Oxford Aviation Employment Statistics
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Thank goodness for Ryanair for taking these 71 aswell as the others they have taken from FTE, PTC etc. Only for them there would be a lot more pilots in the dole queue.
Wait 10 years down the line till the next recession and they will be experienced and get the chop for the next batch of youngsters....
apologies for the thread creep sir.
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UAV689,
Ryanair is also hiring direct entry captains. And for your info the "babies" cant get into Korean Air, Vietnam Airlines, Wizz Air, Ethiad, Denim Air, Avanti Air, Tyrolean etc who are all or have all been recently hiring due to our lack of hours. Not to mention the amount of other companies who tell us "babies" that they cant accept our applications because we dont have 1500 hours or 500 multi hours etc etc.
So I think you last post was slightly out of context.
Ryanair is also hiring direct entry captains. And for your info the "babies" cant get into Korean Air, Vietnam Airlines, Wizz Air, Ethiad, Denim Air, Avanti Air, Tyrolean etc who are all or have all been recently hiring due to our lack of hours. Not to mention the amount of other companies who tell us "babies" that they cant accept our applications because we dont have 1500 hours or 500 multi hours etc etc.
So I think you last post was slightly out of context.
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Another Oxford Modular grad here (in employment). I was quite happy with the standard of training I received at Oxford and have no complaints regarding the course (especially as my licence was about £40k cheaper than those of the Integrated guys).
OAA as an institution however provides no employment support for the modular guys and for that reason I do not consent to being used as an OAA employment stat. In fact a recent OAA scheme specifically barred mod grads from applying, which I found so deplorable that I nearly wrote to complain.
I should say that the careers officer, Nick Mylne, is a great chap who goes above and beyond the call of duty to help graduates, mod included. His help is very much appreciated but it is given by him on a personal level, not by OAA as an institution.
OAA as an institution however provides no employment support for the modular guys and for that reason I do not consent to being used as an OAA employment stat. In fact a recent OAA scheme specifically barred mod grads from applying, which I found so deplorable that I nearly wrote to complain.
I should say that the careers officer, Nick Mylne, is a great chap who goes above and beyond the call of duty to help graduates, mod included. His help is very much appreciated but it is given by him on a personal level, not by OAA as an institution.
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little harder to move over seas with wife/kids etc which is what some of these experienced guys have, most of those airlines you listed are overseas.
If your an experienced FO in UK i think things are bleak, sometimes I really question has this profession gone to the wall and should i stick at my current job rather than pursuing this one!
Any way again sorry for going totally off topic, morale of the story, back to thread is that OAA are sharks out to make a few quid from you all. (not that every school isn't out for a profit, just not to the tune of what oaa charge!)
If your an experienced FO in UK i think things are bleak, sometimes I really question has this profession gone to the wall and should i stick at my current job rather than pursuing this one!
Any way again sorry for going totally off topic, morale of the story, back to thread is that OAA are sharks out to make a few quid from you all. (not that every school isn't out for a profit, just not to the tune of what oaa charge!)
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torque
Nick Mylne is a top bloke. We had him for air law. Only he can make that subject interesting.
I especially like his response when you even got the simplest question right. He just said 'beautiful'.
I especially like his response when you even got the simplest question right. He just said 'beautiful'.
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UAV689,
I understand what your saying as I know similar guys who training with me who cant move but in the current market beggers cant be choosers experienced or not!
But as you said back to OAA as that is what this tread is about!
I understand what your saying as I know similar guys who training with me who cant move but in the current market beggers cant be choosers experienced or not!
But as you said back to OAA as that is what this tread is about!
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We get phone calls every day from Oxford students looking for work as instructors at the FTO I work for - many of whom were on some kind of sponsorship scheme which hasn't provided work etc.
Oxford's marketing department is good
Oxford's marketing department is good
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Someone needs to send that link to the major newspapers, they'd jump all over it, especially the Daily Mail!
I got made redundant earlier this year thanks to some little wannabe skygods paying to do my job! Now my old airline won't even take on experienced First Officers. Dig a hole for yourselves wannabes, or make a stand and save this profession, not just for us, but for yourselves too!
I got made redundant earlier this year thanks to some little wannabe skygods paying to do my job! Now my old airline won't even take on experienced First Officers. Dig a hole for yourselves wannabes, or make a stand and save this profession, not just for us, but for yourselves too!
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media and joe bloggs wouldnt give two hoots about poor old airline pilot
1 - people think they are all rich, why cry for a rich pilot when factory workers laid off..
2 - people dont even understand that an FO can fly the aircraft
3 - people still think everyone is sponsored, and dont pay vast somes to train.
Industry is screwed, only a bad prang will change views and rules.
1 - people think they are all rich, why cry for a rich pilot when factory workers laid off..
2 - people dont even understand that an FO can fly the aircraft
3 - people still think everyone is sponsored, and dont pay vast somes to train.
Industry is screwed, only a bad prang will change views and rules.
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Interesting video. It states the truth about paying for line training. If you look back 18 months or so it also states what was actually the bleedin' obvious to anyone who cared to pay attention to the way the market was going.
I do object however to Ryanair being mentioned at the end as although they almost undoubtedly were the first major carrier to require one to self sponsor, they certainy don't do line training deals, the TR has a solid job attached to it and so far i've not met any FO flying less then 700hrs per year.
It's a tough world for wannabe's for sure, but the writing was on the wall a long time ago and if you recently qualified from an integrated course then you ignored all the signs before you started.
I've said it, others have said it, don't pay for line training. It will get you absolutely nowhere at the moment and if there was a general need for pilots then these schemes wouldn't exist as they do now. The knock-on effect is that people who had jobs through graft, tenacity and ability are losing them so that the pay to fly pilot can have the seat. Temporarily of course.
It took me 2yrs to get my first job and I don't know how much was to luck or timing, tenacity or ability. A dollop of each I imagine. While I waited I returned to my old office job and paid the bills. I didn't have any loans for flying as I was able to do the self improver route but I did have a mortgage and wife and daughter to support.
Most people seem to be so young and so desperate. Get some life experience doing something else that pays. You've got years and years ahead of you to fly, and i'm sure for many it will happen in the end. Be patient, batten down the hatches and don't subscribe to a system that clearly will not only not get you anywhere but also destroys other people's lives.
I do object however to Ryanair being mentioned at the end as although they almost undoubtedly were the first major carrier to require one to self sponsor, they certainy don't do line training deals, the TR has a solid job attached to it and so far i've not met any FO flying less then 700hrs per year.
It's a tough world for wannabe's for sure, but the writing was on the wall a long time ago and if you recently qualified from an integrated course then you ignored all the signs before you started.
I've said it, others have said it, don't pay for line training. It will get you absolutely nowhere at the moment and if there was a general need for pilots then these schemes wouldn't exist as they do now. The knock-on effect is that people who had jobs through graft, tenacity and ability are losing them so that the pay to fly pilot can have the seat. Temporarily of course.
It took me 2yrs to get my first job and I don't know how much was to luck or timing, tenacity or ability. A dollop of each I imagine. While I waited I returned to my old office job and paid the bills. I didn't have any loans for flying as I was able to do the self improver route but I did have a mortgage and wife and daughter to support.
Most people seem to be so young and so desperate. Get some life experience doing something else that pays. You've got years and years ahead of you to fly, and i'm sure for many it will happen in the end. Be patient, batten down the hatches and don't subscribe to a system that clearly will not only not get you anywhere but also destroys other people's lives.
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because most people on this forum are all talk and no backbone. When it comes down to it, people only care about themselves. I have already leaked aload of stuff to one leading aviation publication. But guess who their advertisers are!? 
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I wonder what the effect would be if, say, some pilots who had lost their jobs for these pay-to-fly kids, stood around easys check-in desks (in uniform so as to attract attention) and handed out leaflets explaining that the aircraft they're about to fly on will only have 1 professional pilot on board.
I do find it somewhat offensive that every OAA graduate is branded with the ‘rich daddy brush’.
Somewhat offensive? Man-up soldier.
OAA, CTC, FTE et al and these Ryanair/easyJet pay-to-fly schemes are the cancer that are going to slowly and painfully kill our profession.
Simple as.
Stick with instructing for as long as you can and find a career which offers you respectful pay, security and terms & conditions.
Here's a hint, you won't find it at an airport.
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soon there will be plenty of A320 pilots with 75-500h on type. Where they will go? BA? KLM? lufthansa? oh maybe Alitalia? ahah! or Emirates, yeah I eared they are looking for experimented FO.
this profession is
I can tell you.There is no way to get a job if you pay to fly.
I bet you will see Ryanair doing the same in a few days/weeks and many other airline will follow the same type of scheme (scam?).
They will suck you dry(squeeze the lemon, until no pulp left), then kick you dry on the streets with your debts to pay.
"but Sir, you have 500h on type, with this you can find a job, good luck "
"sure I can find a job if I pay to fly , again...!"
this profession is
I can tell you.There is no way to get a job if you pay to fly.I bet you will see Ryanair doing the same in a few days/weeks and many other airline will follow the same type of scheme (scam?).
They will suck you dry(squeeze the lemon, until no pulp left), then kick you dry on the streets with your debts to pay.
"but Sir, you have 500h on type, with this you can find a job, good luck "
"sure I can find a job if I pay to fly , again...!"
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Keeping in mind we're only talking about 2 airlines (EZY and Ryanair) who have these sorts of schemes. Around the world there are 100's if not a few 1000 airlines, not to mention Business Jet companies and other flying jobs all together, so there will be some time yet if things become across the board in terms of TR and Line Training.
An EZY pilot I know who got in before all this stuff happened is on a different contract all together, so is not affected it seems. Only new cadets. EZY got rid of quite a few of CTC cadets last year as they no longer required their services (especially with schemes like this coming about).
If this industry ends up going like EZY and Ryanair (whilst Ryanair actually employs pilots for another £24k!!) in all companies (I doubt), then I'll hang up my bags as common sense kicks in, as it's becoming a career not worth pursuing, especially the Line Training part, that's a complete joke!
"why not pay a company so you can work for them, rather than them paying you".
An EZY pilot I know who got in before all this stuff happened is on a different contract all together, so is not affected it seems. Only new cadets. EZY got rid of quite a few of CTC cadets last year as they no longer required their services (especially with schemes like this coming about).
If this industry ends up going like EZY and Ryanair (whilst Ryanair actually employs pilots for another £24k!!) in all companies (I doubt), then I'll hang up my bags as common sense kicks in, as it's becoming a career not worth pursuing, especially the Line Training part, that's a complete joke!
"why not pay a company so you can work for them, rather than them paying you".
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A said by someone before I think that this industry is really over. As a pilot. 
You cannot get any money from that. Not worth the price anyway, considering all the efforts both emotional and economic we all dealt with... And, yes, needless to say, things will get worse with time as globalization goes on. It's just a market rule : as long as there will be the demand for, offer will be present...Italian's "market" has a lot of airlines offering the same schemes proposed by Easy and Ryan as well...
It's funny that there's still a lot of people who keep on depicting this as a common, fairly democratic and non-elite job...
You cannot get any money from that. Not worth the price anyway, considering all the efforts both emotional and economic we all dealt with... And, yes, needless to say, things will get worse with time as globalization goes on. It's just a market rule : as long as there will be the demand for, offer will be present...Italian's "market" has a lot of airlines offering the same schemes proposed by Easy and Ryan as well...It's funny that there's still a lot of people who keep on depicting this as a common, fairly democratic and non-elite job...
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Don't throw away your money now is not the time
If you have a £100k to play with invest it in property not an over priced shiny blue license.
Don't give up on your dream either but start your flight training when you can expect to get a job after it and remember once you go 1 year without a job or flying after license issue your seen as damaged goods and its even harder to land a job.
I'm currently flying 737s and I can tell you there are a lot of unemployed 737 pilots out there with 000s of hours. Who do you the think the airlines will choose? (other than the type rating factories ie EZY & FR)
Don't give up on your dream either but start your flight training when you can expect to get a job after it and remember once you go 1 year without a job or flying after license issue your seen as damaged goods and its even harder to land a job.
I'm currently flying 737s and I can tell you there are a lot of unemployed 737 pilots out there with 000s of hours. Who do you the think the airlines will choose? (other than the type rating factories ie EZY & FR)
Last edited by CaptainJim; 9th Jan 2010 at 16:34.
flyer101