Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies) A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out.

ATPL theory questions

Old 19th Dec 2016, 20:49
  #921 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: earth
Posts: 11
Hi Paco,

Could you give us more information about what will change in the ATPL in 2017.
What do you mean by written questions ?
Fouga_GVA is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2016, 00:50
  #922 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: France
Posts: 435
Hello

I would have a question about the computers.
Do they all do the same things ? I have a CRP5 whereas my school recommends an aviat 617.

Are they really used in real life ? (i.e. in flight)
Obviously they are not useful on any modern jetliner, but what about powerful older aircraft ?
I learned tonight most of the computations mine can do, and I was pleasantly surprised with all it can do, and the simplicity of its use (it seemed a bit daunting initially)

Or are they just used during the ATPL exams ?
Is it allowed to have a calculator during the ATPL exams ?
If so, what's the computer for ? (my calculator could easily do everything that the computer does, since it is programmable)

Thank you
KayPam is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2016, 07:26
  #923 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: FL060
Posts: 144
Hello KayPam,

You have to check with your local CAA for which tools you are allowed to bring to the exams. In Germany, you are only allowed to bring to the ATPL exams pens, pencils, ruler, and a flight computer (ie. Aviat 617). They provide notepaper for calculations as well as a REALLY SIMPLE (read: non-programable) caculator. You probably would find the 617 more useful than a CRP5 since it also has MACH numbers on it. Once you pratice with the 617, you have an answer faster than with an electronic calculator esp. wind calculations, PSR & PET are super fast and easy, calculating MACH with IAS and different temperatures is a snap, etc. As for real world application, my IFR FI also flies executive jets and uses his almost daily to double check the caclulations he receives from dispatch.
cavok_flyer is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2016, 07:27
  #924 (permalink)  

 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 67
Posts: 3,767
An Aviat 67 is an expensive beast, though extremely well built. If you were going to use a slide computer, you won't get a better one - the AFE ARC 2 would be another good choice.

I still use my whizzie after over 40 years - it doesn't need batteries so no embarrassing silences when the calculator dies Also be aware that the electronic ones tend to use the American nautical mile which is a few feet less than the standard one of 6080 feet.

We train with the Jeppesen CR-3 circular flight computer - it is much easier to use than the Dalton/E6B slide thingies, and can be obtained new for around 26 off ebay. As there is a hole through the middle you can put a bit of string through it and use it one handed when you hang it from a suitable place in the cockpit. In our Beavers, there was a convenient hook by the door.

In the absence of the old workbook, which is well out of print, I have done a replacement (PM for details), and we have done an Android app for it as well.
paco is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2016, 10:16
  #925 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Bristol, England
Age: 60
Posts: 1,475
Point of order, Paco. Both the American and British Admiralty nautical miles were 6080ft. The 'international nautical mile' is 1852m, just over 6076ft!
Alex Whittingham is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2016, 11:43
  #926 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Bristol, England
Age: 60
Posts: 1,475
...and EASA, bless them, define a nautical mile as 1852 km, LO 061 01 05 01 in Annex II to ED Decision 2016/008/R.
Alex Whittingham is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2016, 14:14
  #927 (permalink)  

 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 67
Posts: 3,767
I'll have to check with the Admiralty manual, but my understanding is that the British version is the one used for calibration and navigation in general, which is correct at 48 degrees of latitude. According to the Dictionary of Military and Associated terms from the US DOD, "The United States has adopted the international nautical mile equal to 1,852 meters or 6,076.11549 feet." That would be at 45 degrees.

That's a loooooong nautical mile, even for EASA!

But who cares - the calculators use 6076 - I'd forgotten the number, but you kindly supplied it!
paco is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2016, 16:31
  #928 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Bristol, England
Age: 60
Posts: 1,475
According to Wiki The US abandoned the longer nautical mile in 1954 and the UK changed in 1970. TBH we still teach 6080ft because (i) its easier to remember along with 3280 and 5080 (ii) the error is only 0.065% (iii) if you use the calculator the conversion is accurate anyway.
Alex Whittingham is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2016, 16:48
  #929 (permalink)  

 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 67
Posts: 3,767
That about sums it up!
paco is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2016, 19:55
  #930 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: France
Posts: 435
Originally Posted by paco View Post
An Aviat 67 is an expensive beast, though extremely well built. If you were going to use a slide computer, you won't get a better one - the AFE ARC 2 would be another good choice.

I still use my whizzie after over 40 years - it doesn't need batteries so no embarrassing silences when the calculator dies Also be aware that the electronic ones tend to use the American nautical mile which is a few feet less than the standard one of 6080 feet.

We train with the Jeppesen CR-3 circular flight computer - it is much easier to use than the Dalton/E6B slide thingies, and can be obtained new for around 26 off ebay. As there is a hole through the middle you can put a bit of string through it and use it one handed when you hang it from a suitable place in the cockpit. In our Beavers, there was a convenient hook by the door.

In the absence of the old workbook, which is well out of print, I have done a replacement (PM for details), and we have done an Android app for it as well.
Could you please explain in which way it would be better ?

More computations available ? (given that any computer can do any multiplication I don't see much more to do beyond that, except of course CAS TAS Mach conversions, and density altitude, and wind computation)

More precision ?

A better build ? (easier to move the sliding circle to an exact position)

(For the record, I wouldn't use any specialised electronic computer, just my general purpose calculator which can do everything when programmed right)

So, what about ATPL exams ?

In any case, thank you paco for all the info you're providing. It looks like you are working for an FTO ?
KayPam is offline  
Old 23rd Dec 2016, 10:28
  #931 (permalink)  

 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 67
Posts: 3,767
You might want to check that you are allowed to use a programmable calculator.....

That aside, the CR-3 is cheaper and way more logical. It doesn't use a slide, and is based on cosines. The slide rule side is similar to the others, it is true, but it's the wind side that scores - it makes grid navigation a breeze.



In the picture, your true course is 130. Your grid course is shown opposite your longitude, in this case 090 degs opposite 40E.

You can do this a little bit with the CRP-5, but it goes all the way round on the CR-3.

Also, convergency.



180 nm on the outside scale, find the cosine of the latitude, in this case 54 degs N, departure is right opposite (the sine of 36 is the same as the cosine of 54).

Busted! I do indeed work for an ATO .

Last edited by paco; 23rd Dec 2016 at 10:50.
paco is offline  
Old 30th Dec 2016, 01:44
  #932 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: IRELAND
Posts: 2
Advice re: ATPL groundschool in the UK

Fellow pilots,

I am an FAA IR/CPL (Irish national), and have spent hours researching different schools for the next step of my training. I plan to commit to a UK-based Distance Learning course in order to maintain my present source of income as a flight attendant. I would appreciate any reviews/recommendations from current/past students/instructors/experts.

I am particularly interested in an updated review of CATS, as the price is enticing but my research is inconclusive as to the consistency and quality of the instruction.

I am looking for an ipad based, offline course that provides high quality animations and consistent textual instruction. Also important to me is the quality of instruction during the brush up courses. While my research indicates that BGS scores highly in all these regards, I would appreciate input of any recent/present CATS/Padpilot users out there so that I can decide which way to fly...
wingwarrior is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2017, 00:50
  #933 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: France
Posts: 435
Hello
I am reading something very weird in my Oxford ATPL books (fifth edition)
In Air law, 10.4 (page192), it is stated that a holding pattern should be flown at M0.83 if at or above FL340.
WTF ? M0.83 is above MMO for numerous aircraft..

Thanks
KayPam is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2017, 01:00
  #934 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: The MEL page
Posts: 80
That's the maximum allowed speed, not a "you must fly this" speed.
tech log is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2017, 01:07
  #935 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: France
Posts: 435
Ok so I guess that's a mistake of my textbook.. "Holding patterns are to be flown at the following speeds :"
Then it proceeds to give a table of speeds including the M0.83 of above.

Another surprising point is that the turbulent conditions speeds are higher than the normal condition speeds. Why would you be allowed to go faster in turbulent conditions ? To go through higher variations of VRTG and get past VNE more easily ?
KayPam is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2017, 02:52
  #936 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: The MEL page
Posts: 80
"ICAO Doc 8168 Vol 1 6 1.3.1 Holding patterns shall be entered and flown at or below the airspeeds given"

Get past VNE more easily - What do you mean by that? Why would you want to exceed VNE?
tech log is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2017, 03:33
  #937 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: France
Posts: 435
Because in turbulent air it is common to see speed increase in unwanted manners.
So i was being ironic, basically.

The usual recommendation for going through rough air is to decrease speed (under vra), not increase the maximum allowable. I dont have my book right now but the max speed increased from 230kt to 280kt when in rough air, which seems absurd.

I will google that icao doc tomorrow
KayPam is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2017, 13:13
  #938 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 9
Exam Questions (HELP)

Hi All

I'm struggling to work these questions out.

1)The altitude of an airfield with an ATZ is given as 350ft, how high will the ATZ be above the airfield?

2)You are flying at 4300ft on a QNH of 1003 under controller airspace which has base of FL45. Are you in controlled airspace?

3)You are travelling at 270knts with a tailwind of 30knts, how long will it take you to travel 150nm?

4)You weigh 95kg, your friend weighs 85kg. Your aircraft has an empty weight of 265kg, how many litres of fuel can tou carry without exceeding your MOTW of 450kg?

Can anyone help me out by showing how to work these out?
Sanger is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2017, 16:42
  #939 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: The MEL page
Posts: 80
1) Trick question. Air Traffic Zones always have a height of 2000ft above the aerodrome. Because it's above an AD with an elevation of 350ft, the height of the ATZ will be 2000ft but it's altitude will be 2350ft.



2) Flight Levels are based off standard QNH of 1013hpa. 1hpa = 27ft.

1013hpa - 1003hpa = 270ft difference.

The pressure setting you are flying via is lower than 1013.

The easiest way to think about this is -

When you move the sub scale knob on the altimeter to the right to increase the value to 1013, the altimeter needle will also increase.

It will increase by 270ft.

4300ft + 270ft = 4570ft pressure altitude = above FL45. You are in controlled airspace.




3) 270kts airspeed + 30kts tailwind = 300kts ground speed.

speed = distance / time therefore time = distance/speed

time = 150nm / 300kts = 30 mins.



4) Pilot and passenger total weight = 180kg.

180kg + aircraft weight 265kg = 445kg.

You can only carry 5kg of fuel. Question asks for it in litres.

The specific gravity SG of AVGAS is roughly 0.72.

5kg / 0.72 = 6.9 litres.

You can only carry 6.9 Litres before infringing on the aircraft's MTOW.

Last edited by tech log; 6th Jan 2017 at 21:15.
tech log is offline  
Old 9th Jan 2017, 23:43
  #940 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: London
Posts: 63
Hi wingwarrior, I would recommend a look at Calendonian, their notes are good, can highlight them in a PDF which is good, also recommend a BGS login. Will send you a DM on experience of my school.
Dream2Jet is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.