Does the CAA check the hours in your logbook?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 516
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From: Northampton
Does the CAA check the hours in your logbook?
Warning - misleading thread title...
First off, no, I have most certainly not entered fraudulent hours into my logbook in any way, shape or form. Glad we cleared that one up!
Posting this out of complete curiosity - the CAA (or any other aviation authority for that matter) require your logbook along with certain other documents to check you meet the necessary criteria pertaining to the issue of a licence, which is what my query regards.
I buzzed the friendly people up at Personnel Licensing a few days ago, and was informed that my application was being worked on as we spoke. Fantastic. But what does 'being worked on' mean? This implies a little more than a quick check to see that the hours meet the requirements, stamp the book and off it goes into the back of a long wheelbaser...
I suppose it's an odd question, and if any of you think you may lose sleep if I don't produce some sort of justification for it, I'll just say I like to know where my money goes.
Cheers
First off, no, I have most certainly not entered fraudulent hours into my logbook in any way, shape or form. Glad we cleared that one up!
Posting this out of complete curiosity - the CAA (or any other aviation authority for that matter) require your logbook along with certain other documents to check you meet the necessary criteria pertaining to the issue of a licence, which is what my query regards.
I buzzed the friendly people up at Personnel Licensing a few days ago, and was informed that my application was being worked on as we spoke. Fantastic. But what does 'being worked on' mean? This implies a little more than a quick check to see that the hours meet the requirements, stamp the book and off it goes into the back of a long wheelbaser...
I suppose it's an odd question, and if any of you think you may lose sleep if I don't produce some sort of justification for it, I'll just say I like to know where my money goes.
Cheers
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 284
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From: London, Berlin, Bucharest
what licence/ rateing have you applied for?
probably just counting your hours and double checking things like how much IF/ night/ PIC etc hours flying you have done that is required to issue the relevent rateing.
probably just counting your hours and double checking things like how much IF/ night/ PIC etc hours flying you have done that is required to issue the relevent rateing.
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 447
Likes: 1
From: wherever I lay my hat
I have heard of them catching errors in addition, and a colleague on an FI course many years ago had to fly additional hours prior to issue of the rating because he had a significant number of P1(u/s) hours that they were not happy with.
A colleague who used to work in the CAA told me of a rating being denied because one of the chaps working in the licencing department realised the aircraft in the log book was in a hangar on jacks when it was supposed to be flying according to the log book accompanying the application.
A colleague who used to work in the CAA told me of a rating being denied because one of the chaps working in the licencing department realised the aircraft in the log book was in a hangar on jacks when it was supposed to be flying according to the log book accompanying the application.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 564
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From: Over Mache Grande?
My initial CPL application was rejected due to being 35 minutes short - an error that the Instructor and I had both failed to spot early on, and had got compounded. They sent everything back & told me to go complete the course! Thankfully it did not negate the skills test I had just passed.
That 35 mins cost me a lot more than it would have done had it been tacked onto a normal flight.
So yes, they most certainly do check your logbook, both for accuracy, and possibly a few G-BIRO entries as has been alluded to by 4S.
DW.
That 35 mins cost me a lot more than it would have done had it been tacked onto a normal flight.
So yes, they most certainly do check your logbook, both for accuracy, and possibly a few G-BIRO entries as has been alluded to by 4S.
DW.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
From: A long way from home
Yes, they do check your log book, but not as thoroughly as they could.
They check:
- You've added everything up correctly.
- You've logged sufficient hours to fulfill the requirements.
They don't check:
- That your logbook agrees with the aircraft tech log.
- That the aircraft was serviceable for those flights (not in maintenance etc.)
Basically they check, but they don't get Poirot on the case unless they smell a rat.
They check:
- You've added everything up correctly.
- You've logged sufficient hours to fulfill the requirements.
They don't check:
- That your logbook agrees with the aircraft tech log.
- That the aircraft was serviceable for those flights (not in maintenance etc.)
Basically they check, but they don't get Poirot on the case unless they smell a rat.
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 149
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From: England
Two friends of mine did their PPl and hour building in Florida. Three people rented Pa28s together, flew together, and all three of them logged the hours P1. Fact.
Two of them are now employed. One on private jets, other for Ryanair. Fact.
I did everything in UK, they way I was advised to, all hours legitimate. Fact. I am unemployed. Makes you wonder...............
Two of them are now employed. One on private jets, other for Ryanair. Fact.
I did everything in UK, they way I was advised to, all hours legitimate. Fact. I am unemployed. Makes you wonder...............
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 34
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From: Oklahoma USA
I heard of a pilot who went for his ATP license checkride. The examiner looked through his logbook to see that he had the proper experience.
The examiner came upon some entries for a particular aircraft. In fact quite a few entries. He questioned the pilot about them and was not satisfied with the answer. Then he told the applicant that the aircraft in question was his personal aircraft and that he had never seen the applicant in the past and certianly had never given him permission to fly his personal aircraft, so how was it that he had several hundred hours logged in that airplane?
Needless to say the applicant was speechless.
The examiner declined to give the applicant a checkride and reported the facts to the local FAA office. I do not know what they did about it but I am sure it was not a favorable outcome for the applicant. I bet he lost all of his certificates and had to start over again!
I bet the applicant saw that aircraft flying on a certain day and so he took it upon himself to "log a few hours" in it as no one would find out it was not him flying it.
Bill
The examiner came upon some entries for a particular aircraft. In fact quite a few entries. He questioned the pilot about them and was not satisfied with the answer. Then he told the applicant that the aircraft in question was his personal aircraft and that he had never seen the applicant in the past and certianly had never given him permission to fly his personal aircraft, so how was it that he had several hundred hours logged in that airplane?
Needless to say the applicant was speechless.
The examiner declined to give the applicant a checkride and reported the facts to the local FAA office. I do not know what they did about it but I am sure it was not a favorable outcome for the applicant. I bet he lost all of his certificates and had to start over again!
I bet the applicant saw that aircraft flying on a certain day and so he took it upon himself to "log a few hours" in it as no one would find out it was not him flying it.
Bill
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Oklahoma USA
You may record flight time in hours and minutes, or in hours and tenths.
If you record hours and minutes then you can make the entries to the nearest minute. If you record in hours and tenths, then to the nearest half a tenth or 3 minutes.
Bill
If you record hours and minutes then you can make the entries to the nearest minute. If you record in hours and tenths, then to the nearest half a tenth or 3 minutes.
Bill
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From: UK
G
Joined: Oct 2007
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From: At home
I know of so many pencil pilots. They are everywhere, and it seems the only people able to stop them are the Airlines when it comes to interview time. It appears to me that the CAA either don't have the resources, or don't give a damn.
These are the guys you're competing with when it comes job hunting.
I know of one guy flying a 737 who has at least 1000 hours of pencil time in his book (possibly up to 1500). they usually give them selves away when they can't fly a plane, or can't even get an clearance (for which a friend of mine busted an newbie F/O and sent him back to the unemployment office a while ago).
we're basically all on the honor system, and there's little honor left in a lot of new pilots these days.
These are the guys you're competing with when it comes job hunting.
I know of one guy flying a 737 who has at least 1000 hours of pencil time in his book (possibly up to 1500). they usually give them selves away when they can't fly a plane, or can't even get an clearance (for which a friend of mine busted an newbie F/O and sent him back to the unemployment office a while ago).
we're basically all on the honor system, and there's little honor left in a lot of new pilots these days.
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 140
Likes: 5
From: UK
Sadly I've had similar experiences to Wyle E and Wangus. Thankfully I can count them on one hand (so far) but they're out there... the honour system doesn't seem to be held in such high regard in these modern times, by a handful at least.
One was a guy who was logging the same P1 time as other guys on the same aircraft and another was logging time on an aircraft type that he was not qualified to fly. He later (years not weeks) became eligible on type which I s'pose makes it even less likely for his earlier creativity to ever come to light.
But, no point having sour grapes, just have to crack on.
One was a guy who was logging the same P1 time as other guys on the same aircraft and another was logging time on an aircraft type that he was not qualified to fly. He later (years not weeks) became eligible on type which I s'pose makes it even less likely for his earlier creativity to ever come to light.
But, no point having sour grapes, just have to crack on.
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,071
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From: EGYD
The CAA should require all schools to certify hours in log books etc.
One student asked me to certify his logbook which wasn't correct. I pointed out the errors, he asked me to sign it again. I informed him of the punishment which is stated on the CAA application forms and told him that if he didn't change his logbook I'd call the CAA myself and report him.
Another student tried to claim P1 whilst flying at our school with an instructor. The CAA called to confirm it was P1. I informed them it was dual and I assume his application was rejected. (Hope so anyhow)
The only thing you can do is have the morals to report pencil pilots to the CAA - in the best case you could prevent an accident.
To answer the question initially asked correctly yes they do check logbooks but only for the minimum required to be recorded.
We get logbooks sent back to students for no take off landing times, departure airfields, etc etc.
One student asked me to certify his logbook which wasn't correct. I pointed out the errors, he asked me to sign it again. I informed him of the punishment which is stated on the CAA application forms and told him that if he didn't change his logbook I'd call the CAA myself and report him.
Another student tried to claim P1 whilst flying at our school with an instructor. The CAA called to confirm it was P1. I informed them it was dual and I assume his application was rejected. (Hope so anyhow)
The only thing you can do is have the morals to report pencil pilots to the CAA - in the best case you could prevent an accident.
To answer the question initially asked correctly yes they do check logbooks but only for the minimum required to be recorded.
We get logbooks sent back to students for no take off landing times, departure airfields, etc etc.
