Uni or flying training? (2012)
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Yeah, I've got 2 friends did their training with dady's money and now both flying Airbus, both under 25 and didn't have any degrees. I am not sure if they had A Levels either. 
Nothing wrong with being lucky bastards but if you can afford why not do a degree cos in future the companies will be very very picky employing their pilots if they are not already. There won't be many places to fill, just my opinion... or follow the trend and save up for a TR instead of bothering to study
LB380
Nothing wrong with being lucky bastards but if you can afford why not do a degree cos in future the companies will be very very picky employing their pilots if they are not already. There won't be many places to fill, just my opinion... or follow the trend and save up for a TR instead of bothering to studyLB380
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I'm starting my degree in aeronautical engineering in september then going into pilot training after....you have to have somthing to fall back on, your ATPL is alot of rubbish and 100% worthless if somthing stops you from being a commercial pilot....medical for example. If you left school and went straight into flying and was a pilot for so long andthen lost your job for some unforseen reason and couldn't fly again what would you do? With the amount of people going to university these you can't find a decsent replacement job with grades obtained from school.....
I'm starting my degree in aeronautical engineering in september then going into pilot training after....you have to have somthing to fall back on, your ATPL is alot of rubbish and 100% worthless if somthing stops you from being a commercial pilot....medical for example. If you left school and went straight into flying and was a pilot for so long andthen lost your job for some unforseen reason and couldn't fly again what would you do? With the amount of people going to university these you can't find a decsent replacement job with grades obtained from school.....
Then a minor medical problem cropped up - just enough to stop them having a full RAF pilot medical. Said student is still happy flying privately, still in the RAF, but took a step sideways into Engineering branch - which their degree permitted without any trouble. Best guess is that in not too many years in the future they'll probably be a FJ SEngO somewhere.
On another tack - I'd still agree with many others that if ALL you ever want to do is fly, then a degree may well be a waste of time and money. But if you are, say, 20-25 now - that's 40+ years worth of career ahead of you, and a degree taken now may offer many later career development options beyond the captaincy. Of course you can do a degree later, but may well have a lot of financial commitments then which make it much harder than now without much in the way of financial commitments.
G
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Though of course, getting a degree after losing a medical may not be an option, if at that stage, one has a family, children, and needs to earn.
Yes, of course, different people are suited to different options - circumstances differ markedly. However, there is a huge difference between an 18-year old who foregoes university to take up a dead-end job solely for the purposes of earning, as they have their head in the clouds, and an 18-year old who foregoes university based upon a strategy to get into the flightdeck more quickly revolving around networking, generating a backup plan, and earning top-dollar for their time.
Of course, there are also those who go to university and waste their experience as well, so it is extremely difficult to speak in generalisations at all on the subject. Furthermore, university at a later age is not the same experience as university at 18.
Bottom line is that different routes suit different people. Having researched them thoroughly (not needlessly throwing away opportunities), you are in a better position long-run.
Here is an example of someone I know:
- Spent 4 years on a university degree at a top UK university
- No parental cash
- Achieved PPL before university, progressing to ATPL from savings in year 1 of university (savings from weekend job at 6th form/uni)
- Working as FI on fATPL during years 2-4.
- Graduated with upper second
- Walked directly into a job with a regional with no debt upon graduation, due to effective networking
Fully backed-up, no debt, highly educated, university-experienced at 22 with a job. The degree being more than a piece of paper, but also a route into another network and career if it all goes to pot due to sickness.
Can't beat that route.
3 Years at Foggy Bottom technical college to study Britney Spears Film Studies may be considered to be a waste of time though.
Yes, of course, different people are suited to different options - circumstances differ markedly. However, there is a huge difference between an 18-year old who foregoes university to take up a dead-end job solely for the purposes of earning, as they have their head in the clouds, and an 18-year old who foregoes university based upon a strategy to get into the flightdeck more quickly revolving around networking, generating a backup plan, and earning top-dollar for their time.
Of course, there are also those who go to university and waste their experience as well, so it is extremely difficult to speak in generalisations at all on the subject. Furthermore, university at a later age is not the same experience as university at 18.
Bottom line is that different routes suit different people. Having researched them thoroughly (not needlessly throwing away opportunities), you are in a better position long-run.
Here is an example of someone I know:
- Spent 4 years on a university degree at a top UK university
- No parental cash
- Achieved PPL before university, progressing to ATPL from savings in year 1 of university (savings from weekend job at 6th form/uni)
- Working as FI on fATPL during years 2-4.
- Graduated with upper second
- Walked directly into a job with a regional with no debt upon graduation, due to effective networking
Fully backed-up, no debt, highly educated, university-experienced at 22 with a job. The degree being more than a piece of paper, but also a route into another network and career if it all goes to pot due to sickness.
Can't beat that route.
3 Years at Foggy Bottom technical college to study Britney Spears Film Studies may be considered to be a waste of time though.
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Originally Posted by Wee Weasley Welshman
3 years and about £15k in bills for a piece of paper you hang on the wall and think is some kind of 40 year insurance policy is nuts.
The reality is, most employers (especially in IT) want experience too. Training someone costs a lot, and it's perceived that there are a lot of already perfectly trained individuals out there (is this ringing any bells with airlines and newly qualified pilots?). The end result is that I'm looking at what are pretty close to minimum wage jobs, feel I've missed out on three years of earning potential while simultaneously getting myself into £xx,000 debt and have wasted 3 years of my prime; I'm now 23. Do you honestly think that if I (somehow) became a commercial pilot now, and then in 20 years time lost my medical, this degree would be worth anything? Hell, it's not worth much now. The piece of paper is expected, it's not anything special, it's just a box to tick. The experience is what gets you to the interview and beyond. I'm not one of these people who say they're looking for a job when they're not, I do have a few leads now and am fairly confident I'll have a job quite soon. But it has taken a LOT of application work, and it isn't likely to lead to anything stellar. But I'll take any job over no job right now, regardless of its merits.
Given all of the above, a degree is insurance for nothing. As time pushes on it'll rapidly become less relevant. I'm not going to deny that it can't hurt to have one once you've got it, and for some people perhaps it's the right move. But relying on it as some form of golden bullet to not be flipping burgers if you can't be a pilot in 20 years is close to fairytale land.
Assuming I had a minimum wage job (I'm intelligent and a good leader, it'd be more very quickly) for 3 years and taking into account debts incurred from university, I'll be down somewhere in the order of £50k as a direct result of university. Probably more. Perhaps in the longer term I'll recoup that in increased earnings, but that assumes landing a job where a degree is required and experience begins to build. It also assumes a world where a degree really means something, and I'm sorry to say that I was appalled at the level of intelligence of many I saw at university. Increasingly, degrees are being watered down. Admittedly, I did not go to Oxbridge.
I recognised all of the above early into my second year, but felt I was too time and money commited by that point to back out. The bottom line is, a degree on its own is a lot more worthless than many will lead you to believe. By all means get solid A-Levels and job related qualifications etc. But don't expect that degree that's been gathering dust for 20 years to be dusted off and land you a £35k job; it just wont. There are of course reasons to get a degree, but I'd think long and hard about whether a degree is truely right for you, and for what reasons. If your reasons contain words like "backup", well then I'd suggest double and triple checking the validity of that assumption.
Apologies for the long post.
No apology needed.
Speaking personally if I lost my job or medical now I don't think I'd care much about my CV and qualifications because I'd very likely start my own business. I can't see myself wanting to join the rat race, done a suit, go corporate or do anything where my CV will be asked for.
Why spend £15k and 3 years to get a certificate when for that money you could easily start a retail business, by equipment and a van or set up a production facility.
For that matter if I was in my 40's and found myself with 10,000hrs jet command time but no pilots license and applying to Tescos for the job of store manager I might have a bit more to talk about than explain why I didn't do a degree twenty years ago. I loved University and I actually did go on to use my degree in a graduate job for four years. My degree is also useful in my flying job. I'm not anti-degree.
Its just this trite phrase about a degree being a useful backup irritates me a bit because I think its a very un-useful backup.
Everybody is different of course and there are no right answers.
WWW
Speaking personally if I lost my job or medical now I don't think I'd care much about my CV and qualifications because I'd very likely start my own business. I can't see myself wanting to join the rat race, done a suit, go corporate or do anything where my CV will be asked for.
Why spend £15k and 3 years to get a certificate when for that money you could easily start a retail business, by equipment and a van or set up a production facility.
For that matter if I was in my 40's and found myself with 10,000hrs jet command time but no pilots license and applying to Tescos for the job of store manager I might have a bit more to talk about than explain why I didn't do a degree twenty years ago. I loved University and I actually did go on to use my degree in a graduate job for four years. My degree is also useful in my flying job. I'm not anti-degree.
Its just this trite phrase about a degree being a useful backup irritates me a bit because I think its a very un-useful backup.
Everybody is different of course and there are no right answers.
WWW
Its just this trite phrase about a degree being a useful backup irritates me a bit because I think its a very un-useful backup.
Personally I have two degrees and have used them constantly throughout my career. But, I'm not an airline pilot, I'm an aviation boffin who flies.
G
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I do think degrees are a great thing to have behind you. It's not just the degree but other advantages that aren't instantly apparent. When you leave school...you've just come out of an environment of learning and heading into uni you'll continue to learn and i believe do your best. You won't have big financial commitments such as a mortgage, family or car etc....Once you graduate you'll be older, much more mature and have a 'wiser head' and make more educated decisions. I'm going to uni whem im 17 if i graduate i'll leave uni at 22. I wouldn't called that old and who says you have to go into pilot training straight away, you might want to make some money for yourself after secondary school and university being taught all this stuff, you might now want to put what you've learn't into practice then head into flying. I personally know one person who graduated with a aero-mech degree and did a year with a engineering firm, made some money and then went into flying.....he has experience using his degree. On the other hand i know someone who graduated with the mech engineering degree went straight into flying and then lost his medical and thus right to fly, he applied to a engineering company and got in a week later.
This isn't the only right way but nor is it wrong and i think i have proven that with the two accounts above but i've settled on what route im going to pursue.
This isn't the only right way but nor is it wrong and i think i have proven that with the two accounts above but i've settled on what route im going to pursue.
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Would You Go To University First?
Ill keep it short & sweet- the end goal is to be a jet jockey. In my last year of A-levels and coming around to UCAS applications. My question Is,
#1- Would you go to university at all if you're certain you want to fly for the airlines.
#2- Having not considered Uni till recently, I've only looked down the engineering road, or airline studies with pilot studies, any thoughts on courses?
N.B am aware of the search function, just not a topic ive found alot on.
#1- Would you go to university at all if you're certain you want to fly for the airlines.
#2- Having not considered Uni till recently, I've only looked down the engineering road, or airline studies with pilot studies, any thoughts on courses?
N.B am aware of the search function, just not a topic ive found alot on.
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Yes, go to university and add life experience and a skill-set to your cv. Getting a job in aviation will be very difficult. With a relevant degree you will be better placed to get a back up job while you wait for your flying job or you will make yourself a better all round character. All this depends on having enough money to go to university and pay for flight training.
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A degree for the sake of putting on a CV... I wouldn't.
However for a backup career, it's more or less a must. You must consider the big chance of never landing a paying job. If you can get a backup career that pays well without doing the uni, then you could probably skip it.
However for a backup career, it's more or less a must. You must consider the big chance of never landing a paying job. If you can get a backup career that pays well without doing the uni, then you could probably skip it.
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Seriously thinking?
Dear Tony,
I did not read all the replies do to the lack of time, but what bothers me is how seriously thinking you are? You say you study something at college and by the end of the college you started seriously thinking about going to aviation. You already know that the route you are considering is a money consuming one and therefore I wanted to ask you when did you start seriously think about aviation?
If it is just now on the last year of college after watching some series or hearing some stories I'd say don't do it! I believe (sorry pals) aviation is the industry where you better not go withough honest fanatism which lasts for years (if not all your life preferably). I personally studied aviation related course at Uni and I was somehow bothered by people who joined this course just our of fresh interest. They were not sure what to join so they joined this one. Of course there were just very few of those, but it is quite disturbing to me. By the most of those people were not interested in the details of some modules, but they only loved the idea of aviation. Like: aviation wow flying awesome, but this vector calculus with aerodynamics is damn boring along with this avionics can't understand can't be bothered.
Therefore I want to ask you how serious is your interest? If you fanaticly want to become a pilot do it! It is hard to land a first AIRLINER job people are whinning about but it is not that hard to start instructing! Pay 6k euro. Get FI License. Work for year or two (maybe you will love it and will desire to stay getting into better FTO with better pay). And then find a jet job! Also as you live in Leeds I would suggest you go modular (since no living expanses required) since modular is a perfect way to get to FI with less money spent. Just think, do you REALLY want it?
I did not read all the replies do to the lack of time, but what bothers me is how seriously thinking you are? You say you study something at college and by the end of the college you started seriously thinking about going to aviation. You already know that the route you are considering is a money consuming one and therefore I wanted to ask you when did you start seriously think about aviation?
If it is just now on the last year of college after watching some series or hearing some stories I'd say don't do it! I believe (sorry pals) aviation is the industry where you better not go withough honest fanatism which lasts for years (if not all your life preferably). I personally studied aviation related course at Uni and I was somehow bothered by people who joined this course just our of fresh interest. They were not sure what to join so they joined this one. Of course there were just very few of those, but it is quite disturbing to me. By the most of those people were not interested in the details of some modules, but they only loved the idea of aviation. Like: aviation wow flying awesome, but this vector calculus with aerodynamics is damn boring along with this avionics can't understand can't be bothered.
Therefore I want to ask you how serious is your interest? If you fanaticly want to become a pilot do it! It is hard to land a first AIRLINER job people are whinning about but it is not that hard to start instructing! Pay 6k euro. Get FI License. Work for year or two (maybe you will love it and will desire to stay getting into better FTO with better pay). And then find a jet job! Also as you live in Leeds I would suggest you go modular (since no living expanses required) since modular is a perfect way to get to FI with less money spent. Just think, do you REALLY want it?
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And your age really shows in that post charliegarner.
University is what you make of it. Chances are, if you go to a good one, do a worthwhile course and get a good grade, you will have matured and learned a hell of a lot. Yes, a lot I people who go to 'university' should not be there, but if you have a clear goal and are motivated, like any wannabe on this forum should be, then you are likely to gain from the experience if you are academically able. There is so much more to university than the degree itself.
I speak from experience. Unlike yourself.
University is what you make of it. Chances are, if you go to a good one, do a worthwhile course and get a good grade, you will have matured and learned a hell of a lot. Yes, a lot I people who go to 'university' should not be there, but if you have a clear goal and are motivated, like any wannabe on this forum should be, then you are likely to gain from the experience if you are academically able. There is so much more to university than the degree itself.
I speak from experience. Unlike yourself.
Check the dates!
Tony, the original poster started this thread in 2007. I think he's probably done with uni by now. Then ProWannabe started it again in 2009.
FS, how academic are you? On all accounts av engineering is hard stuff. I know a few people who have struggled through the course and just as many who have given up half way through.
If I was in your position I would find a job where you can earn a respectable amount of cash, perhaps get a trade or commercial experience. WWW mentioned how if he was to lose his job as an airline pilot that he would start his own business as a degree doesn't necessarily offer you the redundancy most think it does, consider this as some degrees are more desirable than others to employers. Even though you want to become an airline pilot, a degree in aviation management with pilot studies might not be the best one for you. Personally, I would have studied pure business or geography as I have a honest interest in these subjects (I don't have a degree yet).
The trouble with university is that almost everybody has a degree these days, even still, not having one won't stop you from getting a pilot job when you are older. I tend to disagree these days when people say "if two pilots go for a job, one has a degree and the other doesn't - the one with the degree will get the job". Assessment takes into consideration more than just academic qualifications. You might have degree in physics but fly like crap. Also, you don't have to go to university to become wise to the world and 'grow up' like everyone mentions on here.
FS, how academic are you? On all accounts av engineering is hard stuff. I know a few people who have struggled through the course and just as many who have given up half way through.
If I was in your position I would find a job where you can earn a respectable amount of cash, perhaps get a trade or commercial experience. WWW mentioned how if he was to lose his job as an airline pilot that he would start his own business as a degree doesn't necessarily offer you the redundancy most think it does, consider this as some degrees are more desirable than others to employers. Even though you want to become an airline pilot, a degree in aviation management with pilot studies might not be the best one for you. Personally, I would have studied pure business or geography as I have a honest interest in these subjects (I don't have a degree yet).
The trouble with university is that almost everybody has a degree these days, even still, not having one won't stop you from getting a pilot job when you are older. I tend to disagree these days when people say "if two pilots go for a job, one has a degree and the other doesn't - the one with the degree will get the job". Assessment takes into consideration more than just academic qualifications. You might have degree in physics but fly like crap. Also, you don't have to go to university to become wise to the world and 'grow up' like everyone mentions on here.
