PVCAKES3728,

Tried to PM but couldn't.

Since you're at an important decision point, if you haven't done it by now, you might try a more US-centric av website. Your issue has been discussed by others too. Try this one...generally civilized (I have no association with them):

Changing Careers | Jetcareers

Best of luck to you.

Luckily, I look much younger than my age

Hi guys

I am 31 yrs old and always wanted to be a pilot. Am I too late to pursue this dream??

All other variables favourable - the answer is no.

Reading this thread can be of immense help.

Lol. Short and to the point

An initial type rating is challenging and needs to be completed within a finite timescale to a better than acceptable standard - if an employer is prepared to bond you for this, they require good odds that you will succeed in their timescale and to their standards. Youth presents lower training risks.

Younger employees are easier to indoctrinate, absorb information faster, are more mobile and are less likely to leave as seniority grows; many BA pilots will have spent their entire working lives there by the time they retire.
Because relevant experience is always measured commensurate to age - it's not as simple as just meeting the certification minima to qualify unless you are at the start of your career and you are young.
Yes, I think they do. I have heard comments concerning the youthfulness of both cockpit crew members and this is directly related to a layperson's perception of my earlier point about age being commensurate with experience. Employing older pilots however, with little experience would hardly compensate.

Reverserbucket,

"...many BA pilots will have spent their entire working lives there by the time they retire."

A worthy goal, is it not ?

bafanguy

It is, although of course few companies offer the prospect of an entire career with one employer. I am in favour of the suggestion that age should be no barrier and I know from experience that the US is somewhat different to other parts of the world in this regard, however in Europe, for some of the reasons stated, recruitment for that first job tends to favour the young.

Reverserbucket,

There's little "logic" to airline hiring mentality. Here in the States, I'd bet money seats WILL be filled and age will not be a barrier.

In fact, the company I worked for has been hiring people in their mid-ish 40s for some time now (even back when 60 was mandatory retirement age). There was a time here when 28 was too old. Back around the early 90s I worked with a new FO retired from the USAF. He was told he was too old at 31 but...magically, at 41 he no longer was !!

Seats WILL be filled !!!

bafanguy

I agree - I know guys in their late 40's and early 50's with no jet or T/P experience being hired by the regionals - they are marketable right now because they have 1500hrs either as CFI's or by other means. Europe is quite different though with no minimum hours requirement and an endless supply of young (non-sponsored or tagged) flight school graduates who are prepared to self-fund type rating courses (and line experience) at higher than market cost in order to secure a job. This in addition to those fortunate enough to find work where they are only bonded for training costs and where the employer selects those that present the lowest training risk for the reasons described earlier.

The other issue is scale - the US has an enormous aviation industry by comparison to Europe and whereas I have no doubt either that seats will be filled out of necessity, that level of demand will never be reached in Europe.

Reverserbucket,

Yes, somewhat different circumstances indeed.

I just don't get it.

All these people with good jobs that have dreamed of flying since they were 6 months old etc. etc.

Are you all qualified PPL's with an IR or at least IMC?

If not why not? If you dreamed of flying all your life then why are you only interested in throwing Ł100k+ at some airline scheme?

I wanted to fly since I was quite young, I was at the flying club when I was about 12 pestering them for info on learning to fly. I spent every spare bit of cash getting my PPL and then extra licences and flying all over.

How can you have always dreamed of flying, have a good job yet never had a PPL?

For those of you who do or even those who are thinking of training, get a PPL. Do your ATPL whilst enjoying flying as many different types as possible and get your IR. All these will be as much use flying for fun as they will commercially so not money wasted get a share in something and do that flying you always dreamed of. You may only have 1 or 2 passengers instead of loads of fare paying ones but who cares?.

If you still want to fly for a living after that then add a CPL (cheap if you already hold an IR) and an MCC then your ready to start sending out CV's. I tell you now you will make more contacts during your PPL flying than you ever will at some pilot training seminar. If you don't get a job who cares? All you have wasted is the CPL and MCC fee which is under Ł10k. You still have your current job and the ability to fly all over the world IFR in a shared aircraft which is what you have wanted to do all your life.

Of course, if its some kind of uniform fetish you have rather than a desire to actually fly you can always but some bars on ebay.

The answer is blowing in the windshear: sometimes dreams don't match with the wallet. Which is of course the main reason why flightschools are lacking students.

Prophead - well put.

The sad reality is that, particularly with the MPL, we are getting right hand seats increasingly occupied by automatons with little real flying experience in the real world. Sure, they can operate a medium sized jet and fly it within acceptable limits and to company SOPs. And good luck to them - many will have long, successful careers.

But have they ever been out on their own in the middle of nowhere and had a rough running engine? Ever been lost, I mean temporarily unsure of position, with the weather closing in? Scud running over the sea looking for a break in the clouds? Felt a bit twitchy when their lookout wasn't quite what it should be?

None of the above matters in the cosseted world of airline flying.....well, until that one time when the holes in the cheese line up. If only the travelling public had half a clue.

So I have started on the road to becoming an Airline Pilot. Currently training with the National Flight Centre in Weston Airport, Lucan. Dublin. Ireland
I have a few questions!!

1) I am 31 this June 20th…I am giving myself 3 years to get to the magical ATPL Frozen……Am I mad starting at my age?

2) I am taking the modular route as I am working to fund my training…. some Airline prefer pilots who have gone through the integrated course, however I would class modular pilots as having a slight advantage as the learning is slower so in theory you learn more as it has time to sink in…correct?? If a modular pilot applies to an airline that states integrated only, will the application simply be ignored?

3) In regards to hour building, will it have to be done with a school / club? I have access to a friend’s Cessna 150 and I plan to travel around Europe once my PPL is completed. However, if flying a friend’s aircraft how can my hours be verified or can they?

4) I will be looking at applying to Aer Lingus or Ryanair… (Ryanair preferred as I prefer the Boeing yoke to the Airbus side stick) the type rating in Ireland is approx. €30,000 Euros which the airline gladly accepts then you live on bread and water for 6 months until you get the 3rd stripe and they start paying you! My question is I have been told Ryanair have started bonding scheme where the new pilot will sign up for X amount of years and they take the 30k from you wages?

Thanks for your time, any other hints / tips would be greatly appreciated

In particular to the UK how old too old to have a realistic chance of making it as an airline pilot?.With anti-age discrimination laws now in place is there no such thing as "too old" or do the airlines find ways around it?
Cheers.

My personal 2 cts.

1. No you're not too old. Some airlines clearly prefer younger candidates, others don't care. In the corporate flying world they actually prefer older chaps.

2. Nobody cares about the theory. You will not be better or worse educated as a modular. The theory is too easy to be considered impressive so everybody gets 90+% average these days (especially with the QB)

2. Yes, your application will be binned instantly when you apply to an integrated only position. And quite a few airlines have CTC/FTE/ etc as preferred integrated suppliers. There are, it seems to me, less chances as a modular student to get into the big jets, but it is not impossible at all.

3. Nobody cares about your hour building. Just make sure for yourself, that you don't waste the hours flying circles around your hometown but actually learn something. Nobody checks your logbook for signatures. The CAA can check it if they want to by auditing your friend's airplane log if they desire.

4. Don't know. This bonding story was floating around when I started my training 5 years ago. Might be happening, might not? That said, aer lingus is by FAR the better employer (really, world of difference) so who gives a crap that they fly airbus? You're on auto pilot anyway so you might as well be comfortable.

As a modular student myself, I would like to add the following. I am currently only flying SEP airplanes around as a part time job in the weekend, trying to scrounge up a few hours here and there to hopefully move on eventually. I have friends that got a bonded TR on a big jet, others that paid their own, and others that paid for TR and line and are now actually employed somewhere else. A few are still instructing, and a single one never got a job and moved on with his life after a lot of heartache. What I want to say is that nobody knows what will happen in your career, and nobody in aviation is going to give a crap and go out of their way to hire you. In the end, it all depends on your perseverance and unfortunately quite a bit of luck/timing.

Is the scheme open to non EU citizens?

Heading for that big jet in the sky

An somewhat ambiguous choice of words for someone who is just starting.....

BSK, I think your 3 questions have already been answered, all I can add - I'm also in the same age group doing my ATPLs at the moment. When I did my first ATPL ground-school recently most people were around our age, very few below 25, good few in their 40ties.. I'd say age shouldn't be an issue.

What could be an issue thou is sounds like you're looking at airlines close to home and dare I say, even sound to be a bit picky about machines you're willing to fly. That's a good long term ambition, but to kick your career off your chances of staying in Ireland are extremely small. Aer Lingus very rarely do direct entry recruitment for low hour cadets (and when they do, every CV from Europe lands on their desks). It practically never happens. Last year we saw one recruitment drive which was first in god know how many years..

Ryanair on the other hand wont keep you in Ireland. Low hour cadets start in Poland, South Italy and other places where no-one want's to work due to difficulty for a foreigner to settle down with a family

I don't want to burst your bubble and who knows, things can work out for you just the way you have planned, but I personally am prepared mentally and physically to leave everything behind, fly whatever, live wherever just to get that first gig. Ryanair job in Wroclaw will feel like a gift This attitude should make things easier for me, or so I hope