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Bartolini Air Flight School

Old 2nd May 2016, 17:24
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: The moon
Posts: 65
Thanks for the replies. Does it make much of a difference if they don't teach the NDB stuff or is it a pitfall? Should I look at doing that section of the training at another school after I finish at bartolini?
Whiskey Hotel is offline  
Old 3rd May 2016, 08:32
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 36
Bartolini doesn't usually practice NDB approaches as there is no NDB available in the vicinity but you can get it as much as you want in a sim. If you want that in real life they will take you to the airport with one but normally they try to keep your costs at minimum even if you're modular. That said they don't ask you to pay extra trip to practice something unnecessary. If you can fly the aircraft and you are able to make a good VOR approach then doing NDB in a sim is well enough.
They obviously have some downsides but who don't. Generally training standards are rather high which sometimes can make you frustrated as they demand a lot from you and you won't be clear for a flight if your knowledge is below their requirements. And yes, their hire ratio seems to be really good. I have finished modular with them and secured employment in less than 2 months after completing. Most of my mates I met there are now employed. For some it took little bit longer. For some it was straight away but most of us are doing what we wished for.
If you got any more questions don't hesitate and ask.
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Old 3rd May 2016, 17:57
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 2
When did you finish your training Michael S (if you dont mind me asking)? I have also been very attracted to Bartolini Air due to costs and the good reviews they are getting from their training. My only concern was how the airliners view Bartolini Air's training package and subsequently how many jobs are offered to people who have chosen this route. It's good to hear you secured work so soon and the majority of students have also been doing so!

I will have finished my PPL in a few weeks so would be looking to enroll on their 0-fATPL course, minus the PPL obviously.
N80Jamie is offline  
Old 4th May 2016, 12:35
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 133
My nephew had an interview with a certain medium sized turboprop operator in the UK, several months after completing his ME/IR with said school. They were not impressed with his level of knowledge of the IFR system, so it would appear. Didn't even make the sim stage.

He had never completed an NDB hold, nor could he explain certain chart symbology. He has recently had remedial training at a UK school, even although his ME/IR is current.
Hawker 800 is offline  
Old 4th May 2016, 15:41
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by Hawker 800 View Post
My nephew had an interview with a certain medium sized turboprop operator in the UK, several months after completing his ME/IR with said school. They were not impressed with his level of knowledge of the IFR system, so it would appear. Didn't even make the sim stage.

He had never completed an NDB hold, nor could he explain certain chart symbology. He has recently had remedial training at a UK school, even although his ME/IR is current.
Surely your nephew would have done research on what is expected from that particular companies interview? Should these things be included with the flight training provided by Bartolini Air?
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Old 5th May 2016, 01:44
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 396
Anyone thinking of training with Bartolini in the future needs to speak with them first. From what I hear they are booked up way into next year.
Well, apparently business is going exceptionally well for Bartolini (thanks to the excellent promotion here on the forum), since they are turning down an increasing number of inquires. I intended to do the flying part of my conversion with them, at first they said yes, but then they changed their mind and told me that they aren't providing this kind of service any longer, because it's too little profit and too much paperwork for them

Last edited by Transsonic2000; 5th May 2016 at 02:00.
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Old 5th May 2016, 07:40
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 133
N80 Jamie Hi.

He had fired off applications straight away after completing MEP/IR/MCC. A training environment should equip the candidate for success, and the withholding of NDB work will stump many pilots at the sim stage or indeed interview stage when the interviewing management pilots ask where your training was conducted. He had never even seen a DME arc.

Contrary to popular belief, many operators value and indeed still use NDB approaches, including holding. If applying for a UK position, one would be expected to demonstrate NDB work in a sim check.

And yes, NDB work should most certainly be part of an IR test in my opinion as a humble ex RAF QFI and Hawker series TRE.
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Old 5th May 2016, 08:55
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: 738
Posts: 79
I can say that Bartolini has a big problem with their sim instructor. I have never felt I was wasting my money in that way before. Briefings were quite superficial, from time to time some advice, no de briefings. In my humble opinion, students would be more ready if they had another instructor for that stage.

Regarding DME ARC, I cannot agree with you here Hawker, as you have to perform a dme arc during the VOR app rwy 07 and it is also practiced as part of the basic IR in the real aircraft.

As I said the NDB should be practiced and taught during the sim phase, but...
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Old 5th May 2016, 16:35
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: England
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by Hawker 800 View Post
N80 Jamie Hi.

He had fired off applications straight away after completing MEP/IR/MCC. A training environment should equip the candidate for success, and the withholding of NDB work will stump many pilots at the sim stage or indeed interview stage when the interviewing management pilots ask where your training was conducted. He had never even seen a DME arc.

Contrary to popular belief, many operators value and indeed still use NDB approaches, including holding. If applying for a UK position, one would be expected to demonstrate NDB work in a sim check.

And yes, NDB work should most certainly be part of an IR test in my opinion as a humble ex RAF QFI and Hawker series TRE.
Just saying, NDB and DME work easily accessible on FSX at home, just the same as VOR work. I wouldn't put it down to a lack of training.....
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Old 6th May 2016, 06:44
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 133
Just saying, NDB and DME work easily accessible on FSX at home, just the same as VOR work. I wouldn't put it down to a lack of training.....
James,

And what may I ask is your experience in flight instruction? Your statement is quite worrying. Don't you think that these things (core elements of IFR flight) should be taught AND examined on an IRT?

In your infinite wisdom what would you put it down to, as it would appear they do not teach NDB? That's setting yourself up for failure.

Just saying...

From another thread on this forum. Not my quote.

Final word from an old sod. It worries me when aspiring pilots seem most interested in following the path of least resistance. If aviation is your passion, why don't you want to learn all their is to know about it? Why are you spending all your time and energy in looking for short-cuts? Aviation training has no equivalent to the X-factor. Ultimately, those who have put the time, money and effort into their apprenticeship make the best (and safest) pilots.

It can be quick, good and inexpensive, but not all three at once.

Last edited by Hawker 800; 6th May 2016 at 07:05.
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Old 6th May 2016, 07:13
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 36
Originally Posted by N80Jamie View Post
When did you finish your training Michael S (if you dont mind me asking)? I have also been very attracted to Bartolini Air due to costs and the good reviews they are getting from their training. My only concern was how the airliners view Bartolini Air's training package and subsequently how many jobs are offered to people who have chosen this route. It's good to hear you secured work so soon and the majority of students have also been doing so!

I will have finished my PPL in a few weeks so would be looking to enroll on their 0-fATPL course, minus the PPL obviously.
I finished my training mid 2015.

To all who claim they don't teach NDB. That's not true. They teach but in a sim. I was doing quite a lot of them. The only thing is they don't usually do it in the aircraft unless you specifically ask for that.
I must agree with the point that certain sim instructor should be retired.
The best instructors I ever had were guys on my MCC in Simtech (Dublin). With them it was a pleasure and I was looking forward for the next day of training and must admit I learned a lot from them.
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Old 7th May 2016, 10:16
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: England
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by Hawker 800 View Post
James,

And what may I ask is your experience in flight instruction? Your statement is quite worrying. Don't you think that these things (core elements of IFR flight) should be taught AND examined on an IRT?

In your infinite wisdom what would you put it down to, as it would appear they do not teach NDB? That's setting yourself up for failure.

Just saying...

From another thread on this forum. Not my quote.
As many posters have said,Bartolini do seem yo teach this.
No experience in flight instruction whatsoever, but as your quote says, if you want to be employed, put the work in. People may laugh at using FSX as a training tool, but regardless of the physics aspects you can use it to practice procedures. If I can teach myself to follow VOR/NDB/DME/ILS using my PPL books, FSX and a little web research, surely someone who is actually studying their IR would be able to ask to be shown/discover for themselves? Wouldn't that make them a better pilot? As well as showing some initiative. Ignore me by all means but why do people feel the need to be spoon fed learning? That's more worrying that someone expects to be in charge of 200 peoples lives without the ability to think for themselves, just saying......
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Old 9th May 2016, 17:20
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Over the rainbow
Posts: 36
No space

I wanted to join them but they offered me place only november on seneca and in february next year year on tecnam, wont be waiting that long, even though most reviews a positive! Any one heard about diamond flying academy in sweden?
Shutdownatpl is offline  
Old 16th May 2016, 15:48
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: UK
Age: 30
Posts: 21
IR Renewal

Hi guys,

I have been told that Bartolini do not offer the ME/IR Renewal, any past students that have actually done it? I find it quite strange that an FTO that offers the ME/IR course doesn't offer the renewal course?

Any feedback would be much appreciated.
Airforcejunior is offline  
Old 16th May 2016, 20:28
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: UK
Age: 30
Posts: 21
I have been told by Bartolini that they do not provide IR renewal training for external students? Am I missing something here?
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Old 1st Jul 2016, 16:06
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Ireland
Posts: 19
Any more experiences of this school?
gceyg is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2016, 14:42
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: EASA land
Posts: 9
Hello everybody,

I'm looking forward their EASA 0- fATPL. Does anyone here doing the same? Do you suggest me to enrole in this course even if I don't have PPL? I have been told that most students have their PPL first before enroling into their courses.
B77F is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2016, 07:37
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 229
If it is a 0 to fATPL then the PPL will be the first part of your training on the course.
The students you are probably referencing are enrolling onto the CPL / ME / IR course
keeflyer is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2016, 10:28
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: On the clouds
Posts: 31
My experience of Bartolini

I'm a ex-Bartolini student and overall I was happy with the School and what I got out of it. There are however a few issues. I'll give you all the pros and cons from my experience.......please though speak to lots of people and visit the School.

Pros

1. Cost - without a doubt great value training
2. P2002JF and P2006T are great modern aircraft
3. They have on-site engineers who sort any issues, checks etc quickly
4. Ground school is thorough and IR/airline focussed
5. Time span - I completed my training in 8 weeks
6. Most instructors were approachable and happy to help
7. Sim is new and identical to P2006T
8. The living costs are very cheap in Poland
9. Pay as you go. You have to pay in advance of each flight though.

Cons

1. The training was very slow at the beginning but when it did it get going it was crazily fast and placed undue pressure. I did my whole sim training in 7 days.
2. Okay....the sim instructor. Not sure if he's still there but I had a terrible experience with him and so did others. Very old school in his approach and gave very little instruction. If you struggle with something he just gets angry.
3. It can sometimes feel like you don't know what is going on and can seem very erratic. I think this is because the training program is very busy.

Would I got to Bartolini again? Without a doubt but mainly due to cost and time span. I enjoyed some aspects of my training but no all, which is a shame. Looking back I now have minimal debt and am in the same boat as most other fATPL holders. I agree with other comments its not the best place for hour building; you can do it but it will be a headache due to the flying program. Get everything sorted beforehand. It appeared much easier for students who were doing just the CPL/IR/ME.

Lots of people who went to Bartolini are getting jobs - many I was there with have jobs on TP, jets and as FIs. Many go to Ryanair but many also end up at regional and low cost UK airlines. This was mainly down to themselves though, making connection and putting themselves out there.

Hope this helps. If you have any further questions please feel free to message me.
cloudbash is offline  
Old 4th Sep 2016, 10:01
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Ireland
Posts: 19
Wonderful response. Thank you so much.
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