Archerfield - (FTA or AAA) ?
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Archerfield - (FTA or AAA) ?
Hi People,
I am commencing pilot training shortly and have decided to undertake an Advanced Diploma of Aviation + Flight Instructor course at Archerfield in Brisbane due to proximity, I live in the city!
Anyway I have read through the forums extensively for information and opinions on FTO's located at Archerfield, specifically Flight Training Australia (Flight Training Australia - Home) and Australian Airline Academy (Australian Wings Academy - Airline Pilot Training Academy). It is these two organizations that are on my shortlist, they look the most promising and I have recently visited them both to get a personal first hand view of the establishments, their facilities and fleets.
All of the past reviews of these two FTO's appear to be no newer than 2005 and I was just wondering if anybody had any more recent experience with these training facilities? Especially since the arrival of Captain Peter Boughen of Qantas as Managing Director at Flight Training Australia. Also, surely RQCA / AAA has a different scene now nearly five years down the track.
The courses on offer are similar, but have the following differences;
Total price (Including all materials, maps, instruments, uniforms, books, and one attempt at each CASA exam throughout the course (no hidden costs apparently)):
AAA: $80,500
FTA: $86,000
Total flying hours at the culmination of the course:
AAA: 133.4 Dual (23.3 Multi-engine) / 70 Solo
FTA: 170 Dual (20 Mutual ?) / 70 Solo
After visiting the above FTO's I had my own impressions of each. AAA appeared more like a "sausage factory" training academy with a very impersonal feel to it whereas FTA appeared more personal and tailored to the individual. The fleet of aircraft operated by AAA appears much newer and standardized, operating Cessna 172RG's / 172R's and Beechcraft Duchess's whereas the fleet at FTA appeared older and more varied, operating Tomahawk's, 152's, 172's, Bellanca Decathlon's, Beechcraft Duchess's, and a Cessna 310R and a Piper Chieftain, all considerably older than the aircraft operated by AAA (or so it appears anyway).
So, if anybody out there has any possible information that could guide my decision making process in the right direction it would be much appreciated. I don't know where else to look for pointers as to which organization would be the sounder choice for the Advanced Diploma in Aviation (ATPL frozen). Any info at all would be great, time is of the essence and I would hate to enroll at one only to regret it a couple of weeks / months later.
Thanks in advance,
The BoneShaker.
I am commencing pilot training shortly and have decided to undertake an Advanced Diploma of Aviation + Flight Instructor course at Archerfield in Brisbane due to proximity, I live in the city!
Anyway I have read through the forums extensively for information and opinions on FTO's located at Archerfield, specifically Flight Training Australia (Flight Training Australia - Home) and Australian Airline Academy (Australian Wings Academy - Airline Pilot Training Academy). It is these two organizations that are on my shortlist, they look the most promising and I have recently visited them both to get a personal first hand view of the establishments, their facilities and fleets.
All of the past reviews of these two FTO's appear to be no newer than 2005 and I was just wondering if anybody had any more recent experience with these training facilities? Especially since the arrival of Captain Peter Boughen of Qantas as Managing Director at Flight Training Australia. Also, surely RQCA / AAA has a different scene now nearly five years down the track.
The courses on offer are similar, but have the following differences;
Total price (Including all materials, maps, instruments, uniforms, books, and one attempt at each CASA exam throughout the course (no hidden costs apparently)):
AAA: $80,500
FTA: $86,000
Total flying hours at the culmination of the course:
AAA: 133.4 Dual (23.3 Multi-engine) / 70 Solo
FTA: 170 Dual (20 Mutual ?) / 70 Solo
After visiting the above FTO's I had my own impressions of each. AAA appeared more like a "sausage factory" training academy with a very impersonal feel to it whereas FTA appeared more personal and tailored to the individual. The fleet of aircraft operated by AAA appears much newer and standardized, operating Cessna 172RG's / 172R's and Beechcraft Duchess's whereas the fleet at FTA appeared older and more varied, operating Tomahawk's, 152's, 172's, Bellanca Decathlon's, Beechcraft Duchess's, and a Cessna 310R and a Piper Chieftain, all considerably older than the aircraft operated by AAA (or so it appears anyway).
So, if anybody out there has any possible information that could guide my decision making process in the right direction it would be much appreciated. I don't know where else to look for pointers as to which organization would be the sounder choice for the Advanced Diploma in Aviation (ATPL frozen). Any info at all would be great, time is of the essence and I would hate to enroll at one only to regret it a couple of weeks / months later.
Thanks in advance,
The BoneShaker.
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Which one did you end up choosing, I had a meeting with FTA for the diploma and Professional Piot plan.
Massive shock when I was told the price of the Diploma, just wow. No wonder there is a shortage of pilots.
I am very excited to have a go though, just need to figure out my path.
FTA? Thoughts...
Massive shock when I was told the price of the Diploma, just wow. No wonder there is a shortage of pilots.
I am very excited to have a go though, just need to figure out my path.
FTA? Thoughts...
Join Date: Mar 2008
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DO NOT PAY UPFRONT..
Go and check out Sunland aviation, you will be able to sleep at night knowing your money is safe. Also, use the search button and open your eyes and learn from peoples mistakes. Refer to my opening statement!
All the best,
Go and check out Sunland aviation, you will be able to sleep at night knowing your money is safe. Also, use the search button and open your eyes and learn from peoples mistakes. Refer to my opening statement!
All the best,
A little further away but you could also consider Redcliffe Aero Club**. It's not that far away via the Gateway. They have a good range of aircraft in good condition. Some are new.
No matter what, DON'T pay up front. There is nothing that any school offers you that can't be gained at another school while paying piecemeal or in minimal amounts to cover an impending flight or two. Any more and you risk losing all your money if (when!) the school experiences financial difficulties.
If you're so sold on a particular school that no other is close and they insist on lots of money up front then only - and I do mean only - consider them if you can establish a trust account with a financial institution that requires your authorisation for them to debit the amount. Otherwise walk away.
I've been in aviation since the early '80s eventually becoming a Chief Pilot and Chief Flying Instructor two and three times, respectively, before moving overseas. The list of schools that are still extant is small compared to those that have closed. I can't think of any school that's closed with everyone getting their money back.
Regarding aircraft types being mixed or uniform: In the early stages of training uniformity is a good thing. There's a steep enough learning curve without chopping & changing the environment. Later, when skills are more developed, variety will extend skills. Although presentation is nice, underlying maintenance & serviceability is more important.
Later: In keeping with the trend of this thread, I should add that RAC don't require up front payments. Payment at the end of the flight is expected although you can keep any amount you like on account with them and have the amount debited after each flight instead. Entirely optional and you won't pay any extra by paying piecemeal.
**Disclaimer: I used to be an instructor at Redcliffe Aero Club in the late 80's to early '90s. From what I've read on PPRuNe over the years they've been pretty consistent with satisfied students. Their fees have always been cheap(er) compared to Archerfield too. If you train there it's worth joing the club for the member's rates.
No matter what, DON'T pay up front. There is nothing that any school offers you that can't be gained at another school while paying piecemeal or in minimal amounts to cover an impending flight or two. Any more and you risk losing all your money if (when!) the school experiences financial difficulties.
If you're so sold on a particular school that no other is close and they insist on lots of money up front then only - and I do mean only - consider them if you can establish a trust account with a financial institution that requires your authorisation for them to debit the amount. Otherwise walk away.
I've been in aviation since the early '80s eventually becoming a Chief Pilot and Chief Flying Instructor two and three times, respectively, before moving overseas. The list of schools that are still extant is small compared to those that have closed. I can't think of any school that's closed with everyone getting their money back.
Regarding aircraft types being mixed or uniform: In the early stages of training uniformity is a good thing. There's a steep enough learning curve without chopping & changing the environment. Later, when skills are more developed, variety will extend skills. Although presentation is nice, underlying maintenance & serviceability is more important.
Later: In keeping with the trend of this thread, I should add that RAC don't require up front payments. Payment at the end of the flight is expected although you can keep any amount you like on account with them and have the amount debited after each flight instead. Entirely optional and you won't pay any extra by paying piecemeal.
**Disclaimer: I used to be an instructor at Redcliffe Aero Club in the late 80's to early '90s. From what I've read on PPRuNe over the years they've been pretty consistent with satisfied students. Their fees have always been cheap(er) compared to Archerfield too. If you train there it's worth joing the club for the member's rates.
Last edited by Tinstaafl; 21st Aug 2009 at 19:52.
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Hey mate,
if you can, try to find a place that does not pay up front or in large installments, i have a few friends that have had a real hard time getting their money back when they tried to leave. Find a place that you can pay as you go, that way your money can still build interest for you and not for anyone else. I studied at AAA, and the instructing was really good, however as time went on there were a couple of things that did not appeal to me, so i moved to redcliffe and have not looked back. The course is cheaper, the instruction is really good, you fly when you want and you pay as you go. Anyways, hope that helped if its not too late.
if you can, try to find a place that does not pay up front or in large installments, i have a few friends that have had a real hard time getting their money back when they tried to leave. Find a place that you can pay as you go, that way your money can still build interest for you and not for anyone else. I studied at AAA, and the instructing was really good, however as time went on there were a couple of things that did not appeal to me, so i moved to redcliffe and have not looked back. The course is cheaper, the instruction is really good, you fly when you want and you pay as you go. Anyways, hope that helped if its not too late.
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fta or aaa
Hi there,
i have just one paragraph for you!!!!
FTA has been destroyed by mr Qantas!!!!! unless your affiliated with air chine or part of the indian contingent, you will spend the next 18 months just trying to get you PPL. The ground school venture failed fantastically and the instructors are teaching a syllabus that the new CFI cant agree with so you fail first time everytime!!! i finished training there in the good old days of Humphrey maltman , ( RIP). instructors had wider experience and the structure was great... these days, students finish CPL(if there lucky), get the Grade 3 and start teaching you.. Which means your gunna struggle if you wanted an International trip or even a quick hop through Sydney centre!!!!!
Do your homework!!!!!!
its worth a trip to redcliffe!!!
i have just one paragraph for you!!!!
FTA has been destroyed by mr Qantas!!!!! unless your affiliated with air chine or part of the indian contingent, you will spend the next 18 months just trying to get you PPL. The ground school venture failed fantastically and the instructors are teaching a syllabus that the new CFI cant agree with so you fail first time everytime!!! i finished training there in the good old days of Humphrey maltman , ( RIP). instructors had wider experience and the structure was great... these days, students finish CPL(if there lucky), get the Grade 3 and start teaching you.. Which means your gunna struggle if you wanted an International trip or even a quick hop through Sydney centre!!!!!
Do your homework!!!!!!
its worth a trip to redcliffe!!!
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Did you not see yesterdays AAA Thread?
My advice is to stay away from the bigger schools, AAA being one of them. They sevre one interest only, and thats (profits) their own self interest - not yours!
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I know this has already been mentioned but the link that was posted for Airline Academy of Australia is actually not that school, it is Australian Wings Academy on the Gold Coast, and seeing as there are some threads floating around that are not really showing AAA in a great light it might be a good idea to remove that link, just in case somebody gets confused, its not really fair to potentially give a good school a bad name because someone has posted an incorrect link on the net.
