BAe Jetstream 32 or B200 King Air type rating!
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BAe Jetstream 32 or B200 King Air type rating!
I am wondering what would be the better TR to take? I might have the option between one or the other.
From what I understand the Jetstream is multi crew, but I have read conflicting reports about the King Air, please could anyone enlighten me regarding this, where I can find exact details of this.
Also where in the UK can I do a Jetstream 32 TR?
What TR would be the most handy one for the future, with regards of building hours against the ATPL?
From what I understand the Jetstream is multi crew, but I have read conflicting reports about the King Air, please could anyone enlighten me regarding this, where I can find exact details of this.
Also where in the UK can I do a Jetstream 32 TR?
What TR would be the most handy one for the future, with regards of building hours against the ATPL?
PPRuNe Handmaiden
How many hours do you have?
King Air is a single pilot aircraft. It's below 5700 kg.
Now, some operations may specify two crew, but that will be in the AOC and OM A.
Jetstream 32, I am pretty certain that's 2 crew.
There is a JAR OPS document out there that lists all the types and whether or not they are JAR 25/23 or whatever.
However, who are operating those types? Are they hiring? How do they normally recruit? What's the experience required to work for those companies?
King Air is a single pilot aircraft. It's below 5700 kg.
Now, some operations may specify two crew, but that will be in the AOC and OM A.
Jetstream 32, I am pretty certain that's 2 crew.
There is a JAR OPS document out there that lists all the types and whether or not they are JAR 25/23 or whatever.
However, who are operating those types? Are they hiring? How do they normally recruit? What's the experience required to work for those companies?
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Unless you have a job lined up with a schedualed airline like Blueisland or directflug (both of which can do them in house) don't touch a JS32 rating with a barge pole.
Its a dead rating which is actually quite expensive to get these days.
Your unlikely to build hours very fast and you will be in the land of ACMI's and charter ops.
Have a look at the Cork thread in Rumours and News to see what to expect.
Its a dead rating which is actually quite expensive to get these days.
Your unlikely to build hours very fast and you will be in the land of ACMI's and charter ops.
Have a look at the Cork thread in Rumours and News to see what to expect.
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I have an offer to fly either, if I provide my own rating.
I have TT of approx. 300 hours.
Providing I have either one of the ratings I can most likely have a job, I need hours and experience to be able to get up and forward.
However so far my limited research have given me not to much information about the Jetstream, only seen TR offered by Oxford in Stockholm, but no price.
I am correct to assume a King Air would be better in terms of other employment chances later. Of course I do hope to move up and forward from either with more experience, but have to start somewhere, or?
How will I get confirmation if the King Air is 2 crew or Single crew?
So is it correct to understand if the company has AOC for 2 crew B200, then I would be able to log the time as P2?
With a TR would I be able to also log P1 time with CPL (fATPL)?
Sorry if I am confusing some stuff, I just want to make sure I get the right information, and can ask the right questions.
From what I see, King Air is a better rating to have, as there are more operators around with them, however I want to make sure I can log time on the aircraft either as P2 or P1.
I have TT of approx. 300 hours.
Providing I have either one of the ratings I can most likely have a job, I need hours and experience to be able to get up and forward.
However so far my limited research have given me not to much information about the Jetstream, only seen TR offered by Oxford in Stockholm, but no price.
I am correct to assume a King Air would be better in terms of other employment chances later. Of course I do hope to move up and forward from either with more experience, but have to start somewhere, or?
How will I get confirmation if the King Air is 2 crew or Single crew?
So is it correct to understand if the company has AOC for 2 crew B200, then I would be able to log the time as P2?
With a TR would I be able to also log P1 time with CPL (fATPL)?
Sorry if I am confusing some stuff, I just want to make sure I get the right information, and can ask the right questions.
From what I see, King Air is a better rating to have, as there are more operators around with them, however I want to make sure I can log time on the aircraft either as P2 or P1.
Last edited by BoeingDreamer; 3rd Apr 2011 at 11:01.
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The king air is single pilot but its is operated as multicrew for public transport ops. It depends on the agreement between the operator and the CAA if you can log it as multicrew. You can't use the LPC though to gain an ATPL once you have the required hours.
The JS32 is a multicrew aircraft.
OAA is the one left and its expensive your looking at 15k plus.
There are a few others out there in JAR land which do it in the aircraft.
The JS32 is a multicrew aircraft.
OAA is the one left and its expensive your looking at 15k plus.
There are a few others out there in JAR land which do it in the aircraft.
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To be able to log P1 in the King Air, do I have to have ATPL, or is this possible with CPL only? If multi crew?
From what I have read, I am not sure. Allowed to act as PIC in commercial air transport in aeroplanes certified for single pilot operations, to act as co pilot in commercial transport that require co-pilot.
However I am not able to get ATPL in the King Air. As it is not approved for this. So does anybody know if the King Air is multi crew, would I be able to operate as PIC with CPL only?
If not, what would I need to do to get my ATPL valid? A type rating on another aircraft?
From what I have read, I am not sure. Allowed to act as PIC in commercial air transport in aeroplanes certified for single pilot operations, to act as co pilot in commercial transport that require co-pilot.
However I am not able to get ATPL in the King Air. As it is not approved for this. So does anybody know if the King Air is multi crew, would I be able to operate as PIC with CPL only?
If not, what would I need to do to get my ATPL valid? A type rating on another aircraft?
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What licence do you hold, UK or other? And what country is the aircraft registered in?
I'm pretty sure the King Air will be ok as long as the aircraft operator is able to provide you with a confirmation that the aircraft was operated multi crew. A good friend of mine who used to fly as copilot on the King Air for BAE Systems had no problem getting his hours recognized and confirmed for his ATPL issue. I also know that Netjets used to have a King Air (on the Portuguese register) and their guys had no problem with their hours either when it came time to upgrade.
However before you spend lots of money on anything you would be really advised to contact your own country CAA for the straight answer, preferably in writing.
You should really get the J32 rating though, because it's a real man's airplane and the King Air is only for poofs
I'm pretty sure the King Air will be ok as long as the aircraft operator is able to provide you with a confirmation that the aircraft was operated multi crew. A good friend of mine who used to fly as copilot on the King Air for BAE Systems had no problem getting his hours recognized and confirmed for his ATPL issue. I also know that Netjets used to have a King Air (on the Portuguese register) and their guys had no problem with their hours either when it came time to upgrade.
However before you spend lots of money on anything you would be really advised to contact your own country CAA for the straight answer, preferably in writing.
You should really get the J32 rating though, because it's a real man's airplane and the King Air is only for poofs
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I have JAA licence CPL, AC is G reg.
Need to know will be enough hours in the J32, as from what I understand there are not many J32's around.
But from what I understand if the AC is SPA, I would be able to fly after certain time, but would I be able to fly it as P1 if multi crew, before I get my ATPL?
If I understand correct I would be able to fly it P1 if not multi-crew. (Obviously after sufficient time required by the insurance)
Or would that then be with a safety pilot, if it is SPA, to get sufficient experience.
Need to know will be enough hours in the J32, as from what I understand there are not many J32's around.
But from what I understand if the AC is SPA, I would be able to fly after certain time, but would I be able to fly it as P1 if multi crew, before I get my ATPL?
If I understand correct I would be able to fly it P1 if not multi-crew. (Obviously after sufficient time required by the insurance)
Or would that then be with a safety pilot, if it is SPA, to get sufficient experience.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
I would contact the regulatory authority who issued your license and ask them.
They are the only ones who can say what you can and cannot log.
You know enough to ask if the operation will be 2 crew as per the AOC and the bearing that has on how you can log your hours.
They are the only ones who can say what you can and cannot log.
You know enough to ask if the operation will be 2 crew as per the AOC and the bearing that has on how you can log your hours.
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The King Air(and in partiular G reg) is certified single crew or multicrew, depending on the operation involved. If its flying multicrew then chances are its operating under an AOC with the relevant details in the Ops manuals as agreed by the operator and the UK CAA. Any flying time accrued in such an operating capacity counts towards the 500 hours multicrew requirement for the ATPL. The aircraft however is not a JAR 25 a/c therefore cannot be used for an ATPL skills test and as such you cannot 'unfreeze' an ATPL with it, irrespective of whether you are officialy operating it single or multicrew.
The aircraft can also be flown multicrew(as per AOC and Ops) by a PIC who does not hold an ATPL. A frozen ATPL will suffice. My local air ambulance being the classic example.
Once EASA gets it claws in everything however, all my change!!
The aircraft can also be flown multicrew(as per AOC and Ops) by a PIC who does not hold an ATPL. A frozen ATPL will suffice. My local air ambulance being the classic example.
Once EASA gets it claws in everything however, all my change!!
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I have to agree with Mad Jock on this one. Im J31/32 rated and it really is becoming a dead rating. Not a lot of them around and many coming up to their "sell-by" dates. Only a handful left in the UK now and not even that many more in EU. Lovely plane to fly and good fun but certainly not the rating I would go for. Similar story really with the 41. Kingairs on the other hand seem to be everywhere and (in my opinion) a fairly useful type to have on ur licence.
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Don't forget to allow for the MCC course that would be required before operating on a multicrew SOP (unless you already have 500hrs on multipilot aeroplanes - which you don't).
As for which to go for, who pays best?
As for which to go for, who pays best?
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Thanks for the information.,
Yes already done MCC, just want to make sure I do what gives most options, seems that King Air is a clear winner with that. Thanks everyone.
Yes already done MCC, just want to make sure I do what gives most options, seems that King Air is a clear winner with that. Thanks everyone.
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King Air is a brilliant aeroplane, used in all sorts of role's....air ambulance, air taxi, biz charter, private ownership....even the RAF use them. Lots of them in use all over the world.
Está servira para distraerle.
My $1m worth.
JAA rated J32.
ICAO rated B200.
For my money I'd avoid the J32.
Quite apart from any of the other very good reasons given so far, even if you get a job flying a Jetstream and were it to remain serviceable, the operator will be unlikely to have it for long enough for you to be able to begin to recoup your capital cost. It is certainly a Perf A two crew machine so you'd only be able to log accordingly. The 32 bears no resemblance to the 42 and is not a stepping stone in that direction, were you of that thinking.
The King Air is a superb machine to fly, far, far superior to the J32. There are lots of them in Africa as well so you might still eat bread and drink beer even on a validation of your UK CPL.
One further thought, if you've only 300 hours or 400 or even 500 hours and you put your logbook down in front of a interviewing chief pilot, he will probaby raise a slightly jaundiced eye at you if you've got a stack of King Air 200 time logged as P1 as opposed to P1 U/S for example.
JAA rated J32.
ICAO rated B200.
For my money I'd avoid the J32.
Quite apart from any of the other very good reasons given so far, even if you get a job flying a Jetstream and were it to remain serviceable, the operator will be unlikely to have it for long enough for you to be able to begin to recoup your capital cost. It is certainly a Perf A two crew machine so you'd only be able to log accordingly. The 32 bears no resemblance to the 42 and is not a stepping stone in that direction, were you of that thinking.
The King Air is a superb machine to fly, far, far superior to the J32. There are lots of them in Africa as well so you might still eat bread and drink beer even on a validation of your UK CPL.
One further thought, if you've only 300 hours or 400 or even 500 hours and you put your logbook down in front of a interviewing chief pilot, he will probaby raise a slightly jaundiced eye at you if you've got a stack of King Air 200 time logged as P1 as opposed to P1 U/S for example.
Last edited by cavortingcheetah; 8th Apr 2011 at 09:25.
