no job for the next 10 years
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 871
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From: Chichester, UK
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: United Kingdom
poor-pilot (or whoever you are)
I hope your mentor realises what a poor-student you are, and sees that your paper will not get you anywhere in trying to explain the long-term economic future of the airline industry. It is so very unpredictable as is most of the world's industry's as anything can happen in such as SHORT period of time.
Your paper will not justify anything, and will be based purely on speculation. Do not think you will be getting honours with your degree - because i would not read (or try to read) your paper with a barge pole!!
Have a nice day
I hope your mentor realises what a poor-student you are, and sees that your paper will not get you anywhere in trying to explain the long-term economic future of the airline industry. It is so very unpredictable as is most of the world's industry's as anything can happen in such as SHORT period of time.
Your paper will not justify anything, and will be based purely on speculation. Do not think you will be getting honours with your degree - because i would not read (or try to read) your paper with a barge pole!!
Have a nice day
Supercharged PPRuNer
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,188
Likes: 15
From: Doon the watter, a million miles from the sandpit.
Careful chaps. If Poor-pilot is who I think he is, he’s current on at least 5 different jet transports, the FA-18, and Tom Cruise’s Learjet.
He also knows all about the JAA, WWW’s job at Burger King in LHR, and yellow willy tattoos. In short, you’d better listen to him.
He also knows all about the JAA, WWW’s job at Burger King in LHR, and yellow willy tattoos. In short, you’d better listen to him.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
From: LGW
As blunt as Poor-Pilot is, there is an element of truth to what he/she is saying.
The collapse of the many carriers Swiss, Sabena etc. are going to create a huge glut of pilots on the market for many years to come. Exactly how many years however is anyones guess.
I have been in this industry for over twelve years now and during all of those years I have been reading about a supposed pilot shortage apparently just around the corner- It hasn't happened yet. My only conclusion now can be that it never will! Don't get me wrong, I seriously hope it does as it will hopefully greatly inflate my salary which is my only real interest in this game anymore!!!
The collapse of the many carriers Swiss, Sabena etc. are going to create a huge glut of pilots on the market for many years to come. Exactly how many years however is anyones guess.
I have been in this industry for over twelve years now and during all of those years I have been reading about a supposed pilot shortage apparently just around the corner- It hasn't happened yet. My only conclusion now can be that it never will! Don't get me wrong, I seriously hope it does as it will hopefully greatly inflate my salary which is my only real interest in this game anymore!!!
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
From: europe
Easy glider is right.In 1994, I spoke with a military pilot. he told me the story about the shortage of pilots is effectively a story.
to answer to panic button, effectively we speak only about passenger planes, but the hiring process come from the top(the airlines) A captain takes is retirement, a copi takes his place, a new copi coming from a corporate takes his place and an instructor goes work as a corporate pilot and so on.
As long pilots keep their job, there will be no free place for guys coming from under...and there are so many pilots trained since 1992 still waiting for a job, that airlines have a pool of pilots for the next 8-12 years.I dont want to speak about fresh pilots with no experience...it makes me sad!
Look at ryanair, do you think they need pilots?why do they charge 50euros?what do you expect?do you thing airline are begging for pilots?look around you, pilots pay to work.
200 hours on a boeing 737, 45000 dollars.this is what you have TO PAY TO WORK!or 30000 US dollars to work on a lear for Ameriflight in the USA. This is what you have to PAY to work.
yes, aviation becomes like this: if you want work as a pilot, pay!
to answer to panic button, effectively we speak only about passenger planes, but the hiring process come from the top(the airlines) A captain takes is retirement, a copi takes his place, a new copi coming from a corporate takes his place and an instructor goes work as a corporate pilot and so on.
As long pilots keep their job, there will be no free place for guys coming from under...and there are so many pilots trained since 1992 still waiting for a job, that airlines have a pool of pilots for the next 8-12 years.I dont want to speak about fresh pilots with no experience...it makes me sad!
Look at ryanair, do you think they need pilots?why do they charge 50euros?what do you expect?do you thing airline are begging for pilots?look around you, pilots pay to work.
200 hours on a boeing 737, 45000 dollars.this is what you have TO PAY TO WORK!or 30000 US dollars to work on a lear for Ameriflight in the USA. This is what you have to PAY to work.
yes, aviation becomes like this: if you want work as a pilot, pay!
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
From: Chicago
Hey Poor-Pilot,
I don't know too much about the job situation in Europe, but I do know that you are more or less full of **** if you say that you have to pay to fly in the US. Ok, after 9/11 it is harder to find jobs, but they are still out there, no doubt. Lots of regionals are hiring, and there is always corporate jobs if you are lucky enough. The majors are slowing down, but don't tell me that you have to pay to work over here!!!
And if nothing else works, the flight-schools are always looking for an instructor or two.
I don't know too much about the job situation in Europe, but I do know that you are more or less full of **** if you say that you have to pay to fly in the US. Ok, after 9/11 it is harder to find jobs, but they are still out there, no doubt. Lots of regionals are hiring, and there is always corporate jobs if you are lucky enough. The majors are slowing down, but don't tell me that you have to pay to work over here!!!
And if nothing else works, the flight-schools are always looking for an instructor or two.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,118
Likes: 140
From: overthere
Wow Poor Pilot, if you can make predictions like this while still a student, just imagine the doom and gloom you will be able to cause when you grow up and gain some experience!
Now be a nice little boy and get back to bed before your mother finds out you have been on the internet again.
Now be a nice little boy and get back to bed before your mother finds out you have been on the internet again.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
From: europe
well gentlemen, the truth hurts...
I would like to reply to the US guys.Effectively, there are some jobs in the USA.But the US are not ready to let foreigners to take their job.it s why if EU pilots want work in the US , they have to pay for a work permit.Check with Eagle jet intl in florida, they have a special training for 45'000 US dollars, 200 hours on the B737.
There is a guy in Nordway, who charges 30'000 US dollars to fly a Lear.Once again, my friends, I am very sorry for all these young guys who paid so much for their license and who will probably never find a flying job.It's my job to tell the truth.
I would like to say that 3 years ago, an economist of swiss air group warned Swissair,Instead to listen, do you know what they did? he was fired! Now you see the result!
I would like to reply to the US guys.Effectively, there are some jobs in the USA.But the US are not ready to let foreigners to take their job.it s why if EU pilots want work in the US , they have to pay for a work permit.Check with Eagle jet intl in florida, they have a special training for 45'000 US dollars, 200 hours on the B737.
There is a guy in Nordway, who charges 30'000 US dollars to fly a Lear.Once again, my friends, I am very sorry for all these young guys who paid so much for their license and who will probably never find a flying job.It's my job to tell the truth.
I would like to say that 3 years ago, an economist of swiss air group warned Swissair,Instead to listen, do you know what they did? he was fired! Now you see the result!
fish!
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
From: Chicago
Poor-pilot,
You are right that it is hard to get a visa or green-card in order to work legally in the States, but there is always other places in the world to go besides Europe and North-America....
BUT, instead of coming over here to the states and buying jet-time with Eagle jet intl or similar companies, and undermining all other hard-working professional pilots, you can usually instruct on a visa without too many problems. I can't see how you can say that people starting flight-training now will never get a job, there will always be jobs out there for pilots that are willing to work hard and relocate.
You are right that it is hard to get a visa or green-card in order to work legally in the States, but there is always other places in the world to go besides Europe and North-America....
BUT, instead of coming over here to the states and buying jet-time with Eagle jet intl or similar companies, and undermining all other hard-working professional pilots, you can usually instruct on a visa without too many problems. I can't see how you can say that people starting flight-training now will never get a job, there will always be jobs out there for pilots that are willing to work hard and relocate.
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
From: West Mids
I hate to bring this back to the top by posting, again, but as I said in my first post:
"Where are the facts to back up your claims?"
If your are said expert Economist please furnish us with FACTS, that way each and everyone of us can go off and make up our own minds without being constantly wound up by someone who pretends to know what he/she is talking about.
If you cant supply facts please go and play somewhere else.
TBL
"Where are the facts to back up your claims?"
If your are said expert Economist please furnish us with FACTS, that way each and everyone of us can go off and make up our own minds without being constantly wound up by someone who pretends to know what he/she is talking about.
If you cant supply facts please go and play somewhere else.
TBL
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 497
Likes: 0
From: Right Here.
Is that all???
10 YEARS!! Is that all?? Wow rapid stream to the top in aviation huh? Now lets see....
It was four years to get qualified from my first ever lesson. Been qualified a year. Only 5 years till left hand seat, responsible for multi million pound a/c. FANTASTIC! It will take me at least 30 years to be MD of my current employer.
Thanks Poor Pilot, sorry to hear about your job at ENRON.
MAX
It was four years to get qualified from my first ever lesson. Been qualified a year. Only 5 years till left hand seat, responsible for multi million pound a/c. FANTASTIC! It will take me at least 30 years to be MD of my current employer.
Thanks Poor Pilot, sorry to hear about your job at ENRON.
MAX
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: Dallas, Texas, USA
Poor Pilot,
Quit your bitchin'.
It took me eight hard years just to get my CFI. Then I had to compete with Euro's who came to the States, with a pocket full of cash, and who got all the choice multi engine instruction.
Then I got a freight job (there weren't any others...) and had to compete with Euro's, who saw fit to pad their log books by a thousand hours, and who would fly a Baron all night for free. Not to mention over staying their Visas for a couple of years. Meanwhile, I was trying to raise a family on less than a thousand bucks a month.
Then I had to deal with all the low timer females gettin' an airline job by virtue of their gender. Long live equal opportunity....
All the while I kept the faith....
You know, there's always some namby city boy who wants everything RIGHT NOW, and thinks he deserves it. Who ain't got the balls to do the hard work and pay his dues. Who thinks that the world owes him a living.
Shut the @#$% up and put your nose to the grindstone. If you really want to fly, you'll find a way. If you're not prepared to do that, then get out of the way of those who are dedicated to the profession, and who are ready to put up with all the bull!!!!, and make the necessary sacrifices.
Or go be a used car dealer!
MachOverspeed
Quit your bitchin'.
It took me eight hard years just to get my CFI. Then I had to compete with Euro's who came to the States, with a pocket full of cash, and who got all the choice multi engine instruction.
Then I got a freight job (there weren't any others...) and had to compete with Euro's, who saw fit to pad their log books by a thousand hours, and who would fly a Baron all night for free. Not to mention over staying their Visas for a couple of years. Meanwhile, I was trying to raise a family on less than a thousand bucks a month.
Then I had to deal with all the low timer females gettin' an airline job by virtue of their gender. Long live equal opportunity....
All the while I kept the faith....
You know, there's always some namby city boy who wants everything RIGHT NOW, and thinks he deserves it. Who ain't got the balls to do the hard work and pay his dues. Who thinks that the world owes him a living.
Shut the @#$% up and put your nose to the grindstone. If you really want to fly, you'll find a way. If you're not prepared to do that, then get out of the way of those who are dedicated to the profession, and who are ready to put up with all the bull!!!!, and make the necessary sacrifices.
Or go be a used car dealer!
MachOverspeed
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
From: Chicago
MachOverspeed,
Well said!! Except, don't give ALL us Europeans that work in the States a bad reputation now. Some of us actually work here legally. I've been working my ass of here, and so far I've not noticed any favoritism at all....
Well said!! Except, don't give ALL us Europeans that work in the States a bad reputation now. Some of us actually work here legally.
I've been working my ass of here, and so far I've not noticed any favoritism at all....
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
From: LGW
Its obvious that this is an extremely hot subject. What Poor Pilot is saying is still true to a point, even though he does seem to enjoy winding you all up.
As I said in my previous post, I have been in this industry for over 12 years and this promised pilot shortage has never happened. I however have been relatively lucky, right time, right place etc. and have landed some reasonable jobs in this industry. I am currently flying the B757/B767.
What I have seen however, is that it does appear harder to land what I would call decent jobs as pilots terms and conditions have been badly eroded during the last 10 years. In other words, the days of large salaries are over especially for newcomers who are now often employed on lower pay scales than the older chaps.
If I was in the position of starting a career now, I must say that personally, - and this is just my personal opinion, - I would not enter this industry and if I could go back and do it all again I would also probably do something different.
I would just like to add that I am not trying to influence anyones thinking, and as I said before, theese are all jusy my personal opinions.
As I said in my previous post, I have been in this industry for over 12 years and this promised pilot shortage has never happened. I however have been relatively lucky, right time, right place etc. and have landed some reasonable jobs in this industry. I am currently flying the B757/B767.
What I have seen however, is that it does appear harder to land what I would call decent jobs as pilots terms and conditions have been badly eroded during the last 10 years. In other words, the days of large salaries are over especially for newcomers who are now often employed on lower pay scales than the older chaps.
If I was in the position of starting a career now, I must say that personally, - and this is just my personal opinion, - I would not enter this industry and if I could go back and do it all again I would also probably do something different.
I would just like to add that I am not trying to influence anyones thinking, and as I said before, theese are all jusy my personal opinions.