You must be rich to become a pilot?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: ARN
Age: 33
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You must be rich to become a pilot?
Hi all, this is my first post, and i hope Iam posting it in the suitable part of the forum.
Iam currently 20 years old and live in Scandinavia, i have always wanted to become an airline pilot just as so many like me. There are no public aviation Schools in my country, and beacuse of this i must pay my education by my own. I come from a family which best can be describes as lower class family, therefore i dont have any money (or familymember with a property as a sucurity) to be able to attend a first officer program at the most famous schools like FTE, Pilot training center etc.
The prices you have to pay for an first officer titel are ridicilous, it would take me at least 5 years to be able to save that much money, but then i will be 25 years old, is that to old to start an first officer program?
Are all airline pilots either former military pilots or children of rich people?
I hope I didnot insult anyone, that was not my purpose with this post.
Iam currently 20 years old and live in Scandinavia, i have always wanted to become an airline pilot just as so many like me. There are no public aviation Schools in my country, and beacuse of this i must pay my education by my own. I come from a family which best can be describes as lower class family, therefore i dont have any money (or familymember with a property as a sucurity) to be able to attend a first officer program at the most famous schools like FTE, Pilot training center etc.
The prices you have to pay for an first officer titel are ridicilous, it would take me at least 5 years to be able to save that much money, but then i will be 25 years old, is that to old to start an first officer program?
Are all airline pilots either former military pilots or children of rich people?
I hope I didnot insult anyone, that was not my purpose with this post.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: UK
Age: 58
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The simple answer to your question i guess is (by and large) YES! It takes a hell of a lot of money to become a pilot and with very few sponsorships around...the majority of us have had to either work and save/borrow/have rich parents!
You say it would take you 5 years to save...well i started flying at age 35 and have worked since i was 19 so it took me 16 years to save!! No easy way in im afraid or at least none that i know of
Doesnt matter how much ambition, drive or natural skill you have. If you dont have the £££££ then you will never get off the starting block. There are of course exceptions to every rule but im talking about the vast majority.
Better start saving!
Good luck
You say it would take you 5 years to save...well i started flying at age 35 and have worked since i was 19 so it took me 16 years to save!! No easy way in im afraid or at least none that i know of
Doesnt matter how much ambition, drive or natural skill you have. If you dont have the £££££ then you will never get off the starting block. There are of course exceptions to every rule but im talking about the vast majority.
Better start saving!
Good luck
You'll just have to do what the vast bulk of us had to do:
* Don't buy a flashy, expensive car. The cheapest wreck that you can keep running will do. Even better, learn to do the maintenance yourself - you'll save a significant amount. Every dollar (or Euro or Kroner or whatever) that you don't spend on a vehicle is another dollar for flying lessons.
* Don't piss your money away getting drunk with your mates every week. Every dollar (or Euro or Kroner or whatever) that you don't spend on booze is another dollar for flying lessons.
* Don't head off on holidays to foreign climes (or any climes, for that matter). Every dollar (or Euro or Kroner or whatever) that you don't spend on holidays is another dollar for flying lessons.
* Don't go to the movies, or theme parks or concerts or similar entertainments. Or at least, only rarely. Every dollar (or Euro or Kroner or whatever) that you don't spend on entertaining yourself is another dollar for flying lessons.
* Shop conservatively for groceries. Every dollar (or Euro or Kroner or whatever) that you don't spend on luxury items is another dollar for flying lessons.
* Don't be a slave to the fashionistas. Every dollar (or Euro or Kroner or whatever) that you don't spend on the latest & greatest brand name clothing (or electronic item) is another dollar for flying lessons.
* Find cheap accommodation. Parents can be good for this. Every dollar (or Euro or Kroner or whatever) that you don't spend on rent is another dollar for flying lessons.
...is there a theme becoming apparent in the 'don'ts'?
and on a more positive note:
* Do find a job. Any job. Even several, if that's what it takes. Every dollar (or Euro or Kroner or whatever) that you earn can be another dollar for flying lessons. If you don't waste it on the latest iPhone or other widget. You don't need an expensive phone, or TV, or Blu-ray player, or the fastest PC (you will need a PC. If nothing else, to browse PPRuNe for tips and traps to avoid)
* Do careful research about your flying training options. Not all training is done through the large (and expensive!) flying training organisations. There are many, many smaller schools that can give you the *same* licence at a much reduced cost. And in a similar time frame, if you're prepared to apply yourself to your studies. Every dollar (or Euro or Kroner or whatever) that you save at one point of your training is another dollar that can be applied to later stages.
You might be surprised at just how many pilots started their career outside military, airline sponsored or academy-type cadet schemes!
***One last 'Don't!'
Don't pay in advance any more than you're prepared to lose. There are many sad stories of students losing their money when their flying school goes bankrupt. Remember that the schools are competing for *your* business, not the other way around. If a school insists on large sums up front then walk away. There is always another school that is more reasonable.
Always remember that they all offer much the same thing by the end of your training: A Commercial Pilot Licence & Multi engine Instrument Rating & ATPL exam passes (in JAR-la-la land, an MCC course must now be included too). None of them offer an ATPL. They use smarmy marketing terms like 'Frozen ATPL' which many people think is the same or nearly the same as an ATPL. Not so. It's nothing more than (European) industry shorthand for a Commercial Pilot Licence + Multi Instrument Rating + passes in the ATPL exams (& since JAR, + attended an MCC course).
Nothing says that all aspects of your training must be at the same organisation so don't be put off by doing some parts elsewhere eg private at one school, commercial somewhere else, exam theory elsewhere again etc. There is something to be said for being exposed to more than one school's way of doing things. Usually the opportunity to find better pricing but also skill benefits too.
* Don't buy a flashy, expensive car. The cheapest wreck that you can keep running will do. Even better, learn to do the maintenance yourself - you'll save a significant amount. Every dollar (or Euro or Kroner or whatever) that you don't spend on a vehicle is another dollar for flying lessons.
* Don't piss your money away getting drunk with your mates every week. Every dollar (or Euro or Kroner or whatever) that you don't spend on booze is another dollar for flying lessons.
* Don't head off on holidays to foreign climes (or any climes, for that matter). Every dollar (or Euro or Kroner or whatever) that you don't spend on holidays is another dollar for flying lessons.
* Don't go to the movies, or theme parks or concerts or similar entertainments. Or at least, only rarely. Every dollar (or Euro or Kroner or whatever) that you don't spend on entertaining yourself is another dollar for flying lessons.
* Shop conservatively for groceries. Every dollar (or Euro or Kroner or whatever) that you don't spend on luxury items is another dollar for flying lessons.
* Don't be a slave to the fashionistas. Every dollar (or Euro or Kroner or whatever) that you don't spend on the latest & greatest brand name clothing (or electronic item) is another dollar for flying lessons.
* Find cheap accommodation. Parents can be good for this. Every dollar (or Euro or Kroner or whatever) that you don't spend on rent is another dollar for flying lessons.
...is there a theme becoming apparent in the 'don'ts'?
and on a more positive note:
* Do find a job. Any job. Even several, if that's what it takes. Every dollar (or Euro or Kroner or whatever) that you earn can be another dollar for flying lessons. If you don't waste it on the latest iPhone or other widget. You don't need an expensive phone, or TV, or Blu-ray player, or the fastest PC (you will need a PC. If nothing else, to browse PPRuNe for tips and traps to avoid)
* Do careful research about your flying training options. Not all training is done through the large (and expensive!) flying training organisations. There are many, many smaller schools that can give you the *same* licence at a much reduced cost. And in a similar time frame, if you're prepared to apply yourself to your studies. Every dollar (or Euro or Kroner or whatever) that you save at one point of your training is another dollar that can be applied to later stages.
You might be surprised at just how many pilots started their career outside military, airline sponsored or academy-type cadet schemes!
***One last 'Don't!'
Don't pay in advance any more than you're prepared to lose. There are many sad stories of students losing their money when their flying school goes bankrupt. Remember that the schools are competing for *your* business, not the other way around. If a school insists on large sums up front then walk away. There is always another school that is more reasonable.
Always remember that they all offer much the same thing by the end of your training: A Commercial Pilot Licence & Multi engine Instrument Rating & ATPL exam passes (in JAR-la-la land, an MCC course must now be included too). None of them offer an ATPL. They use smarmy marketing terms like 'Frozen ATPL' which many people think is the same or nearly the same as an ATPL. Not so. It's nothing more than (European) industry shorthand for a Commercial Pilot Licence + Multi Instrument Rating + passes in the ATPL exams (& since JAR, + attended an MCC course).
Nothing says that all aspects of your training must be at the same organisation so don't be put off by doing some parts elsewhere eg private at one school, commercial somewhere else, exam theory elsewhere again etc. There is something to be said for being exposed to more than one school's way of doing things. Usually the opportunity to find better pricing but also skill benefits too.
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: South
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tinstaafl....
Fantastic post! Might just print that out and put a copy up above my desk and on the way out of the door, remind me not to buy that eBay 'bargain' and to question whether I really need to go down the pub!
Fantastic post! Might just print that out and put a copy up above my desk and on the way out of the door, remind me not to buy that eBay 'bargain' and to question whether I really need to go down the pub!
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: London
Posts: 519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You've still got to live though! If you're doing none of that stuff for even 5-10 years then just maybe you're wasting the best years of your life when you're 20!
It has been said before that if you don't come from a rich background or have parents willing to sacrifice the family home that you need to be reasonably successful in another career first to be able to afford to become a pilot. I think this is the reality for most folk.
There's an interesting article in this months Pilot about airlines failing to fund trainee pilots. Worth a read.
It has been said before that if you don't come from a rich background or have parents willing to sacrifice the family home that you need to be reasonably successful in another career first to be able to afford to become a pilot. I think this is the reality for most folk.
There's an interesting article in this months Pilot about airlines failing to fund trainee pilots. Worth a read.
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: somewhere on this planet
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
pilots are the poorest chap on earth.
they have no girlfriend, girls run away when the pilots at 40 still live with mom because theye can not find a decent job.
they have no car, because they are broke, and with no job, all you can do is take the train.
they can not go out, foget retaurant, movie, all they money they make(if they make some money!!!) is saved for the next sim check.
plus they are the biggest ego on this planet, it s all "me me me", "I want fly jet,..."
"I need to find 100'000$ to fly airbus", and bla bla (no much difference with a 6 yo spoiled kid except the 6 yo kido want an ice cream at 2 bucks,when the same kido at 20 want become a captain on 747, put his mom/dad at risk, taking them their house to fullfill their big egoistical dream)
forget about it, and have a good life.Belive me, did it, done it... and f... aviation and these idiots who still belive in this s...t profession (which is now a hobby as you pay to fly)
soon . no pilot will be paid.
you can have cpl, 5 ratings, 10'000 hours, you can not compete with a guy ready to spend 50'000$ for a 6 months work (LINE TRAINING they call this)
so tell me, how you are going to make a living? by flying planes as airline pilot? in your dream mate! the very few guys know sleep in tent, or in their car, doesn't make any money! they all think it s fun to fly, so as long pilots think like that, airlines will never pay them!
and what about captains who fly now the a380s? well become a captain and you will see!they are all the same poor chaps, stabbing eachover in the back.
rants over!
they have no girlfriend, girls run away when the pilots at 40 still live with mom because theye can not find a decent job.
they have no car, because they are broke, and with no job, all you can do is take the train.
they can not go out, foget retaurant, movie, all they money they make(if they make some money!!!) is saved for the next sim check.
plus they are the biggest ego on this planet, it s all "me me me", "I want fly jet,..."
"I need to find 100'000$ to fly airbus", and bla bla (no much difference with a 6 yo spoiled kid except the 6 yo kido want an ice cream at 2 bucks,when the same kido at 20 want become a captain on 747, put his mom/dad at risk, taking them their house to fullfill their big egoistical dream)
forget about it, and have a good life.Belive me, did it, done it... and f... aviation and these idiots who still belive in this s...t profession (which is now a hobby as you pay to fly)
soon . no pilot will be paid.you can have cpl, 5 ratings, 10'000 hours, you can not compete with a guy ready to spend 50'000$ for a 6 months work (LINE TRAINING they call this)
so tell me, how you are going to make a living? by flying planes as airline pilot? in your dream mate! the very few guys know sleep in tent, or in their car, doesn't make any money! they all think it s fun to fly, so as long pilots think like that, airlines will never pay them!
and what about captains who fly now the a380s? well become a captain and you will see!they are all the same poor chaps, stabbing eachover in the back.
rants over!
Last edited by captainsuperstorm; 1st Jul 2011 at 11:12.
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In total, it will cost you around 50.000$ to become a pilot (if you do it smart way). Which is rounded up, 300.000NOK.
If you go 5 year in univercity in norway and recive 90.000NOK in loan, a year, from lånekassa, that will make it 450.000NOK. Which is 150k more.
If you count the time, before you start your education and can start applying for jobs/start working and MAKING money, quite huge difference here as well.
Do the maths m8 and PM if you have any futher questions or need some advice.
If you go 5 year in univercity in norway and recive 90.000NOK in loan, a year, from lånekassa, that will make it 450.000NOK. Which is 150k more.
If you count the time, before you start your education and can start applying for jobs/start working and MAKING money, quite huge difference here as well.
Do the maths m8 and PM if you have any futher questions or need some advice.
Great post Tinstaafl 
Here's my advice:
maybe get a job in the offshore oil industry, they make good money....bl@@dy hard work though.....
Here's my advice:
- Get a job, save as much as you can
- You need to build up an income and credit history
- After 2-3 years you should be able to get a loan based on the yearly income from your job
- Take a year off from work and get all your flight training done, start paying off your loan with the money that you ahve saved already
- Go back to work, start paying off your loan with teh maney that you make and start looking for flying jobs
- With a bit of luck you should be flying for a living in 4-5 years.
maybe get a job in the offshore oil industry, they make good money....bl@@dy hard work though.....
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Hoëveld
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are no public aviation Schools in my country
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kabul, Afghanistan
Age: 40
Posts: 274
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You don't need to be rich, but definitely you need to have the guts to spend that much. Because spending that much is a rich amount. as suggested you may have different ways of finding that money, but then it's up to you if you can spend that much in this way.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: ARN
Age: 33
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks all for the great answers! I guess its not totally hopeless then, I just got this stupid idea that you were to old to become an airline pilot if you were in your mid 20s. I have right now saved up money that i will spend on a drivers license, that will increase my chances to get a Job.
I dont think ordinary Joe realise how much pilots now days must sacrifice to succed, I will not buy any fancy car, or fancy clothes or electronics, travel, or go to pubs, which the vast majority of people in my age do.
I dont think ordinary Joe realise how much pilots now days must sacrifice to succed, I will not buy any fancy car, or fancy clothes or electronics, travel, or go to pubs, which the vast majority of people in my age do.
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Trick is not to borrow unless you really can't help it and you have an alternative plan to pay it off.
With interest your training costs will double.
Your in so much better position afterwards to then work towards getting a job.
With interest your training costs will double.
Your in so much better position afterwards to then work towards getting a job.
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Denmark
Age: 30
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FoJohansson, I can see you are from sweden, not far from me in Denmark who are in exactly the same situation.
I've talked to a lot of pilots and pilot students from Scandinavia, and they have given me a lot of good advice, so hire is what i do:
I will take a whole year off where I will work full time, over time, all the time. It will give me approx. 200.000DKK Kroner. When I have the money, it will not be a big problem to borrow 200.0000DKK Kroner more of the bank, so I should have enough to take on the Scandinavian pogram at Phoenix East Aviation, through the Norwegian aviation service.
I hope it could help you a little, good luck // Held og Lykke
I've talked to a lot of pilots and pilot students from Scandinavia, and they have given me a lot of good advice, so hire is what i do:
I will take a whole year off where I will work full time, over time, all the time. It will give me approx. 200.000DKK Kroner. When I have the money, it will not be a big problem to borrow 200.0000DKK Kroner more of the bank, so I should have enough to take on the Scandinavian pogram at Phoenix East Aviation, through the Norwegian aviation service.
I hope it could help you a little, good luck // Held og Lykke
You're better off to scrimp & save while working. Get a job, any job, for a year or so. The more the pay the better of course, but take whatever you can get. Use the time to study the theory so you're not wasting the time with regards to your eventual qualifications. Work for a while, do the next phase, work again, do another phase and so on.
Don't try to learn to fly part time ie a lesson or two per week. At least, not in the beginning. You'll waste quite a bit of time (=$$$). Newly learned skills deteriorate quickly between lessons. You'll have to spend time at the start of each lesson regaining the skill level you had at the end of the previous week's lesson. Instead use the time to save enough money to start your training full time. Get up to at least 1st solo or, better, starting the navigation phase and then you could continue at something less than full time if you wish. Go back to full time for the instrument rating though. Doing an instrument rating has similarities to when you initially learnt to fly. Lots of new skills that deteriorate quickly if the lessons are too far apart.
Also, during the working-between-stages periods, don't bother flying 'to stay current' or 'maintain skills'. You're going to be rusty when you start each phase anyway. It'll take a couple of hours during the starting lessons to get back into it but that's still cheaper than flying an hour a week or month while trying save for the next training phase. By all means go for a flight if you really want to and enjoy it, but don't feel pressured to fly just to try to keep your skill level. An hour here or there won't do much for your skill but will cost money that could be used later.
I should mention that if cost sharing is legal where you are then getting friends & family together for joy flights or trips away is a good way to build flight time at a much reduced rate. Everyone on board pays their share of the aircraft rental cost so your cost is proportionally less.
Don't try to learn to fly part time ie a lesson or two per week. At least, not in the beginning. You'll waste quite a bit of time (=$$$). Newly learned skills deteriorate quickly between lessons. You'll have to spend time at the start of each lesson regaining the skill level you had at the end of the previous week's lesson. Instead use the time to save enough money to start your training full time. Get up to at least 1st solo or, better, starting the navigation phase and then you could continue at something less than full time if you wish. Go back to full time for the instrument rating though. Doing an instrument rating has similarities to when you initially learnt to fly. Lots of new skills that deteriorate quickly if the lessons are too far apart.
Also, during the working-between-stages periods, don't bother flying 'to stay current' or 'maintain skills'. You're going to be rusty when you start each phase anyway. It'll take a couple of hours during the starting lessons to get back into it but that's still cheaper than flying an hour a week or month while trying save for the next training phase. By all means go for a flight if you really want to and enjoy it, but don't feel pressured to fly just to try to keep your skill level. An hour here or there won't do much for your skill but will cost money that could be used later.
I should mention that if cost sharing is legal where you are then getting friends & family together for joy flights or trips away is a good way to build flight time at a much reduced rate. Everyone on board pays their share of the aircraft rental cost so your cost is proportionally less.
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: somewhere on this planet
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yeah borrow all you can , empty the bank if you can, and finish in the streets with your blue license, no job!!! THERE is NO job for a 200h pilot.
how many time I have to repeat?the market is saturated with low hours pilot.
HELLO?????
how many time I have to repeat?the market is saturated with low hours pilot.
HELLO?????
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: ARN
Age: 33
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sounds like a very good plan, you must got generous banks in Denmark . Ive sent you a private messege regarding the Scandinavian program. Thanks for the advice! Lycka till du med
. Ive sent you a private messege regarding the Scandinavian program. Thanks for the advice! Lycka till du med
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Luton
Age: 39
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am also in a similar situation and really need some "been there done it" advice....im 26 and have a fairly good management job earning ok money. I have always aspired to be a pilot but for a long time decided it was simply unachievable. Either way every passing day living near a busy airport watching planes up and down all day just became too much so Ive decided I have to do something about it. Ive never been one to spend lavishly on clothes gadgets drinking etc so have managed to get a fair bit of savings behind me. I fortunately still live at home and have just over £10000 saved up and am just after selling my car (my pride and joy) to get this figure and am now on foot walking to work still saving every penny I can, problem is I dont know what route I should take...I see some people suggest continuing working and learning course by course (but I fear I simply dont have the time left to do it this way) and some say stop working take the year out and study which Im quite prepared to do but in terms of funding I know the amount I have saved is a drop in the water. What would someone whos done it say should be my next move...? My bank is constantly offering me loans which I dont need is there a organisation that could fund the entire course and I pay back after I start earning again or what....help confused 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: London
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just to add a bit of humour
I could not help but laugh at this part of your paragraph.
"now on foot walking to work still saving every penny I can, problem is I don’t know what route I should take...I see some people suggest"
when you mention what route you should take I thought you meant what route you should take to work. Lmao!
Its only when I thought for the third time, I arrived at what you meant.
Please don’t be offended. I am sorry in advance if what I wrote did offend you.
I could not help but laugh at this part of your paragraph.
"now on foot walking to work still saving every penny I can, problem is I don’t know what route I should take...I see some people suggest"
when you mention what route you should take I thought you meant what route you should take to work. Lmao!
Its only when I thought for the third time, I arrived at what you meant.
Please don’t be offended. I am sorry in advance if what I wrote did offend you.
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At 26 your still young don't worry about it.
First go get a class one medical and make sure thats not going to stop you (don't worry when it goes to a class 2 your still good to train)
Then sit down and plan a course of action over the next 3 years taking into account holidays etc.
For your 10 grand you can get a ppl and exams done. But I wouldn't rush into the PPL get a local school and get it done while saving. Then onto the theory. Either get a local share in an aircraft or go away and do a couple of 50 hour blocks for the hour building. CPL you can just about get away with during a 2 week holiday. Then unfortunately you will have to stop work for the IR its best done in one go. BUt up until that point you should be earning every month which makes a huge difference.
First go get a class one medical and make sure thats not going to stop you (don't worry when it goes to a class 2 your still good to train)
Then sit down and plan a course of action over the next 3 years taking into account holidays etc.
For your 10 grand you can get a ppl and exams done. But I wouldn't rush into the PPL get a local school and get it done while saving. Then onto the theory. Either get a local share in an aircraft or go away and do a couple of 50 hour blocks for the hour building. CPL you can just about get away with during a 2 week holiday. Then unfortunately you will have to stop work for the IR its best done in one go. BUt up until that point you should be earning every month which makes a huge difference.