People's opinions on the integrated route and flight schools...

[CescP]

Hi,
I'm 17 and currently studying A-levels at college, however i'm hanging in the balance on whether to go straight from college to a flight school or whether to stick with education and go to university. However the minimum debt which i would gain from university is around £40,000 which on top of flight training is a ridiculous amount of money.

I was just wondering about people's different experiences and opinions of different flight schools, the integrated route is the way that would best suit me persoonally.

Any opinions and advice would be welcomed greatfully,

[redsnail]

You're right, it is a ridiculous amount of debt for something you'll probably never use.
Do you have the option of deferring for a year? I'd do that and go and get any job. It doesn't matter how rubbish it is as it's only for a year. You'll mature far faster than going straight into uni or full time flying study. Also, you'll have hopefully saved a little bit of money.

Oh, and if you think the uni debt is high, wait till you see what flight training will cost. I am assuming you'll have your parents assistance with funding the course? I do hope they know that the shiny brochures are just a sales pitch?
I would advise them to treat them like any speculative product, "past performance is not indicative of future performance - or, you can lose the lot"

Rather than ask around on PPRuNe, you'd be far better off going and visiting the said institutions and see which fits you.

I take it you know already that you can pass the class 1 medical?

[CescP]

I know that the debts either way are absolutely huge, going either way is like getting a slap round the face from the money man.

As far as finance goes i'll be the one with the huge burden and if my parents can help me they will, but the main bulk lies with me.

I am planning on visiting the schools but haven't had sufficient time due to work and commitments to sport.

The medical should be ok as i had my eyes tested not long ago and they were fine so anything else that could cause a problem will be a suprise as i'm rather fit and healthy.

Thanks for advice much appreciated.

Cesc,

[redsnail]

No worries, were you tested for colour blindness? Make sure you have that one sorted out before spending a penny/cent/drachma. No latent diabetes lurking there?

Fair enough, re being busy but I would definitely take the time out to do it.
Have you had a trial lesson yet? May as well see if you enjoy it.

Ok, sounds like you're going for a massive loan then. I know you're 17 (according to your profile) and every thing has to happen right now or else you'll miss out. Trust me, you have time. I would seriously consider waiting 1 year before committing to a very intensive course. (Assuming you bin the uni idea. I worked in one for 8 1/2 years, no one matures at uni doing a 3 year generalist degree...)

Get a job. Do any thing. Labouring, working in a bar, working in the FBO, whatever. You'll need the money and the discipline of getting up and going to work etc will stand you in good stead. Also, it's a breather in between your school life and your rapidly approaching adult life. It'll definitely help you read between the bullsh!t sales pitch and the truth too.

There's probably not going to be much recruitment for low houred guys for the next 2-3 years so there's no rush. Your eyes have probably glazed over at some old fart who doesn't know what she's talking about banging on about the youth blah blah blah. I have the job you want. My husband has the other.

Good luck

*I don't count Ryanair and easyJet contractor positions as full time permanent employee jobs.

[clanger32]

Cesc,
Flying is a wonderful activity, I will long remember the day in my training when on cold, crappy, grey, miserable, rainy day I was pre-flighting my aircraft and wondering what on earth I was doing this for, only to burst through cloud at FL80 into bright sunshine.....It really focusses the mind and seeing the sun every day really does brighten the day (no pun intended)

However, I cannot agree any more with what Redsnail has told you. It is seriously on the money...it is exactly right and you would be foolish to ignore it.

Seriously - minimise the debt you take - whatever training route you go through doesn't matter. Work for a couple of years, it will help minimise your exposure, but almost AS importantly knowing the drudgery of a 9-5 office job may help focus your mind on this being what you REALLY want to do. Int Vs Mod has been done to death - read the stickies at the top of the forum. The only thing I'd say is my own personal crusade, but it understand fully the costs of BOTH routes AND which way suits the wway you want to train before you decide. Going integrated if you can't stand that regimented way of learning will be horrible, whereas saving £20k by going mod but struggling with the ATPLs because it's the wrong way for you is equally dumb. [and also understand there's a whole range of products that do a bit of both]

[CescP]

Redsnail - I have had one trial lesson and absolutely loved it, however with only being able to work part time and being on minimum wage i haven't been able to extend my experiences.

clanger32 - I can imagine that it's a fantastic sight. However with working the only job i have been able to get part time along side my college work is a lifeguard and this is only on minimum wage so even if i extended my hours once i had finished college the amount of money i would be earning would be minimal amounts which would be eaten by the costs of flight training.

Still, thanks again for the advice, much appreciated

[redsnail]

Cesco,
Good on you for having a part time job whilst at college. Make sure the work doesn't affect your studies. In order to be competitive while you are a low houred pilot you'll need the best grades possible.

Have you contacted GAPAN? The Guild of Air Pilots and Navigators?
Have a look at them and I would strongly consider doing their assessments and so forth. They also give small scholarships too.

[Tinstaafl]

I wouldn't recommend integrated *unless* there's a cast iron job at the end of it. You get the same licence, integrated or non-integrated but pay rather more for the integrated route.

Non-int. gives you the opportunity to shop around, choosing a different school for different parts of your training if that school is more appropriate or cost effective. Integrated usually means you're stuck there. Bad luck if you're not happy with them. Usually more cost up front** too so if the school goes tits up you've lost your money.

Do as Reddo says: Get a job, any job for a year or so The more the pay the better of course but whatever you can get. Use the time to study the theory. Don't try to learn to fly part time ie a lesson or two per week. At least, not in the beginning. You'll waste quite a bit of time (=$$$). Newly learned skills deteriorate quickly between lessons. You'll have to spend time at the start of each lesson regaining the skill level you had at the end of the previous week's lesson. Instead use the time to save enough money to start your training full time. Get up to at least 1st solo or starting the navigation phase & then you could continue at something less than full time if you wish.

Non-int also means you can have a break from flying (read 'spending $') to earn an income between stages. Work for a while, do the next phase, work again, do another phase and so on.


**How many times do we say: DON'T PAY UP FRONT! Schools go broke regularly. If it's absolutely unavoidable ie that school is the only one that you wish to train at, then look at some form of escrow account that requires your approval for the school to draw down on. Next worst option is for small payments in advance - but only as much as you're prepared to lose eg enough to cover the next flight or couple of flights, or maybe a grand or two at a time. This is much easier to arrange if you're able to shop around for a school ie non-integrated route.

[CescP]

Thanks for the advice Tins' however i'm not the kind of person who likes to jump ship all over the place. I think that it has adverse affects on my learning, this is why i'm leaning more towards the integrated side, where i will be settled in. There are always going to be positives and negative wherever i go, that is life.

This is the reason that i think getting the best deal is not necessarily the best option as it may not provide me with the best chance of succedding.

[Tinstaafl]

I'm not talking about jumping ship all over the place ie have one lesson here, a few there, some more elsewhere, but using appropriate schools for different parts of your training. You may find a local school has quite good training & is cheaper for the PPL due not having to live away but may not be geared for CPL level so not a good choice for that stage, another source that's cheaper for hour building, one of the several ATPL theory centres to has to be chosen, somewhere else for CPL may be more efficient....and so on for initial multi, instrument rating, PPL theory if self study isn't right for you and multi crew co-op. Instructor rating too, if you go down that route.

That's not jumping ship. That's choosing the most appropriate or suitable school for the stage at hand. You may well find that a single earby or cheap-ish school does really, really well up to CPL but isn't able to do the IR. Fine, get to the CPL at that place, enjoy the savings in living expenses or fees, and go elsewhere for the IR. Some other school might have work for you once you complete your instructor rating there.

No one school knows everything nor do they all do things the same way. Exposing yourself to other places can broaden your flying skills. It also allows you to meet more people within the industry. You never know who might give you the nod for a job or point you to a word of mouth opening.

[The Old Fat One]

CescP,

I'll cut straight to the chase...

I have a background in career development and have worked closely with many budding aviators of your age.

To suceed in professional aviation you need one of two things (or ideally both of them)

One, an almost fanatical commitment to succeed. A commitment that will override all else...not just sport, but social life, family life etc.

Two, a great deal of money.

If you have both great, if not you need plenty of one or the other.

You will also need a solid aptitude and a healthy body.

Might I suggest you tick off the following before proceeding to far with your plans:

Approved aptitude tests (GAPAN)
A full medical (CAA approved)
Five hours flying lessons (most schools will do a starter pack of some form)
Two of three school visits to see what's involved.

If you don't have the time or the money for the above, you might want a re-think.

[captainsuperstorm]

don't believe all posts here above, all giving nice advices,...

never go to flight training, don't even think! you will never make a living of it.
all guys joining flight training are the idiots of this society.let pay the airlines or join airforce.never put one dim from your pocket...

believe me, i have been there, and i regret it.

[CescP]

Thanks for the advice, but don't you think this is a little too much to finance off a minimum wage part time job?

And surely just because i can't finance this from my shabby job doesn't mean i should give up on a dream...?