FAA JAA Conversion P1 issue
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2010
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From: UK
FAA JAA Conversion P1 issue
hello all,
I'm hoping someone can clear an issue i have up. I started off my flight training in sunny Daytona Beach.
I took my PPL in a 172 and obviously the solo time is P1 , next i took my Instrument Rating in a 172 as-well which i was told i could log as P1, then i took my Multi add one in a seneca which was all dual then i took my Commercial in a seneca as-well which i was also told i could log as P1.
I then returned to England and did the Atpls exams and started the long process of Converting my Licenses.
Now this is the bit im unsure on, as ive been told different things by different people.
Ive taken the Cpl test and Multi Test and am currently in the process of completing the IR,in order to convert the CPL i need a min of 100 P1 hours.
The question is will the CAA acknowledge the time I logged as P1 during my training in the States for the IR and the Commercial or will they dismiss this time as Dual ONLY??? I hope someone can put me straight on this, thanks
I'm hoping someone can clear an issue i have up. I started off my flight training in sunny Daytona Beach.
I took my PPL in a 172 and obviously the solo time is P1 , next i took my Instrument Rating in a 172 as-well which i was told i could log as P1, then i took my Multi add one in a seneca which was all dual then i took my Commercial in a seneca as-well which i was also told i could log as P1.
I then returned to England and did the Atpls exams and started the long process of Converting my Licenses.
Now this is the bit im unsure on, as ive been told different things by different people.
Ive taken the Cpl test and Multi Test and am currently in the process of completing the IR,in order to convert the CPL i need a min of 100 P1 hours.
The question is will the CAA acknowledge the time I logged as P1 during my training in the States for the IR and the Commercial or will they dismiss this time as Dual ONLY??? I hope someone can put me straight on this, thanks
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: EGYD
I find it incredible you managed to get through a JAA CPL without knowing how to log flight time but anyhow....
Section Page 44 of LASORS 2008 Documents | Personnel Licensing | Safety Regulation applies with regarding to logging of flight time.
Yes true for the CPL licence issue not for the ME(P) which some people get confused about.
If you are talking about the ME(P) conversion Section F of LASORS states that if you hold an ICAO rating equivilant you can complete training at the discretion of the head of training.
To me it appears that you haven't read any of the UK regulations - which I think would be a good place to start read from LASORS 2008 Documents | Personnel Licensing | Safety Regulation especially since it's your responsibility to comply with them at licence issue.
Section Page 44 of LASORS 2008 Documents | Personnel Licensing | Safety Regulation applies with regarding to logging of flight time.
In order to convert the CPL i need a min of 100 P1 hours.
If you are talking about the ME(P) conversion Section F of LASORS states that if you hold an ICAO rating equivilant you can complete training at the discretion of the head of training.
To me it appears that you haven't read any of the UK regulations - which I think would be a good place to start read from LASORS 2008 Documents | Personnel Licensing | Safety Regulation especially since it's your responsibility to comply with them at licence issue.
- Section A Page 44
- Section D1.2(D) for Commerical
- Section E for the instrument rating requirements
- Section F for the multi Engine
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,759
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From: GA, USA
Not to kick you while you're down but this could all have been prevented if you would have told the school in the US in advance what your needs are hours wise.
The school should have known better, dealing with European students.
The differences in logging between JAA and FAA are not exactly Top Secret.
The school should have known better, dealing with European students.
The differences in logging between JAA and FAA are not exactly Top Secret.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,876
Likes: 1
From: Here
At the risk of being zapped like the first poster, I have a question that I should have been able to find; but have failed.
I have FAA CPL/IR, and most of my fixed wing hours are on N aircraft. For a future JAA CPL, can I use these hours to make up the minimum requirements (ie the aircraft I have flown have not been issued JAA State airworthiness certs).
My searching has not pulled up anything definitive either way.
Safe flights, Sam.
I have FAA CPL/IR, and most of my fixed wing hours are on N aircraft. For a future JAA CPL, can I use these hours to make up the minimum requirements (ie the aircraft I have flown have not been issued JAA State airworthiness certs).
My searching has not pulled up anything definitive either way.
Safe flights, Sam.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,524
Likes: 1
From: United Kingdom
My searching has not pulled up anything definitive either way.
Experience. An applicant for a CPL(A) who is not a graduate from an integrated flying training course shall have completed as a pilot on aeroplanes having a certificate of airworthiness issued or accepted by a JAA Member State at least 200 hours of flight time.
A quick call to the licensing authority of the relevant JAA state would then have confirmed that an FAA C of A is acceptable.
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 390
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From: London
From the original poster:
From one of the numerous posters who can't read:
The poor chap did FAA (read again, FAA, not JAA) licenses in the states and over there the rules are that pretty much any time after PPL is counted as P1, INCLUDING Instrument Rating. In other words, he did what the FAR book said and what his instructors said.
Now on CONVERTING his licenses, he found out that JAA count any training as Dual, not P1. Oops!
Now if his plan was always to convert his licenses to JAA, he probably should have looked into the conversion process and the hours required in more detail. But if, like myself, he did his PPL/IR in the USA and then later on decided to move back to the UK and get an ATPL he would have been caught completely unaware. I certainly did and went into complete panic until I added up the remaining hours outside Dual and P2 and found that I had 135 hours P1 hours (as per JAA criteria). Thank god for all those long cross countries to Vegas and Napa Valley :-)
So the answer the original question, the CAA will only count your IR and Multi-CPL training hours as Dual. Only P1 is post PPL solo time and flight tests.
P
I then returned to England and did the Atpls exams and started the long process of Converting my Licenses
I find it incredible you managed to get through a JAA CPL without knowing how to log flight time but anyhow....
Now on CONVERTING his licenses, he found out that JAA count any training as Dual, not P1. Oops!
Now if his plan was always to convert his licenses to JAA, he probably should have looked into the conversion process and the hours required in more detail. But if, like myself, he did his PPL/IR in the USA and then later on decided to move back to the UK and get an ATPL he would have been caught completely unaware. I certainly did and went into complete panic until I added up the remaining hours outside Dual and P2 and found that I had 135 hours P1 hours (as per JAA criteria). Thank god for all those long cross countries to Vegas and Napa Valley :-)
So the answer the original question, the CAA will only count your IR and Multi-CPL training hours as Dual. Only P1 is post PPL solo time and flight tests.
P
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 650
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From: Europe
Folks are right on P1, dual is not counting towards it, however as you need 250hrs min for your FAA CPL I'd imagine that you would have gained enough solo time-building hours to easily fulfill the 100hrs P1 requirement?!?
I did it exactly the same way, FAA CPL ME IR to JAA - 100hrs P1 were not an issue.
I did it exactly the same way, FAA CPL ME IR to JAA - 100hrs P1 were not an issue.
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,071
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From: EGYD
The poor chap did FAA (read again, FAA, not JAA) licenses in the states and over there the rules are that pretty much any time after PPL is counted as P1, INCLUDING Instrument Rating. In other words, he did what the FAR book said and what his instructors said.
Not knowing the regs for logging flight training and having passed the JAA CPL passed - kind of worrying.
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 390
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From: London
Infers he did not know the FAA regs either - if he had to be 'told'. equally worrying.
The guy did what just about every other student did when he started his IR. "Hey Mike, do I log this as P1 or P2?". Not "Hey Mike, I suppose that since you're an instructor approved by the FAA you might be able to answer a question about logging hours. But I don't trust you, so I'll go find the answer in the FARs instead".
Sigh.
