Do a PPL first !
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Do a PPL first !
Here, and other places, one reads the hopes and dreams of people (mostly young men) desperate to become professional pilots. And quite commonly they have decided to launch head first into a very expensive course of professional flying training, despite no prior flying experience.
I'm just going to have a rant now, because increasingly I think somebody needs to.
DO A PPL FIRST BOYS !!!!!!
Why?
- To find out if you actually enjoy flying
- To find out if you have any aptitude for flying
- To discover if you have the motivation to keep going through flying training
- To de-risk the whole thing before you commit huge amounts of money and time to this endeavour.
I don't honestly think it matters all that much what sort of PPL you do - an ICAO (insert country of your choice / residence) is the most obvious, but microlights, gliders, motorgliders will all tick all of these boxes, even if it may add a few thousand to your eventual bill to CPL/ATPL. If you are going for military pilot of-course, they want to see some experience and a lot of motivation, and really won't care what you got that flying in.
But I can see absolutely no good reason for anybody to dive into an incredibly expensive and time consuming course of training without getting some basic experience of flying first - which basically means to PPL (or equivalent in, say, gliders) level first.
Does anybody disagree? If so, why?
G
I'm just going to have a rant now, because increasingly I think somebody needs to.
DO A PPL FIRST BOYS !!!!!!
Why?
- To find out if you actually enjoy flying
- To find out if you have any aptitude for flying
- To discover if you have the motivation to keep going through flying training
- To de-risk the whole thing before you commit huge amounts of money and time to this endeavour.
I don't honestly think it matters all that much what sort of PPL you do - an ICAO (insert country of your choice / residence) is the most obvious, but microlights, gliders, motorgliders will all tick all of these boxes, even if it may add a few thousand to your eventual bill to CPL/ATPL. If you are going for military pilot of-course, they want to see some experience and a lot of motivation, and really won't care what you got that flying in.
But I can see absolutely no good reason for anybody to dive into an incredibly expensive and time consuming course of training without getting some basic experience of flying first - which basically means to PPL (or equivalent in, say, gliders) level first.
Does anybody disagree? If so, why?
G
Nobody can disagree, its quite right. However you will find that a large number of the guys and girls that dive into integrated courses do indeed have a PPL or at least completed a large chunk of the syllabus.
In fact from what I've seen over the last few years those who have failed to make it have generally had no prior experience of aviation in any form.
It helps, but luck plays a bigger part with the risks now involved with ever decreasing reward.
In fact from what I've seen over the last few years those who have failed to make it have generally had no prior experience of aviation in any form.
It helps, but luck plays a bigger part with the risks now involved with ever decreasing reward.
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Definitely agree with you Genghis.
Eighteen months ago I was more than ready to have my parents re-mortgage to allow me to get into a big integrated school and aim for the shiny jet job. Now, having earned and spent thousands on my PPL, I've learnt a lot about my motivation for flying, and the revelations have been surprising:
First revelation: Jets don't interest me.
Visiting the open days and reading the brochures of the 'big three' FTOs had me convinced that there was nothing better than an airline job. I was more than willing to start gambling on this career and trying to get a job in n Airbus cockpit. Now, having flown and experienced glass cockpits and GPS in GA aircraft, I suspect now that I personally much prefer whizz wheels and clockwork gauges. And actually getting to fly the aircraft.
Second revelation: I'm not as committed as I thought
I love the flying and I find the planning and studying for the PPL fascinating, but I'm seriously beginning to struggle to justify the monetary side of the commitment. Your results may vary of course, but for a wannabe in my can-just-about-afford-this situation, I'd advise serious thought about learning to fly. If you've got the money sitting in your account, go for it but if not, the astonishing cost of flight training can be difficult to stomach. Have another hobby. Two hours per month (weather permitting) is not an awful lot to spend all your disposable income on. That's 0.3% of the month, remember.
I started my training fanatically committed to flying and more than happy to work an eight hour shift for twenty minutes in the cockpit. Frankly, I started my PPL for fun and to show my 'commitment to flying' to the big integrated schools and airlines.
Now I've got a fair amount of savings that I planned to use to finish my PPL intensively with this week, and much to the stunned silence of my family and friends, I've spent this morning clearing a space in the garage to accommodate a classic car restoration project. Dad's got the tools and expertise and I've got the willingness to learn and commit myself to something I've been daydreaming about for years alongside flying. It's a hobby I'll be able to share with friends and others, a hobby that isn't weather dependant and, although it won't be cheap, it certainly won't cost £170 per hour. It'll push my PPL test back a few months, but at the moment I'm not too fussed.
Perhaps I qualify for the dreaded 'not motivated enough' label, and perhaps I deserve it. Better to find that out now rather than halfway through some integrated course. I love flying, but staying motivated enough to see even a basic PPL through requires one to put up with constant silly costs (£34 for a kneeboard anyone?), constantly fickle weather and plenty of 0.1-hours-more-than-expected moments. It wore me down and made me wanting to find a more sensible hobby.
Third Revelation: Wannabes, heed my warning. The whole 'pilot ego' thing gets old fast.
Sounds like a trivial point, but just don't go for the lanyards and epaulettes look. Don't put 'pilot' in your facebook bio unless you actually have a pilot's licence. I and probably most seventeen year old male student pilots have gone through this initial phase, and I cringe when I think about how I used to swagger around after my first few lessons making it known to everyone within earshot that I flew a plane at the weekend. Cool I was not.
Fouth Revelation (thanks to PPRuNe): I'm not very concise with forum posts.
Sorry! But I felt compelled to reply to this thread, to warn wannabes that actually, as committed as you may feel staring out, you really can't make the judgement on whether flying's for you until you've tried it properly. A Trial Lesson is helpful, but there's no substitute for a full course of flying training, and it's best to go for the £7k one rather than the £80k one.
To stick at a PPL, you'll need a lot of commitment to learning and studying, but I'd argue that these days in the UK you also need a hell of a lot more commitment to paying incredible prices for simple things like protractors and chart pens. Not to mention being in the 21st century and still trawling through TAFs and NOTAMs that look like they've arrived fresh from an Enigma machine before boarding a tired old Cessna and setting forth in a blaze of ravaged bank balances and highly leaded fuel.
Eighteen months ago I was more than ready to have my parents re-mortgage to allow me to get into a big integrated school and aim for the shiny jet job. Now, having earned and spent thousands on my PPL, I've learnt a lot about my motivation for flying, and the revelations have been surprising:
First revelation: Jets don't interest me.
Visiting the open days and reading the brochures of the 'big three' FTOs had me convinced that there was nothing better than an airline job. I was more than willing to start gambling on this career and trying to get a job in n Airbus cockpit. Now, having flown and experienced glass cockpits and GPS in GA aircraft, I suspect now that I personally much prefer whizz wheels and clockwork gauges. And actually getting to fly the aircraft.
Second revelation: I'm not as committed as I thought
I love the flying and I find the planning and studying for the PPL fascinating, but I'm seriously beginning to struggle to justify the monetary side of the commitment. Your results may vary of course, but for a wannabe in my can-just-about-afford-this situation, I'd advise serious thought about learning to fly. If you've got the money sitting in your account, go for it but if not, the astonishing cost of flight training can be difficult to stomach. Have another hobby. Two hours per month (weather permitting) is not an awful lot to spend all your disposable income on. That's 0.3% of the month, remember.
I started my training fanatically committed to flying and more than happy to work an eight hour shift for twenty minutes in the cockpit. Frankly, I started my PPL for fun and to show my 'commitment to flying' to the big integrated schools and airlines.
Now I've got a fair amount of savings that I planned to use to finish my PPL intensively with this week, and much to the stunned silence of my family and friends, I've spent this morning clearing a space in the garage to accommodate a classic car restoration project. Dad's got the tools and expertise and I've got the willingness to learn and commit myself to something I've been daydreaming about for years alongside flying. It's a hobby I'll be able to share with friends and others, a hobby that isn't weather dependant and, although it won't be cheap, it certainly won't cost £170 per hour. It'll push my PPL test back a few months, but at the moment I'm not too fussed.
Perhaps I qualify for the dreaded 'not motivated enough' label, and perhaps I deserve it. Better to find that out now rather than halfway through some integrated course. I love flying, but staying motivated enough to see even a basic PPL through requires one to put up with constant silly costs (£34 for a kneeboard anyone?), constantly fickle weather and plenty of 0.1-hours-more-than-expected moments. It wore me down and made me wanting to find a more sensible hobby.
Third Revelation: Wannabes, heed my warning. The whole 'pilot ego' thing gets old fast.
Sounds like a trivial point, but just don't go for the lanyards and epaulettes look. Don't put 'pilot' in your facebook bio unless you actually have a pilot's licence. I and probably most seventeen year old male student pilots have gone through this initial phase, and I cringe when I think about how I used to swagger around after my first few lessons making it known to everyone within earshot that I flew a plane at the weekend. Cool I was not.
Fouth Revelation (thanks to PPRuNe): I'm not very concise with forum posts.
Sorry! But I felt compelled to reply to this thread, to warn wannabes that actually, as committed as you may feel staring out, you really can't make the judgement on whether flying's for you until you've tried it properly. A Trial Lesson is helpful, but there's no substitute for a full course of flying training, and it's best to go for the £7k one rather than the £80k one.
To stick at a PPL, you'll need a lot of commitment to learning and studying, but I'd argue that these days in the UK you also need a hell of a lot more commitment to paying incredible prices for simple things like protractors and chart pens. Not to mention being in the 21st century and still trawling through TAFs and NOTAMs that look like they've arrived fresh from an Enigma machine before boarding a tired old Cessna and setting forth in a blaze of ravaged bank balances and highly leaded fuel.
Last edited by Jetdriver; 3rd Jun 2012 at 20:22.
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Well said Genghis.
Very useful advice here. I have said on this forum a number of times that a second/backup career or job is also a very good idea
I have actually had "sponsored" students in Integrated ATPL ground school some with ZERO flying hours, not even a trial lesson. Others straight from six form with no life skills or experience.
Back in the days of a real BA sponsorship one student decided he didn't like flying just as he was about to take his IR!. BA were not amused.
Very useful advice here. I have said on this forum a number of times that a second/backup career or job is also a very good idea
I have actually had "sponsored" students in Integrated ATPL ground school some with ZERO flying hours, not even a trial lesson. Others straight from six form with no life skills or experience.
Back in the days of a real BA sponsorship one student decided he didn't like flying just as he was about to take his IR!. BA were not amused.
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Very sound advice Genghis!
As an 18 year old with a PPL(A), I cant emphasise enough how valuable the whole experience was. It took me three and a half years to gain my PPL, having starting the licence at the tender age of 14. It therefore reiterated the sense of motivation that I had when embarking on the start of the course. Aptitude was also found in the very early stages of my PPL. It also gave me an immense realisation of the sorts of pressures professional pilots go under from day to day, especially when performing my solo cross country under some very trying conditions.
I now feel a lot more prepared when it comes to professional flight training, and firmly know it something I want to do as a career. I would like to add however, that if you are thinking of applying to one of the airline mentored schemes then it is quite crucial to keep your hours low after the completion of your PPL. BA's FPP had a guideline of 100 hours total time being and absolute maximum, however some MPLs have definite cut off points for applications.
Hope this helps.
As an 18 year old with a PPL(A), I cant emphasise enough how valuable the whole experience was. It took me three and a half years to gain my PPL, having starting the licence at the tender age of 14. It therefore reiterated the sense of motivation that I had when embarking on the start of the course. Aptitude was also found in the very early stages of my PPL. It also gave me an immense realisation of the sorts of pressures professional pilots go under from day to day, especially when performing my solo cross country under some very trying conditions.
I now feel a lot more prepared when it comes to professional flight training, and firmly know it something I want to do as a career. I would like to add however, that if you are thinking of applying to one of the airline mentored schemes then it is quite crucial to keep your hours low after the completion of your PPL. BA's FPP had a guideline of 100 hours total time being and absolute maximum, however some MPLs have definite cut off points for applications.
Hope this helps.
Last edited by Shawrey; 5th Jun 2012 at 10:51. Reason: Grammar
PPRuNe Handmaiden
This is true, however, there's nothing stopping you from flying a glider. Flying for a fraction of the cost. Not to mention the contacts. 
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Another way to look at it may be that you get a second chance to consolidate your basic flying skills, improving the chances of doing the rest well and in near-minimum hours.
G
G
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Genghis, your advice is classic good advice, and I couldn't agree more.
But from what I gathered in this period of research for my flight training, I guess it's all a matter of money-time convenience.
You see, taking a frozen-ATPL seems demanding but in the end you learn all you need to learn, fly different types of airplanes, and do it in 1 year's time. Going the step-by-step way is more expensive and more time consuming. Plus, flight school really don't care of students who do PPLs; they pay attention only to those who pay ATPL.
It's just like going to the supermarket: 3 melons at 2$ each or 4 melons at 4$? Who has got time nowadays to learn as an apprentice? People prefers to fail quickly instead of wasting years on something that in the end is not what they want. In the XXI century you might spend a lot of money for ATPL but it's far less money that PPL+IR+NIGHT+ME+CPL (and other things to do in between each of those) and it's done in one third of the time. And if you think about people in their 40s, how much time left they have to learn a new profession and dive into the search for a job afterwards? Not much.
This maybe not my personal view, but it's what I see from others.
But from what I gathered in this period of research for my flight training, I guess it's all a matter of money-time convenience.
You see, taking a frozen-ATPL seems demanding but in the end you learn all you need to learn, fly different types of airplanes, and do it in 1 year's time. Going the step-by-step way is more expensive and more time consuming. Plus, flight school really don't care of students who do PPLs; they pay attention only to those who pay ATPL.
It's just like going to the supermarket: 3 melons at 2$ each or 4 melons at 4$? Who has got time nowadays to learn as an apprentice? People prefers to fail quickly instead of wasting years on something that in the end is not what they want. In the XXI century you might spend a lot of money for ATPL but it's far less money that PPL+IR+NIGHT+ME+CPL (and other things to do in between each of those) and it's done in one third of the time. And if you think about people in their 40s, how much time left they have to learn a new profession and dive into the search for a job afterwards? Not much.
This maybe not my personal view, but it's what I see from others.
Last edited by Dogfactory; 11th Jun 2012 at 11:45.
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Great Info
The original post and replies have been very enlightening to a person who is seriously considering a PPL with a definite view to a CPL. It seems there are two routes; modular or integrated. I'm 45, so time is not really on my side, neither are finances, but if I've learned one thing in those 45 years, life is way too short not to follow your dreams. If I bail out (sure you guys haven't heard that pun b4) half way thru, then at least I can say I gave it a shot, sure I may have wasted a few grand, but I can die without that regret on my mind.
However, I do not intend to fail, I only need to research and listen to all you experienced guys out there and your good advice. So glad I stumbled across this highly informative site. I'm off to have a good old root around it now.
However, I do not intend to fail, I only need to research and listen to all you experienced guys out there and your good advice. So glad I stumbled across this highly informative site. I'm off to have a good old root around it now.
