Pilot Training College - Florida Ops closure
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Europe
Age: 12
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The new Pilots Terminated Course of Ireland's CEO,a Mr Bob Diamond
has moved quickly to quash rumours he was re-branding the
battered companies image with that of a phoenix as its central logo.
Opting instead for an Ostrich as quote "this story will run & run"
and it more adequately reflected the "companies core values"
An Ostrich is of course an Oversize,flightless bird which is prone
to sticking its head in the sand in times of trouble.
If only losing £80k upwards were a laughing matter.
has moved quickly to quash rumours he was re-branding the
battered companies image with that of a phoenix as its central logo.
Opting instead for an Ostrich as quote "this story will run & run"
and it more adequately reflected the "companies core values"
An Ostrich is of course an Oversize,flightless bird which is prone
to sticking its head in the sand in times of trouble.
If only losing £80k upwards were a laughing matter.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: EGYD
Posts: 1,073
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am sure that anyone moving to another training provider will have their bull***t Detector set to maximum sensitivity and turn on to a reciprocal heading if they hear this guff again.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ireland
Age: 45
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How is this the responsibility of the Irish Tax payer
I don't see the point in staging a protest in front of Dail Eireann. This is not the responsibility of the Irish Tax payer or the government of Ireland. This is down to a company who badly and incompetently managed their finances in my opinion.
I attended P.T.C. over 3 years ago for the suitability test, to say what unfolded over the day was unprofessional was an understatement. For me that day said enough about the outfit. First impressions last!
I have sympathy for these guys, it is completely unfair that they are at such a financial loss. But I think they should focus their frustration and energy elsewhere. There are serious questions to answer as to whether a company knowingly took money and continued to trade while insolvent.
I attended P.T.C. over 3 years ago for the suitability test, to say what unfolded over the day was unprofessional was an understatement. For me that day said enough about the outfit. First impressions last!
I have sympathy for these guys, it is completely unfair that they are at such a financial loss. But I think they should focus their frustration and energy elsewhere. There are serious questions to answer as to whether a company knowingly took money and continued to trade while insolvent.
Last edited by Pjlot; 16th Jul 2012 at 14:07.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Poughkeepsie
Posts: 236
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pjlot they are protesting about where the regualtor was in all this? Yes that's the IAA in their fancy 'Irish Times' building. They had plenty of trips over to Florida business class etc to 'audit' the operation, so what were their results? 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They had plenty of trips over to Florida business class etc to 'audit' the operation, so what were their results?
Everyone these days is 95% accountable. It's that last 5% that prevents accountability.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Neither Here Nor There
Posts: 1,121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Everyone these days is 95% accountable. It's that last 5% that prevents accountability.
Your BRNAV equipment must be within 5NM of accuracy on 95% of occasions (PRNAV 1NM).
What about the other 5%?
For lack of accountability in recent times, as well as Cabair, don't forget Bristol Aviation - the directors of Bristol Flying Centre, which also owned Bristol Aviation, were pretty quick to adopt slopey shoulders, whilst making sure their own personal wealth was untouched.
The authorities need to be more accountable to the end user - they are quick enough to take the money when times are good.
Last edited by 2close; 16th Jul 2012 at 14:48.
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: huj
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well they had their protest today. Much good it will do them. Their naivety is very evident. They seem convinced they Irish taxpayer is going to foot the bill for their mistake and PTCs negligence. I can absolutely assure you that will not happen.
Apart from anything else the money isn't there and if it was it would be better spent on something useful like hospitals and schools.
In any case they need to realise that the jobs are not there for them even if they finish. Another reason the goverment isn't going to throw good money after bad.
Their attitude is also poor and abusive to someone gently pointing out the truth to them. This is duly noted and when one of this individuals comes knocking, looking for a job. They will find out just how small the aviation community is within Ireland.
Meanwhile today PTC went into examinership which presumably means they intend to resurect the company. What optimists? As if anyone will ever touch them again with a thousand foot bargepole.
Apart from anything else the money isn't there and if it was it would be better spent on something useful like hospitals and schools.
In any case they need to realise that the jobs are not there for them even if they finish. Another reason the goverment isn't going to throw good money after bad.
Their attitude is also poor and abusive to someone gently pointing out the truth to them. This is duly noted and when one of this individuals comes knocking, looking for a job. They will find out just how small the aviation community is within Ireland.
Meanwhile today PTC went into examinership which presumably means they intend to resurect the company. What optimists? As if anyone will ever touch them again with a thousand foot bargepole.
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Europe
Age: 12
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here is a piece extracted from the website of local Waterford radio station WLR FM.
The High Court has appointed an Examiner to the Waterford based Pilot Training College
It follows its well publicised dispute with the Florida Institute of Technology which PTC says has left it with a major financial deficit. An Independent Accountant told the court that PTC has a reasonable prospect of survival if its restructured.A number of parties have also indicated an interest in investing in a restructured enterprise and the Interim Examiner , Michael McAteer of Grant Thornton, will now engage with those parties and the Irish Aviation Authority in a bid to restore the company's licence.
The High Court has appointed an Examiner to the Waterford based Pilot Training College
It follows its well publicised dispute with the Florida Institute of Technology which PTC says has left it with a major financial deficit. An Independent Accountant told the court that PTC has a reasonable prospect of survival if its restructured.A number of parties have also indicated an interest in investing in a restructured enterprise and the Interim Examiner , Michael McAteer of Grant Thornton, will now engage with those parties and the Irish Aviation Authority in a bid to restore the company's licence.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: er...Ireland
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As if anyone will ever touch them again with a thousand foot bargepole.
A quick wipe over with 'Brasso Neck' will have the scam up and running again.
Never dismiss the propensity of drunks and babies to snatch at the shiniest bauble.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: fl350
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
posted by bluecode
Their attitude is also poor and abusive to someone gently pointing out the truth to them. This is duly noted and when one of this individuals comes knocking, looking for a job. They will find out just how small the aviation community is within Ireland.
Their attitude is also poor and abusive to someone gently pointing out the truth to them. This is duly noted and when one of this individuals comes knocking, looking for a job. They will find out just how small the aviation community is within Ireland.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: all over the place
Age: 63
Posts: 514
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
chapter 2
The dream morphed from training pilots to a dream sold to young pilots with false claims, misleading advertising, slick marketing by clowns wearing four bars (a telecoms saleswoman, a failed CPL pilot and a bathroom salesman who looked like a hairdresser all lead by a self-styled captain (he only holds a JAA CPL with less than 500 hours right seat ‘jet time’) with the sole intention of making pure profits. All paths greased by complicit regulatory authorities and the US higher level management who wanted part of the Hollywood style big success movie.
Edgeworthless, for a period of time let his Florida team do what they did best which was train pilots. Unfortunately, his ego couldn’t take it as it was going too well without him so he returned and as happened several times over the years snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
Any PTC staff with talent and morals were underhandedly forced out for cheaper, incompetent, inexperienced morons whose brief was to take as much from the students as possible by any means. This included flouting Quality, Standards and Safety with several breaches of rules and regulations. If you complained, you were transferred to the EXIT slide and the door to your office became the door to the carpark.
Several high flying executives were drafted in from other places to sit on the board, again to give the impression of a sound organisation but after a few months dealing with Edgeworthless’s ego they all walked or ran away, usually laughing.
A management team that grew the company 400% in two years were told they were incompetent and that 'one man and his dog' knew better.
Ask how many Chief Flight Instructors PTC have lost? PTC couldn’t maintain training continuity with such a high turnover of disrespected and disgruntled training staff. No-one with any ability wanted to work for them.....
Edgeworthless, for a period of time let his Florida team do what they did best which was train pilots. Unfortunately, his ego couldn’t take it as it was going too well without him so he returned and as happened several times over the years snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
Any PTC staff with talent and morals were underhandedly forced out for cheaper, incompetent, inexperienced morons whose brief was to take as much from the students as possible by any means. This included flouting Quality, Standards and Safety with several breaches of rules and regulations. If you complained, you were transferred to the EXIT slide and the door to your office became the door to the carpark.
Several high flying executives were drafted in from other places to sit on the board, again to give the impression of a sound organisation but after a few months dealing with Edgeworthless’s ego they all walked or ran away, usually laughing.
A management team that grew the company 400% in two years were told they were incompetent and that 'one man and his dog' knew better.
Ask how many Chief Flight Instructors PTC have lost? PTC couldn’t maintain training continuity with such a high turnover of disrespected and disgruntled training staff. No-one with any ability wanted to work for them.....
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: huj
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Indeed, small in every sense of the word, as your veiled threat has amply proven.
It's attitude.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 14 days away 14 at home
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
An Independent Accountant told the court that PTC has a reasonable prospect of survival if its restructured.
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Europe
Age: 12
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Examinership
Apologies to those of you already in the know,but here is a definition of what examinership actually means.Interesting to see how the part about not unfairly prejudicial to any creditor(s) '..Pans out
Examinership is a process in Irish law whereby the protection of the Court is obtained to assist the survival of a company. It allows a company to restructure with the approval of the High Court
In order to obtain the appointment of an examiner it is necessary to petition the High Court and persuade the court that there is a reasonable prospect of survival of the company and the whole or part of its undertaking if an examiner is appointed.
The examiner has a fixed period of 70 days (extensible to 100 days) inwhich to prepare a scheme of arrangement, which must be approved by at least one class of creditors of the company. If it can be shown that the scheme provides for the survival of the company and the whole or part of its undertaking and that it is not unfairly prejudicial to any creditor(s) of the company the cour thas discretion to approve the scheme.
In most schemes of arrangement an investor will invest in the company and part of the money invested will be used to pay a dividend to each class of creditors
Examinership is a process in Irish law whereby the protection of the Court is obtained to assist the survival of a company. It allows a company to restructure with the approval of the High Court
In order to obtain the appointment of an examiner it is necessary to petition the High Court and persuade the court that there is a reasonable prospect of survival of the company and the whole or part of its undertaking if an examiner is appointed.
The examiner has a fixed period of 70 days (extensible to 100 days) inwhich to prepare a scheme of arrangement, which must be approved by at least one class of creditors of the company. If it can be shown that the scheme provides for the survival of the company and the whole or part of its undertaking and that it is not unfairly prejudicial to any creditor(s) of the company the cour thas discretion to approve the scheme.
In most schemes of arrangement an investor will invest in the company and part of the money invested will be used to pay a dividend to each class of creditors
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: fl350
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not so veiled. There is a basic test when someone walks onto the airfield. Most fail. Rare enough the fail before they even get to the airfield.
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: huj
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ah yes, the submissive deference needed to bolster the inflated egos of self declared greatness.
The last thing you need is submissive deference. Not many pilots could be accused of that. So less of the ad hominen please.
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Kitty Hawk
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The dream morphed from training pilots to a dream sold to young pilots with false claims, misleading advertising, slick marketing by clowns wearing four bars (a telecoms saleswoman, a failed CPL pilot and a bathroom salesman who looked like a hairdresser all lead by a self-styled captain (he only holds a JAA CPL with less than 500 hours right seat ‘jet time’) with the sole intention of making pure profits.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: all over the place
Age: 63
Posts: 514
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What is it with all this diversive attacking the of the students? are we trying to divert attention away from the real issue?
As usual on pprune there is always some smart ass who uses hindsight to tell people what, when and how they would have done it better
Why not kick people when they are down?...smart move. I guess the bankers that cost the world its economy were victims too...
The only issue is...
the students money is missing!!
The latest article in the Independant is lies, lies and more lies. An Aer Lingus contract that was lost?? There was never a contract with Aer Lingus, a request for Tender which went to several schools for which they were objectively turned down.
It says something if the National Carrier isn't interested in supporting the biggest national school....
If the airlines were so happy with PTC why did they all ask for independent confidential reports from several ex-PTC employees as to the conduct of the upper management.
It is now reported that the company is almost 10 million euros in debt, how is that possible when the money has come in and they haven't paid any bills.
WHERE IS THE MONEY? WHERE IS THE MONEY? WHERE IS THE MONEY? GET IT?
As usual on pprune there is always some smart ass who uses hindsight to tell people what, when and how they would have done it better
Why not kick people when they are down?...smart move. I guess the bankers that cost the world its economy were victims too...
The only issue is...
the students money is missing!!
The latest article in the Independant is lies, lies and more lies. An Aer Lingus contract that was lost?? There was never a contract with Aer Lingus, a request for Tender which went to several schools for which they were objectively turned down.
It says something if the National Carrier isn't interested in supporting the biggest national school....
If the airlines were so happy with PTC why did they all ask for independent confidential reports from several ex-PTC employees as to the conduct of the upper management.
It is now reported that the company is almost 10 million euros in debt, how is that possible when the money has come in and they haven't paid any bills.
WHERE IS THE MONEY? WHERE IS THE MONEY? WHERE IS THE MONEY? GET IT?
Last edited by pilotbear; 20th Jul 2012 at 06:54.
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: FL410
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think we all agree on one thing : it was a stupid idea to pay the whole course upfront. But I'm sure the telecoms saleswoman did her job very well and made it look like the brightest idea for a highway to an A320 right seat. Don't forget they got a 400'000€ subvention from the government, and I don't think they would have got it without working hard to make the company LOOK good.
The guys think that because PTC obtained the approval from the IAA means the IAA is responsible for their loss, which can be true. But think about it : students lost 80Ks each, but the IAA lost 400K€ ! They have a chance to fight along with the IAA against the one who is really responsible for what happened, but they choose to argue with their ally !
With regards to how PTC lost so much money, I can't believe a flight school that has so many students can ever lose a single cent. They never allow you to "spend" money that they don't have on your student account, which means they don't spend money they don't have (knowing they weren't paying their bills, they didn't spend money at all).
On top of this, as you pay for a "0 to frozen ATPL" package, all the costs are "rounded up" with extraordinary margins.
As an example :the students are sent to FL for the weather (which is **** the whole summer) AND for the lower costs of flight time in the US. HOWEVER, a Piper Seminole costs 330USD/h if rented to FIT. PTC had us paying around 500 EUROS per hour. 25 hours of Seminole in the US per student, 200 students in, I'll let you do the maths. The same thing applies to accomodations and other planes. If they're not making billions of profit, no one else does and even Ryanair is bankrupt.
Now, if you look at it, you will find out that the CEO HHTGCFL (His Highness The Greatest Captain For Life) Mike Edgeworth, who has flown as much as 400~500 hours in a Hawker jet (don't hide it, I know you're impressed) created several different ghost companies doing NOTHING, some of them based in a nice condo 1437 Pineapple avenue, Melbourne, FL, and that he seems to have invested in real estate in Florida. If you don't see the link, don't even go to a class 1 medical examination, you're blind.
To sum this up :
PTC owes money to :
- FIT for 1M€
- the IAA for 400K€
- the students for an unknown amount of money
The money has "disappeared" and the company has 10M€ in debt, but the CEO has plenty of money.
There must be a black hole somewhere, absorbing any euro or dollar floating around. And if that's the case, it will be proven as soon as the Justice investigates the accounts of PTC.
The guys think that because PTC obtained the approval from the IAA means the IAA is responsible for their loss, which can be true. But think about it : students lost 80Ks each, but the IAA lost 400K€ ! They have a chance to fight along with the IAA against the one who is really responsible for what happened, but they choose to argue with their ally !
With regards to how PTC lost so much money, I can't believe a flight school that has so many students can ever lose a single cent. They never allow you to "spend" money that they don't have on your student account, which means they don't spend money they don't have (knowing they weren't paying their bills, they didn't spend money at all).
On top of this, as you pay for a "0 to frozen ATPL" package, all the costs are "rounded up" with extraordinary margins.
As an example :the students are sent to FL for the weather (which is **** the whole summer) AND for the lower costs of flight time in the US. HOWEVER, a Piper Seminole costs 330USD/h if rented to FIT. PTC had us paying around 500 EUROS per hour. 25 hours of Seminole in the US per student, 200 students in, I'll let you do the maths. The same thing applies to accomodations and other planes. If they're not making billions of profit, no one else does and even Ryanair is bankrupt.
Now, if you look at it, you will find out that the CEO HHTGCFL (His Highness The Greatest Captain For Life) Mike Edgeworth, who has flown as much as 400~500 hours in a Hawker jet (don't hide it, I know you're impressed) created several different ghost companies doing NOTHING, some of them based in a nice condo 1437 Pineapple avenue, Melbourne, FL, and that he seems to have invested in real estate in Florida. If you don't see the link, don't even go to a class 1 medical examination, you're blind.
To sum this up :
PTC owes money to :
- FIT for 1M€
- the IAA for 400K€
- the students for an unknown amount of money
The money has "disappeared" and the company has 10M€ in debt, but the CEO has plenty of money.
There must be a black hole somewhere, absorbing any euro or dollar floating around. And if that's the case, it will be proven as soon as the Justice investigates the accounts of PTC.