Is my college legit??
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Birmingham
Age: 34
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is my college legit??
Hi guys,
I recently passed the applitude and asseent day and got offered
A place at pilot training college (PTC) who are have facilities in melbourne, Florida and Waterford, Ireland. Before I pay my deposit
I'd like to find out if anyone knows anything watsoever about this college
Thanks
.....
I recently passed the applitude and asseent day and got offered
A place at pilot training college (PTC) who are have facilities in melbourne, Florida and Waterford, Ireland. Before I pay my deposit
I'd like to find out if anyone knows anything watsoever about this college
Thanks
.....
Not too difficult to find using the search function:-
http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...ed-2011-a.html
http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...g-college.html
http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...e-too-far.html
plus lots more....
http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...ed-2011-a.html
http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...g-college.html
http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...e-too-far.html
plus lots more....
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Up North
Age: 57
Posts: 557
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: ireland
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A lot of these flybe guy that start are eventually told half way through their training that they are no long allowed to take part under the flybe mentor scheme and can finish their training on their own. PTC make alot of promises of job interviews and guarantee you a job at the end of the course but this is not the case as they have no say what so ever with any airline to get you a job. Also there is no need to go all the way to america to do your training when it can be done at home for a lot less as you have to include visa cost and also accommodation costs and living experiences over in america. If they think that you are not good enough they will send you home without your money. so be very careful with what they say. Everyone that does the compass test passes and they only use this to make you feel that you are going to make a brilliant pilot.
Last edited by rankace; 30th Jun 2012 at 14:24.
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: EU
Posts: 628
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Heard nothing but poor reviews from PTC. The ASA have written a report on how misleading their adverts are and they rip you off. For example, when you fly in the US you will still be charged at an hourly rate of that in Ireland.
Spend your money elsewhere.
Spend your money elsewhere.
Last edited by pudoc; 30th Jun 2012 at 16:41.
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Spain
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am a PTC graduate with no job. I also have peers on my course with Flybe, some of which lost their place because they did not withhold the 85%ATPL average that was set down by the airline at the start of their training. Yes PTC do offer these students an opportunity to continue their training and most of my class mates found jobs in other airlines since. PTC never told me they guaranteed me a job but they did set out the airlines standards to me I.e first time passes etc but they never promised me a job. The weather in Florida was fantastic while I was there, we had a calm summer with few storms. The instructors are dedicated and very professional at all times. I was trained to be an airline pilot and am very grateful of the extra mile PTC went to get me through! Hopefully I am successful with my second interview next week. I've graduated for 10 months so will be happy to eventually be able to start paying off my loans. Best of luck to everyone starting out on this course, it's not an easy run but it's definitely with it. Also be open to travel for work, I was a bit ignorant to this, thought I'd get a job with an Irish base straight off! Whoever you decide to train with, the dedication to the cause comes from you! Good luck!
When asked for comment after the PTC drama Carsten Sturm, the owner of Europe-American Aviation in Naples FL, wrote the following to a journalist from Headline News | Aero-News Network - The Aviation and Aerospace World's Daily, Real-time News and Information Service
I can't agree more.....
Irish Student Pilots Grounded
Financial Dispute Shuts Down Training Center
In your issue 151/07 from 7/7 2012
I lost count how often I had to read reports like this or very similar (CabAir, Jet University, Aussie Air, Tab Express, Capt Program, ACA, Silverstate etc, pp. to name just a few !!!) but it always makes me very angry as our industry is harmed in a way that cannot be put in numbers.
As you know I am operating a flight school and we have a good portion of our customers coming from outside the USA, mainly Europe.
Allow me to remark on a few things with regards to these recurring situations.
Whenever something like this happens, the victims are the students:
• They are the one who have no adequate education for the money they spent,
• Are stranded in a foreign country (the USA) with a visa that usually expires, as the sponsor (the school) is now not existing anymore,
• Might have legal options – but in reality don’t, because:
• Very often it is a jungle of contracts designed to protect only the scam artists and that is hard to untangle even for lawyers.
• In any case they are usually young kids in their early twenties who would need to bring legal actions against a defunct company in a foreign country !?!
• Oh yes, and did I mention, they are now completely out of money and their visa is either expired or soon will?!
Also, they should forget about any help from where they are, because nobody is responsible for anything.
Admitted, there is only so much any student can do to find out if a school is trustworthy or not.
Admitted, some of these operators have (or had) been in business for quite some time.
Admitted, some have (or had) a good name and reputation and a good track history.
Admitted, the information through online media and forums is not necessarily outspoken on potential red flags.
However, there is one clear benchmark which I meanwhile consider as a telltale for unethical business practices:
Upfront payments for future training
If an operator collects money for future services and uses these to cover past operating expenses, it is the very definition of a Ponzi scheme.
Every time there are not enough “new spenders” (victims), the scheme collapses because it cannot sustain on regular business.
Or to use an aviation metaphor: That operation is constantly flying behind the power curve
The crash is inevitable, it is just a question of time when it occurs.
I am preaching this for more than 10 years now, there is NO REASON from the students perspective, to pay upfront for services to be received sometime down the road.
There is no reason for the operator either, except to collect a lot of money before he encounters the expenses.
The problem is that sooner or later this money will be used for expenses and investments that are not directly connected to the training of the person that made this payment originally.
That is the moment when “level flight is abandoned” so to speak.
The nose has come up, but no power has been added. This plane will fall behind the power curve, sooner or later!
My advice to a potential student - If an operator asks for unreasonable payments upfront, walk away!
And unreasonable is anything beyond some admin fees, actual expenses like shipping of materials or modest reservation fees.
A company that collects ten-thousands of tuition fees (which often adds up to millions, due to large classes) is questionable at best, in most cases outright suspicious.
Here is a hypothetical scenario:
Let’s say some students are 4 months into their training and have only 25 hours dual received yet (not uncommon, unfortunately)
Now their school goes out of business and their visa expires as a consequence of that.
Let’s further assume they have paid only for the services they received so far.
Damage assessment:
They can transfer or extend with their visa to a different school, or they can go home and regroup.
They have paid for and received 25 hours of flight training, which nobody can take away from them, something they could have done in 1 month.
In essence, they have lost 3 months of time – a minor nuisance when you are in your early twenties.
Here is a look at the scenario that is described in your article:
If these students are in the USA for longer than 6 months already, they cannot transfer their visa but have to go home to their country and start the process all over.
They will lose their housing as it is part of the deal. If they like to stay and fight for their rights, they need a hotel – but their visa expires anyway within a few days and they have to leave the country unless they like to risk a visa violation which is not recommended for any future airline pilot.
That leaves them the option of fighting for their legal rights from home – good luck with that.
Damage assessment:
The dream of becoming an airline pilot has become very unlikely, as they lost a lot of money and have not received the training yet. In most cases they now have a huge debt that will have to be paid back. Better get a job in order to pay these debts off, as opposed to continue any education!
“Lucky” are those which have (former) rich parents, as they blew only their money.
In addition, the European regulations are by far not as streamlined as Europe would like us to believe that. Some of these kids have passed some exams, however these might not be acknowledged by other European authorities, except their home country, Ireland in this case. Thus further eliminating alternatives and options for these victims.
Most likely their foreseeable future is ruined.
Financial Dispute Shuts Down Training Center
In your issue 151/07 from 7/7 2012
I lost count how often I had to read reports like this or very similar (CabAir, Jet University, Aussie Air, Tab Express, Capt Program, ACA, Silverstate etc, pp. to name just a few !!!) but it always makes me very angry as our industry is harmed in a way that cannot be put in numbers.
As you know I am operating a flight school and we have a good portion of our customers coming from outside the USA, mainly Europe.
Allow me to remark on a few things with regards to these recurring situations.
Whenever something like this happens, the victims are the students:
• They are the one who have no adequate education for the money they spent,
• Are stranded in a foreign country (the USA) with a visa that usually expires, as the sponsor (the school) is now not existing anymore,
• Might have legal options – but in reality don’t, because:
• Very often it is a jungle of contracts designed to protect only the scam artists and that is hard to untangle even for lawyers.
• In any case they are usually young kids in their early twenties who would need to bring legal actions against a defunct company in a foreign country !?!
• Oh yes, and did I mention, they are now completely out of money and their visa is either expired or soon will?!
Also, they should forget about any help from where they are, because nobody is responsible for anything.
Admitted, there is only so much any student can do to find out if a school is trustworthy or not.
Admitted, some of these operators have (or had) been in business for quite some time.
Admitted, some have (or had) a good name and reputation and a good track history.
Admitted, the information through online media and forums is not necessarily outspoken on potential red flags.
However, there is one clear benchmark which I meanwhile consider as a telltale for unethical business practices:
Upfront payments for future training
If an operator collects money for future services and uses these to cover past operating expenses, it is the very definition of a Ponzi scheme.
Every time there are not enough “new spenders” (victims), the scheme collapses because it cannot sustain on regular business.
Or to use an aviation metaphor: That operation is constantly flying behind the power curve
The crash is inevitable, it is just a question of time when it occurs.
I am preaching this for more than 10 years now, there is NO REASON from the students perspective, to pay upfront for services to be received sometime down the road.
There is no reason for the operator either, except to collect a lot of money before he encounters the expenses.
The problem is that sooner or later this money will be used for expenses and investments that are not directly connected to the training of the person that made this payment originally.
That is the moment when “level flight is abandoned” so to speak.
The nose has come up, but no power has been added. This plane will fall behind the power curve, sooner or later!
My advice to a potential student - If an operator asks for unreasonable payments upfront, walk away!
And unreasonable is anything beyond some admin fees, actual expenses like shipping of materials or modest reservation fees.
A company that collects ten-thousands of tuition fees (which often adds up to millions, due to large classes) is questionable at best, in most cases outright suspicious.
Here is a hypothetical scenario:
Let’s say some students are 4 months into their training and have only 25 hours dual received yet (not uncommon, unfortunately)
Now their school goes out of business and their visa expires as a consequence of that.
Let’s further assume they have paid only for the services they received so far.
Damage assessment:
They can transfer or extend with their visa to a different school, or they can go home and regroup.
They have paid for and received 25 hours of flight training, which nobody can take away from them, something they could have done in 1 month.
In essence, they have lost 3 months of time – a minor nuisance when you are in your early twenties.
Here is a look at the scenario that is described in your article:
If these students are in the USA for longer than 6 months already, they cannot transfer their visa but have to go home to their country and start the process all over.
They will lose their housing as it is part of the deal. If they like to stay and fight for their rights, they need a hotel – but their visa expires anyway within a few days and they have to leave the country unless they like to risk a visa violation which is not recommended for any future airline pilot.
That leaves them the option of fighting for their legal rights from home – good luck with that.
Damage assessment:
The dream of becoming an airline pilot has become very unlikely, as they lost a lot of money and have not received the training yet. In most cases they now have a huge debt that will have to be paid back. Better get a job in order to pay these debts off, as opposed to continue any education!
“Lucky” are those which have (former) rich parents, as they blew only their money.
In addition, the European regulations are by far not as streamlined as Europe would like us to believe that. Some of these kids have passed some exams, however these might not be acknowledged by other European authorities, except their home country, Ireland in this case. Thus further eliminating alternatives and options for these victims.
Most likely their foreseeable future is ruined.
Last edited by B2N2; 23rd Jul 2012 at 13:44.
