completed 150 hours flight time as a pilot
</font>
If you need any ideas what the JAA ATPL questions are like have a look here : http://www.geocities.com/bigredjumbo/index.html
Good luck
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JAR-FCL 1.030 (e) "Before a skill test for the issue of a licence or rating is taken the applicant shall have passed the associated theoretical knowledge examinations" Integrated training is the only exception.
You will find this is a pre-entry requirement for a CPL Modular course of training, if you have not passed all of the exams you will not be able to start a course of flying training.
[This message has been edited by Noggin (edited 18 April 2001).]
You will find this is a pre-entry requirement for a CPL Modular course of training, if you have not passed all of the exams you will not be able to start a course of flying training.
[This message has been edited by Noggin (edited 18 April 2001).]
