IR training tips
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IR training tips
Hi
Ive recently finished my degree and am booked in and ready to start my ME/IR.
As i want to make the most of every lesson i wondered if anyone had any useful tips, things i should revise before hand, books to read, bits in the plane to practice etc all before i start on the 29th July
nervous but excited!
James
Ive recently finished my degree and am booked in and ready to start my ME/IR.
As i want to make the most of every lesson i wondered if anyone had any useful tips, things i should revise before hand, books to read, bits in the plane to practice etc all before i start on the 29th July
nervous but excited!James
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Spend a lot of time armchair flying going over procedures etc in your head.
I also found tools like RANT very good.
The more prep on the ground the more you will get out of each lesson and the cheaper it will be.
When you're flying you will probably find yourself getting overloaded to start with so the better understanding of what you are trying to do will give you more capacity to fly the plane to the tolerances required.
Most of all enjoy it!
I also found tools like RANT very good.
The more prep on the ground the more you will get out of each lesson and the cheaper it will be.
When you're flying you will probably find yourself getting overloaded to start with so the better understanding of what you are trying to do will give you more capacity to fly the plane to the tolerances required.
Most of all enjoy it!
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after every lesson that you have learnt something new, make your own notes about it as long as you have understood it. ie/ holds, ndb approaches etc..
the IR course notes i got were pants and i could not make sence of them. once i got what i was doing i went back and made notes in my little booklet which i still have and its alot easier to understand and recall.
the IR course notes i got were pants and i could not make sence of them. once i got what i was doing i went back and made notes in my little booklet which i still have and its alot easier to understand and recall.
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If only we were taught to "Fly"
If we were taught to fly correctly ( not Vfr , not Ifr ) from the beginning , it would make the so called transition to an IFR rating much easier.
Tmb
Tmb
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I don’t think so! Saying something like that means you are in the mood for a discussion!
I don’t know about anyone else here but I completely disagree with you. IR flying/training or should I say flying commercial jets is just one notch above sitting in your chair playing Flight Simulator!
“Flying” is all about looking out of the window and using great stick and rudder skills! I love "flying" but dislike monitoring.
I don’t know about anyone else here but I completely disagree with you. IR flying/training or should I say flying commercial jets is just one notch above sitting in your chair playing Flight Simulator!
“Flying” is all about looking out of the window and using great stick and rudder skills! I love "flying" but dislike monitoring.
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Flying
betpump5:
Could be.
Ensure you that I do not play with Flight Simulator. Had a 43 year career in instructing ( from the lowest grade to the highest grade).
If you think about it carefully, the instructional concept of teaching a simple climb or descent is really a case of an outside visual reference being replaced by an inside visual reference.
It should not be a case of learning to fly an aircraft visually and then learning to fly on instruments. The aircraft does not know if it is in sunlight or in the cloud.
There are many areas in flying training that should be combined.
Tmb
Could be.
Ensure you that I do not play with Flight Simulator. Had a 43 year career in instructing ( from the lowest grade to the highest grade).
If you think about it carefully, the instructional concept of teaching a simple climb or descent is really a case of an outside visual reference being replaced by an inside visual reference.
It should not be a case of learning to fly an aircraft visually and then learning to fly on instruments. The aircraft does not know if it is in sunlight or in the cloud.
There are many areas in flying training that should be combined.
Tmb
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Get a bicycle and traffic cone and go to a Woolworths car park to practice hold entries, procedure turns etc... As you make your way around, recite your checklists.
PM
...am I being serious?
Yup!
PM
...am I being serious?
Yup!
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Tmbstory,
let me assure you that I was not using the typical "flight-sim pilot" insult to contradict what you said. In fact, I did not for one second think that you were anything but a pilot as I have heard the same opinion mentioned before by professional colleagues.
I was just quipping as it were that IFR (i.e regardless of the weather you should be relying on instruments alone) is just like a simulator, whether it be a flight sim on PC or an airline simulator.
Therefore any chance to do VFR is welcome.
By the way, reciting check-lists in your head at the appropriate time is a proven way to make it last longer if you know what I mean....
let me assure you that I was not using the typical "flight-sim pilot" insult to contradict what you said. In fact, I did not for one second think that you were anything but a pilot as I have heard the same opinion mentioned before by professional colleagues.
I was just quipping as it were that IFR (i.e regardless of the weather you should be relying on instruments alone) is just like a simulator, whether it be a flight sim on PC or an airline simulator.
Therefore any chance to do VFR is welcome.
By the way, reciting check-lists in your head at the appropriate time is a proven way to make it last longer if you know what I mean....
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Ifr training tips
Betpumps5:
Thanks for your explanation of the post.
Since the beginning of flight instructing up until now, there has been a need to update the syllabus on the teaching of people to "Fly". Not VFR and not IFR, just to be taught how to Fly.
I wish that the Industry would put some serious thought into this subject.
Regards
Tmb
Thanks for your explanation of the post.
Since the beginning of flight instructing up until now, there has been a need to update the syllabus on the teaching of people to "Fly". Not VFR and not IFR, just to be taught how to Fly.
I wish that the Industry would put some serious thought into this subject.
Regards
Tmb
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Original Question
Hi guys, sorry to interupt the party but if you look at the title it asks about the Oxford compass exam not what people have been up to or just a general arguement. Please just help the gentleman, if I can read between the lines he wants a heads up as to whats in the exam/test not what to revise. He wants the questions. Now I may be wrong but I'm just sitting on the fence and being devils avocate.
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dji8879,
What are you on about? The OP clearly wants info on the IR course. I think you have replied to the wrong thread. Not sure how though?
Back on topic, my best advice is;
1) Trim! Let the A/C fly itself. You have a lot of tuning/fiddling/writing/talking to do at once. If the A/C is in trim, life is easy.
2) Descend at no more than 1000fpm. 500fpm is nice and gentle.
3) All turns rate one.
4) Regardless of what your CRP tells you, there are only 3 types of drift: 5, 10 and 15 degrees.
The information you used to calculate drift is not accurate enough to give you anything else. Besides, you probably will not be able to accurately fly drift to the degree.
If you need 20 degrees of drift, you will not be doing your test. You will not have a nice time on an NDB DME approach trying to maintain +/- 5 degrees QDM.
5) Practice your test route SIDs and STARS/approaches on flightsim. Rubbish for flying, but stick it on AP and get used to what the needles do.
6) Do not write ANYTHING down on final approach. Even when the controller gives you a non standard MA procedure 2 miles from the MAP. It WILL happen. Pick up your pen and watch the needles bust their limits instantly! Just remember what they said and say it back.
7) Trim.
8) Practice the EF after GA at home in your armchair.
10) Overall, the IR is about performing to a high standard just by using the most basic principles and techniques. Trimming, rate one turns, PAT - APT, power plus attitude equals performance and knowing your A/C figures will allow you concentrate on the 'IR' side of things.
Usual PPRUNE disclaimer, I know you can do instrument approaches with 20 degrees of drift but my comments are specifically aimed at the IR course.
Enjoy!
What are you on about? The OP clearly wants info on the IR course. I think you have replied to the wrong thread. Not sure how though?
Back on topic, my best advice is;
1) Trim! Let the A/C fly itself. You have a lot of tuning/fiddling/writing/talking to do at once. If the A/C is in trim, life is easy.
2) Descend at no more than 1000fpm. 500fpm is nice and gentle.
3) All turns rate one.
4) Regardless of what your CRP tells you, there are only 3 types of drift: 5, 10 and 15 degrees.
The information you used to calculate drift is not accurate enough to give you anything else. Besides, you probably will not be able to accurately fly drift to the degree.
If you need 20 degrees of drift, you will not be doing your test. You will not have a nice time on an NDB DME approach trying to maintain +/- 5 degrees QDM.
5) Practice your test route SIDs and STARS/approaches on flightsim. Rubbish for flying, but stick it on AP and get used to what the needles do.
6) Do not write ANYTHING down on final approach. Even when the controller gives you a non standard MA procedure 2 miles from the MAP. It WILL happen. Pick up your pen and watch the needles bust their limits instantly! Just remember what they said and say it back.
7) Trim.
8) Practice the EF after GA at home in your armchair.
10) Overall, the IR is about performing to a high standard just by using the most basic principles and techniques. Trimming, rate one turns, PAT - APT, power plus attitude equals performance and knowing your A/C figures will allow you concentrate on the 'IR' side of things.
Usual PPRUNE disclaimer, I know you can do instrument approaches with 20 degrees of drift but my comments are specifically aimed at the IR course.
Enjoy!
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Thinking back to 60 and 30 degrees to go for the inbound track to the hold.
If its inbound on 270. At 60 degrees before in a lefthand hold(330) the needle should indicate 270 and 30 degrees should be 260. To account for dip.
Just trying to remember what I was taught during the IR.
Thanks
PT
If its inbound on 270. At 60 degrees before in a lefthand hold(330) the needle should indicate 270 and 30 degrees should be 260. To account for dip.
Just trying to remember what I was taught during the IR.
Thanks
PT
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Hah - re. 5, 10, 15 degrees of drift - I had 46kt straight across the hold during my test... 15kt on the ground is perfectly ok for a test. You might need a bit more drift than 15 up top!!
Think simple. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. In your climb, your cruise, everywhere - is the aircraft trimmed and in the correct configuration, is what I want the aircraft to be doing the same as what it is actually doing? Then, are my navaids set, ident correctly and am I flying in the right direction - how long until I get to the next event? Then... do I need to talk to or listen to anybody at the moment, and who will I need to talk to or listen to next? Not very different to VFR, but it helps when you need to turn overhead a fix, descend a long way in a short distance due to ATC keeping you high, intercept an NDB track and re-plan your hold entry because the wind is veering and backing like a drunk snowboarder, all at the same time!
When you get your ATIS for the destination, think 4 things in cycle: 1. Set destination QNH on your standby altimeter, 2. Check you have the correct approach plate, 3. Check visibility against minima (approach ban?), 4. Check crosswind component for your aircraft. After this you can assess whether you are LIKELY to get in based on cloud cover, but the 4-step cycle covers the LEGAL requirements for making the approach.
Leaving controlled airspace think 2 things:
1. Which frequency for a LARS, 2. Which (quadrantal) flight level is appropriate?
Note DME distances from aids to the edge of controlled airspace during the planning phase.
Icing awareness - doesn't matter how cold the freezer is, you won't make ice cubes if there's no water in the tray! But in cloud and visible moisture check OAT every 1000'.
Most of all, enjoy it, relax, and be confident - confidence is a very important factor in performance during the IR (in my experience).
AD
Think simple. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. In your climb, your cruise, everywhere - is the aircraft trimmed and in the correct configuration, is what I want the aircraft to be doing the same as what it is actually doing? Then, are my navaids set, ident correctly and am I flying in the right direction - how long until I get to the next event? Then... do I need to talk to or listen to anybody at the moment, and who will I need to talk to or listen to next? Not very different to VFR, but it helps when you need to turn overhead a fix, descend a long way in a short distance due to ATC keeping you high, intercept an NDB track and re-plan your hold entry because the wind is veering and backing like a drunk snowboarder, all at the same time!
When you get your ATIS for the destination, think 4 things in cycle: 1. Set destination QNH on your standby altimeter, 2. Check you have the correct approach plate, 3. Check visibility against minima (approach ban?), 4. Check crosswind component for your aircraft. After this you can assess whether you are LIKELY to get in based on cloud cover, but the 4-step cycle covers the LEGAL requirements for making the approach.
Leaving controlled airspace think 2 things:
1. Which frequency for a LARS, 2. Which (quadrantal) flight level is appropriate?
Note DME distances from aids to the edge of controlled airspace during the planning phase.
Icing awareness - doesn't matter how cold the freezer is, you won't make ice cubes if there's no water in the tray! But in cloud and visible moisture check OAT every 1000'.
Most of all, enjoy it, relax, and be confident - confidence is a very important factor in performance during the IR (in my experience).
AD
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IFR Flying Tips
Firstly you have to become skilled and confident flying IFR so do not cheat in anyway ie looking round the goggles foggles it is all about your scan
Each lesson decide when you are going to carry out your navigation aid checks as they will always come at the wrong time if you leave them and then the instructor will introduce failure senarios at the same time so get well ahead of the aeroplane
Use a good simulator to really get confident in setting up arrival's departure and practice where it is cheaper ie on the ground
Turn off the GPS, so key because you will use it for situational awareness if it is there and you have to use VOR NDB.
And lastly become skilled and confident flying IFR do not let your eyes see the horizon or the ground at any time during the training (you can for landing)
Each lesson decide when you are going to carry out your navigation aid checks as they will always come at the wrong time if you leave them and then the instructor will introduce failure senarios at the same time so get well ahead of the aeroplane
Use a good simulator to really get confident in setting up arrival's departure and practice where it is cheaper ie on the ground
Turn off the GPS, so key because you will use it for situational awareness if it is there and you have to use VOR NDB.
And lastly become skilled and confident flying IFR do not let your eyes see the horizon or the ground at any time during the training (you can for landing)
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Personally, my top tip for IR is "be kind to yourself". It's a very hard course anyway and it's hard bloody work when you're in the early stages....so be kind to yourself. Also remember to keep going - if you make a mistake in 170 or IRT then curse for no more than 5 seconds and put it behind you...if you let yourself "think" you've failed it, then you'll make more mistakes and probably will.
Also, I'd say you're likely to have more than one point when you think "I just don't get this". On those days think back to when you'd never flown a complex, or a twin and how hard THAT seemed back then....perspective that you WILL get it right helps a lot. Other than that - make absolutely damn certain you're in trim!
Also, I'd say you're likely to have more than one point when you think "I just don't get this". On those days think back to when you'd never flown a complex, or a twin and how hard THAT seemed back then....perspective that you WILL get it right helps a lot. Other than that - make absolutely damn certain you're in trim!
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African Dude,
I put my disclaimer to discourage your obvious post. There is always someone on PPRUNE who has to wave their willy and show off. Well done.
Every instructor I have ever known will discourage IR training, particularly in the hold, with silly cross wind components. Of course it's possible, and of course it is done in the real world.
However, you will be far, far more likely to bust your limits and get little training value.
Why on earth did you do your test with a 46kt cross wind? You are creating a lot of extra work and reducing your chances of passing. All for the same qualification as the person who waited for a 20kt cross wind. I'd be genuinely interested to know?
After suggtesting a skill test with 46kts across the hold, you then say
Don't get me wrong, I'm not having a pop. You may well be much more experienced than me, but what you say flys in the face of everything I was taught.
Like I said earlier, you have to draw a line between real world SPA IFR flying and IR training. For training, your goal is to learn new skills and to pass a test.
If your whizz wheel starts telling you 20 degrees of drift in the hold, think twice before you start burning £350 ph.
I agree with everything else though.....
I put my disclaimer to discourage your obvious post. There is always someone on PPRUNE who has to wave their willy and show off. Well done.
Every instructor I have ever known will discourage IR training, particularly in the hold, with silly cross wind components. Of course it's possible, and of course it is done in the real world.
However, you will be far, far more likely to bust your limits and get little training value.
Why on earth did you do your test with a 46kt cross wind? You are creating a lot of extra work and reducing your chances of passing. All for the same qualification as the person who waited for a 20kt cross wind. I'd be genuinely interested to know?
After suggtesting a skill test with 46kts across the hold, you then say
Think simple.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not having a pop. You may well be much more experienced than me, but what you say flys in the face of everything I was taught.
Like I said earlier, you have to draw a line between real world SPA IFR flying and IR training. For training, your goal is to learn new skills and to pass a test.
If your whizz wheel starts telling you 20 degrees of drift in the hold, think twice before you start burning £350 ph.
I agree with everything else though.....
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Yeah EK don't get me wrong - I'm not willy waving (wouldn't want to knock you out with all that 'experience' of mine!! lol) - don't have that much experience either compared to anybody else who's beginning their career. Actually the weather in general wasn't too bad, just a tad breezier than forecast!! As you would, I made the weather assessment based on the information available. On that day, we were within limits to go.
I think a lot of companies teach different holding techniques (not sure?) to get you back to the beacon. I was once shown something in the sim with a 15 degree single drift from a direction which required 3 x drift application into wind on the outbound leg. Not my prettiest ever hold!! Ok, forget the details, but I just wanted to say that we'd covered that training point in the sim, so on that particular test day I didn't feel like there was anything there which would be reducing my chances of passing! But everybody is different and if you hadn't have wanted to go well, that would have been your decision and that's fine.
Hope that answers your question. Feel free to PM me.
I think a lot of companies teach different holding techniques (not sure?) to get you back to the beacon. I was once shown something in the sim with a 15 degree single drift from a direction which required 3 x drift application into wind on the outbound leg. Not my prettiest ever hold!! Ok, forget the details, but I just wanted to say that we'd covered that training point in the sim, so on that particular test day I didn't feel like there was anything there which would be reducing my chances of passing! But everybody is different and if you hadn't have wanted to go well, that would have been your decision and that's fine.
Hope that answers your question. Feel free to PM me.