ACA 'ProPilot'
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: "Dark side of the moon"
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Eastern Europe has good options for modular training. I went to Bartolini (www.flyinpoland) which gets overall good marks from students but I am sure there are more if you look for them.
Going modular saves you so much cash that at the end you will have money left to live off when you are jobless
Going modular saves you so much cash that at the end you will have money left to live off when you are jobless
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: UK
Age: 37
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As with any flight school (or any business) the people with bad experiences are much more likely to post than the people with good experiences.
Just to add a few facts to some of the above posts...The students (no instructor) who over shot the runway at the Everglades were in violation of school policy by being there (2400ft runway is well under the company mins), they also botched the landing and failed to go around - you can hardly blame the school for that.
The accident in 2010 mentioned by Arunaki (above) was not in an OFT/ACA aircraft, but did involve students and an instructor from the school.
The engine fire - I know for a fact that engine fire drills are hammered into the students throughout the entire training regime, so again - schools fault that the students didn't follow procedures?
I wholeheartedly agree that the command of the english language is somewhat lacking amongst some of the students at the school, and I can't comment on the package they're sold. However, any proactive student browsing these forums will do their homework before spending thousands of dollars on a course. It will be obvious to anybody that they will need to speak english, and if they don't already then they should learn to. Even if you speak enough just to get by, it's going to extend your training by a fair amount of hours. I have seen people take 70-80 hours to get a PPL (Isn't 60-70 the US average?) but then I've also seen others (at this school!) pass well with less than 50.
Many of the problems come from the attitude (that some of!) the students seem to have - get by with as little effort as possible. Every pilot here will have done some sort of solo hour building to gain experience, much of that cross country. It's designed to be a learning experience, however it's treated as an inconvenience. The amount of pilots that I have seen hour building by following the GPS on an iPad (rather than map and compass) was disappointing. This level of effort spills across into their instrument training and subsequently their commercial training - and then they complain that the course has cost $$$'s more than it should have.
I'm not saying any of this to defend the school, just to demonstrate that it's not just the school at fault, it's also the students mentality.
Just to add a few facts to some of the above posts...The students (no instructor) who over shot the runway at the Everglades were in violation of school policy by being there (2400ft runway is well under the company mins), they also botched the landing and failed to go around - you can hardly blame the school for that.
The accident in 2010 mentioned by Arunaki (above) was not in an OFT/ACA aircraft, but did involve students and an instructor from the school.
The engine fire - I know for a fact that engine fire drills are hammered into the students throughout the entire training regime, so again - schools fault that the students didn't follow procedures?
I wholeheartedly agree that the command of the english language is somewhat lacking amongst some of the students at the school, and I can't comment on the package they're sold. However, any proactive student browsing these forums will do their homework before spending thousands of dollars on a course. It will be obvious to anybody that they will need to speak english, and if they don't already then they should learn to. Even if you speak enough just to get by, it's going to extend your training by a fair amount of hours. I have seen people take 70-80 hours to get a PPL (Isn't 60-70 the US average?) but then I've also seen others (at this school!) pass well with less than 50.
Many of the problems come from the attitude (that some of!) the students seem to have - get by with as little effort as possible. Every pilot here will have done some sort of solo hour building to gain experience, much of that cross country. It's designed to be a learning experience, however it's treated as an inconvenience. The amount of pilots that I have seen hour building by following the GPS on an iPad (rather than map and compass) was disappointing. This level of effort spills across into their instrument training and subsequently their commercial training - and then they complain that the course has cost $$$'s more than it should have.
I'm not saying any of this to defend the school, just to demonstrate that it's not just the school at fault, it's also the students mentality.
Join Date: Mar 2012
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I don't like wrong...maybe differently informed? 
Simply put - you get what you pay for. The course is very competitively priced, but you're not paying Oxford sums, so don't expect brand new shiny aircraft. That being said, the Kissimmee base has 5 newish (<13yrs old, 2 G1000 equipped) Cessna's available for those that don't like the cadets - just expect to pay a little more.
All the incidents you list can be attributed (for the most part) to pilot error - Runway overshoots (poor planning/decision making), Engine fire's (improper start procedure...yes that's right!). The very sad accident that involved the Scottish Brother AND Sister was not the result of mechanical failure or any other shortcomings in the schools aircraft. Like I said, I'm not saying the maintenance is A+, just remember the PA-28's are getting on a bit, things are bound to break. I happen to know two of the mechanics there very well, and I know for an absolute fact that there is nothing that they wouldn't do to ensure that the aircraft are airworthy and in fit condition for flight. If they were not happy with it, they would not sign it off.
There is no high horse, I'm just a firm believer in taking charge of your own training rather than expecting to be spoon fed by your instructor/ground instructor. Everything you are supposed to know is in those books you are given in the beginning, and that is made pretty clear - yet the books don't get read and the ground school gets blamed for the students lack of knowledge. Maybe he did use his phone the whole time - I'd ask for a refund if you're paying for it - but ultimately it's down to the student to take control of their own training.
I know some very excellent students at that school that will go far in this industry, but I also know many more lazy ones that are wasting their money. I understand that you want to let others know about your poor experience, but I'm mindful that this doesn't turn into another "Bash OFT/ACA" thread, because based on MY experience with the school, it's really not deserved
Simply put - you get what you pay for. The course is very competitively priced, but you're not paying Oxford sums, so don't expect brand new shiny aircraft. That being said, the Kissimmee base has 5 newish (<13yrs old, 2 G1000 equipped) Cessna's available for those that don't like the cadets - just expect to pay a little more.
All the incidents you list can be attributed (for the most part) to pilot error - Runway overshoots (poor planning/decision making), Engine fire's (improper start procedure...yes that's right!). The very sad accident that involved the Scottish Brother AND Sister was not the result of mechanical failure or any other shortcomings in the schools aircraft. Like I said, I'm not saying the maintenance is A+, just remember the PA-28's are getting on a bit, things are bound to break. I happen to know two of the mechanics there very well, and I know for an absolute fact that there is nothing that they wouldn't do to ensure that the aircraft are airworthy and in fit condition for flight. If they were not happy with it, they would not sign it off.
There is no high horse, I'm just a firm believer in taking charge of your own training rather than expecting to be spoon fed by your instructor/ground instructor. Everything you are supposed to know is in those books you are given in the beginning, and that is made pretty clear - yet the books don't get read and the ground school gets blamed for the students lack of knowledge. Maybe he did use his phone the whole time - I'd ask for a refund if you're paying for it - but ultimately it's down to the student to take control of their own training.
I know some very excellent students at that school that will go far in this industry, but I also know many more lazy ones that are wasting their money. I understand that you want to let others know about your poor experience, but I'm mindful that this doesn't turn into another "Bash OFT/ACA" thread, because based on MY experience with the school, it's really not deserved
I really do not understand how you can defend any of that.
No they are not, the opposite is true that is why so many of the *cough* JAA/EASA certified schools in Florida still manage to find students.
And then mystery posters come sing the praise......
Uh..no you don't because you have no idea.
That is why you need to listen to the school and listen to the Instructor as far as how and when to study certain topics.
Books don't read themselves, there we agree
the people with bad experiences are much more likely to post than the people with good experiences.
And then mystery posters come sing the praise......
taking charge of your own training
That is why you need to listen to the school and listen to the Instructor as far as how and when to study certain topics.
Books don't read themselves, there we agree
Last edited by B2N2; 4th Jan 2013 at 17:42.
Join Date: Mar 2012
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Ofcourse you need direction from the instructor, what I meant was if you're not happy with the depth of a lesson on a subject (for example) - then ask for more detail, ask someone else to explain it (another instructor maybe) or read up on it. People are all too happy to be spoon fed the information rather than seeking it out themselves. By take charge I mean get involved.
I guess I am the mystery poster singing their praises! I just came on to correct a few non facts that were posted above, not sell a pro pilot course
I guess I am the mystery poster singing their praises! I just came on to correct a few non facts that were posted above, not sell a pro pilot course
Join Date: Mar 2012
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Not even the prop manufacturer could explain that one. The instructor had just changed aircraft (A solo student had damaged the prop on an airport light and not told anyone) to the aircraft in question - the instructor is also an A&P so you can bet the prop on the new aircraft was heavily scrutinised. Yet these things happen and are (in the absence of a crystal ball) unavoidable
Join Date: May 2013
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AVOID ACA - WASTE OF TIME & MONEY
Knew some people that went there and did not have 1 good thing to say. Anyone considering to go I would avoid at all costs after what they told me. Unsafe planes, costs more than advertised & a complete scam of a place. Buy cheap pay double - remembert that!
Join Date: Sep 2009
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The manufacturer said from what they remember the prop. was at least 3X past the recommended overhaul date, and the crack started at the trailing edge. The student had inspected another aircraft first that had a prop. strike in Lake Whales after a student went off of the end of the runway there. The instructor, and I believe 2 students jumped back in the airplane, and flew it back, damaged prop. and all. That was highly illegal, and dangerous. The place is now Pan Am academy. If the same owners, and management are still involved, it's the same operation.
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Just noticed whilst replying to http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...i-schools.html
That Orlando Flight Training / Space Coast Aviation / Pan Am for Orlando and Space coast locations are not on the SEVIS approved list anymore....which means they can't accept international students.
That Orlando Flight Training / Space Coast Aviation / Pan Am for Orlando and Space coast locations are not on the SEVIS approved list anymore....which means they can't accept international students.
Last edited by BigGrecian; 3rd Sep 2013 at 17:38.
