IMCr as a precursor to the full IR.

[DanConer]

I was wondering if anyone thinks doing the IMCr rating and seeing how I get on would be a good indicator as to whether I would be cut out for the full IR?
I’m a PPL and confident enough that I could cope with the CPL/ATPL theory but must admit I do have some doubts as to whether I have the capacity for the IR.
I appreciate that the IMC is not a patch on the full IR difficulty wise but was thinking it might be a good way to see if I have any aptitude for instrument flying- at least that way if I’m awful I can quit whilst I’m 2-3k down rather than 20k-30K+ further down the road.

Anyone else done both and got any opinions?

[IrishJetdriver]

The IMC and IR have lots in common as far as the exercises flown. The big difference is the accuracy required and the aircraft you may fly. For the IMC you are most likely to have a more basic IF equipped aircraft and for the IR they're usually the full monty with HSI/RMI and of course 2 engines.

The better equipped the aircraft the easier it will be. Previous IF experience is always a Good Thing but not strictly necessary. You should always try to fly to IR standards even now. It will help in the long run.

I don't know if you get any credit for an IMC rating. IR training is a very thorough programme. I guess you could also have a couple of goes in a simulator if you had access to one

[Shunter]

I appreciate that the IMC is not a patch on the full IR difficulty wise

That depends where you do it. Some teach the bare bones, some a whole lot more. I was flying SIDs, DME arcs, proper hold joins and every approach you can think of when I did mine a few years back. When I started "IR level flying" it wasn't some magical, huge change in standard all of a sudden. Whilst the IMC rating is a valuable qualification, bear in mind that none of the training will count towards an IR. This is a JAA idiocy; it would ALL count towards an FAA IR.

You don't particularly give the impression that you're firmly aboard the ATPL gravy train, so if all you want is an IR, just do the IR theory; it's about 40% of the work of the ATPL exams.

There's an EASA working group currently looking at IR requirements. I believe one aspect of that is dicussing the current enforcing of 50hrs training on everyone, regardless of experience. Some might need more than 50, but there are plenty of experienced IMC holders for whom 15-20hrs would probably be quite adequate in terms of brush up for an IR test. I wouldn't expect to see any change in the immediate future, but there is change on the horizon.

[Plastic Chicken]

I would say its a very good idea. So much so, that I did it myself. But you shouldn’t see it as an IR ‘Lite’ as it is really designed to allow you to get yourself out of trouble and find a suitable landing site using appropriate navigation aids. Do not expect the IMC to allow you to land in fog! The minima is much higher than IR rated pilots for very good reason. I found it useful in terms of discipline and confidence: nailing altitudes and headings and, of course getting used to heads down instrument flying and associated radio calls. The hope was to enable me to extend my hours building into the cruddy winter months. I really have to start studying though....

[excrab]

The IMC rating can be very useful if you are thinking about an IR later, as long as you treat it sensibly. If you want to use it to fly from A to B there is no reason that you shouldn't, the priveleges of the rating attached to a PPL allow you to, obviously with limitations on landing minima and some controlled airspace. But there is no reason not to plan flights under a lot of the airways structure if you avoid the south east of the UK.

When I was instructing full time, after students had got the rating back, and could thus log IMC flying as P1, we used to do that with them for a few trips, with an instructor acting as safety pilot but not putting anything in the instructors log book (obviously needs instructors who are not hours building themselves). If you can spend a 50 of your hours building for a modular CPL flying cross country flights in IMC, departing IFR and arriving IFR to a procedural ILS or non precision approach to minimas you will be much better prepared for the IR, and if you can find a like minded colleague, although you can only log half of the time, you can spend the other half sitting in the right hand seat practising your radio nav orientation plus you can monitor each other to make sure that you are flying to IR standards and not getting sloppy.

Also, take the time to learn morse code - it isn't required anymore, but flying single pilot IFR with no autopilot is a lot easier if you don't have to look away from your scan to read the dots and dashes printed on the approach chart.

[Cirrus_Clouds]

I obtained an IMC rating during last year, with the intention of gaining some IR experience the cheaper way. I haven't used it much, as I'm studying for ATPL, but when I come to completing my hour building, I plan to get current with IMC flying. Hopefully this will assist me when it comes to my CPL and IR.

It's best to gain instrument experience at £100/hr instead of £400/hr on a twin! ... and will increase your chances of a first time pass - that's how I look at it anyway.

In short, I'd recommend you get one.

[Dane-Ger]

The IMC was invaluable for me, I recieved a a fantastic grounding in all the principles required for the IR (down to an excellent instructor I may add). It was also one of the reasons I passed my MEIR first time in minimum hours.

I completed my IMC rating before I started hour building in earnest, and whilst I never used it in anger, it certainly gave me confidence during a months hour building whilst flying 80 hours in the Scottish springtime!

[excrab]

Gav28,

How is it confusing? I'm not getting at you, but the paragraph of mine which you cut and pasted says

"If you can spend a 50 of your hours building for a modular CPL flying cross country flights in IMC..."

That is in instrument meteorologica conditions - which the privileges of your IMC rating allow you to fly in and log time as P1 - not with the screens up in good weather with a safety pilot. If I had meant that I would have said it.

There are plenty of airfields in the UK where you can depart and arrive under IFR in IMC, with procedural ILS/NDB/VOR approaches. If the club where you trained won't let you do it then I would suggest two things. One would be to ask the examiner who tested you for your IMC rating why he or she told the CAA that you were competent to fly in IMC but then won't let you hire a club aircraft to do it in? The second would be to find another club.

As far as instructors "giving up their time" to fly around in real IMC with you logging P1 - maybe I didn't make that quite clear. When we used to do it the pilot we were flying with still paid the flying club as if it was dual instruction, and we still got paid as salaried instructors, the difference was that they filled in the authorisation sheets and tech log and we didn't put anything in our log books. The other difference was that we were instructing on PPLs (in my case back then on a PPL / IR), all the instructors had several thousand hours already in our log books and weren't desperately trying to log every possible minute in the race to the airlines. But that was then and this is now...maybe you will have to search around a bit.