Keep at it Guys. This job is Fantastic
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Keep at it Guys. This job is Fantastic
Hi Guys/Gals,
Just wanted to say a little something. In the Terms of Endearment forum there is a thread about what you like about this job. Have a look at it. It is great to see that we all do love what we do which is why we do it. So often on this website it is full of negatives and I talk to allot of Wannabees around the UK and Europe who question this as a career so I thought I would convert my feelings into your wnnabe forum.
I started training for my ATPL exactly 8 years ago today and now I am a Captain. I have flown a variety of types from Biz Jets, Turbo -props to the B737.
I just wanted to say keep at it. This is a fantastic job and you will definately be glad you started this career when you get here. Its simply amazing and I seem to enjoy it more every day. There are so many plus points. The money is very good despite what allot of people say. Just compare it to other careers. Allot of people forget that we get allot of allowances and flight pay which is only partly taxed so our take home is allot better. We don't work that hard. I think I have only worked a full week about twice in 5-6 years. In the winter I often only work 5-10 days a month!!!!
The main reason this job is so great is that generally we all love doing it. You are around like minded people who all have worked hard to get here (pilots and cabin crew) and we all just have a great time. We all just love it and 99% of people that are in the industry are really good guys. The banter is great the job is fantastic and the views are amazing. Its a happy atmosphere to work in and you gain a tremendous amount of professional satisfaction. I can go on and on about why we like to fly aircraft.
Please do not feel put off by the current economic crisis this is the right time to learn. We have seen recessions many times before and this industry like many others has peaks and troughs. Just remember right now the industry is bad. No-one is recruiting. Most wannabes are not learning to fly as they think it is an unsafe thing to do and often can't get bank funding to start. Many may not percieve this as a viable career option. However many pilots have become unemployed in the UK and gone off to the middle east or asia for an ex-pat lifestyle. Many pilots are taking voluntary redundancy and still the same amount are retiring.
THIS MEANS IN A FEW YEARS THERE WILL BE A BIG PILOT SHORTAGE AGAIN. This business will pick up and airlines will not be able to train people quick enough. Its happened before and it will happen again.
So this is the time to do your ATPL so you will be ready 2-3 years down the line for when the job market picks up - Trust me.
When you get here you will love it. One thing I notice guys is that as I get older my friends in other professions seem to work harder and harder. Long hours every day and they have stresses and strains of targets and appraisals and deadlines etc etc.
I don't haha.
I get off the aircraft and leave work behind me.
Today I did a 4 hour duty, started at 7am LOCAL finished at 11am LOCAL and I am now spending the day at the gym then sitting in a beer garden in the sun. My friends are still in the office.
Funny thing is I had such a great time at work all week I really can't wait to go back to work again next week.
You can't put a price on that.
I remember what it is like when you are training and wondering if you will ever get there. We all take different amounts of time to get there depending on the market but you will get there trust me.
Keep at it guys, I look forward to flying with you.
Handflown
Just wanted to say a little something. In the Terms of Endearment forum there is a thread about what you like about this job. Have a look at it. It is great to see that we all do love what we do which is why we do it. So often on this website it is full of negatives and I talk to allot of Wannabees around the UK and Europe who question this as a career so I thought I would convert my feelings into your wnnabe forum.
I started training for my ATPL exactly 8 years ago today and now I am a Captain. I have flown a variety of types from Biz Jets, Turbo -props to the B737.
I just wanted to say keep at it. This is a fantastic job and you will definately be glad you started this career when you get here. Its simply amazing and I seem to enjoy it more every day. There are so many plus points. The money is very good despite what allot of people say. Just compare it to other careers. Allot of people forget that we get allot of allowances and flight pay which is only partly taxed so our take home is allot better. We don't work that hard. I think I have only worked a full week about twice in 5-6 years. In the winter I often only work 5-10 days a month!!!!
The main reason this job is so great is that generally we all love doing it. You are around like minded people who all have worked hard to get here (pilots and cabin crew) and we all just have a great time. We all just love it and 99% of people that are in the industry are really good guys. The banter is great the job is fantastic and the views are amazing. Its a happy atmosphere to work in and you gain a tremendous amount of professional satisfaction. I can go on and on about why we like to fly aircraft.
Please do not feel put off by the current economic crisis this is the right time to learn. We have seen recessions many times before and this industry like many others has peaks and troughs. Just remember right now the industry is bad. No-one is recruiting. Most wannabes are not learning to fly as they think it is an unsafe thing to do and often can't get bank funding to start. Many may not percieve this as a viable career option. However many pilots have become unemployed in the UK and gone off to the middle east or asia for an ex-pat lifestyle. Many pilots are taking voluntary redundancy and still the same amount are retiring.
THIS MEANS IN A FEW YEARS THERE WILL BE A BIG PILOT SHORTAGE AGAIN. This business will pick up and airlines will not be able to train people quick enough. Its happened before and it will happen again.
So this is the time to do your ATPL so you will be ready 2-3 years down the line for when the job market picks up - Trust me.
When you get here you will love it. One thing I notice guys is that as I get older my friends in other professions seem to work harder and harder. Long hours every day and they have stresses and strains of targets and appraisals and deadlines etc etc.
I don't haha.
I get off the aircraft and leave work behind me.
Today I did a 4 hour duty, started at 7am LOCAL finished at 11am LOCAL and I am now spending the day at the gym then sitting in a beer garden in the sun. My friends are still in the office.
Funny thing is I had such a great time at work all week I really can't wait to go back to work again next week.
You can't put a price on that.
I remember what it is like when you are training and wondering if you will ever get there. We all take different amounts of time to get there depending on the market but you will get there trust me.
Keep at it guys, I look forward to flying with you.
Handflown
Last edited by handflown; 24th Apr 2009 at 09:50.
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Oh and quick tip...
Today I did a 4 hour duty, started at 7am finished at 11am
Such a simple thing...
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Oohh, you cynic. 
Have to say I'd agree with most of what handflown says, except the bit about a big pilot shortage. Or maybe he means a shortage of big pilots - who can say?
On a good day, this is the best job in the world - in fact it's not a job, it's a way of life. That needs to be balanced against the not inconsiderable downsides (earlies, sims, daft security etc etc) and the huge financial risks in getting qualified and finding your first job.
That said, I can't imagine doing anything else.
Have to say I'd agree with most of what handflown says, except the bit about a big pilot shortage. Or maybe he means a shortage of big pilots - who can say?
On a good day, this is the best job in the world - in fact it's not a job, it's a way of life. That needs to be balanced against the not inconsiderable downsides (earlies, sims, daft security etc etc) and the huge financial risks in getting qualified and finding your first job.
That said, I can't imagine doing anything else.
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At least check his posting history before being so cynical JB007! Our profession probably has a higher percentage of people who genuinely love their jobs than any other.
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JB007
I am not in the UK at the moment. There are different time zone changes around the world you see. I will change it to started at 7am Local and finished at 11am Local for those who can't appreciate the geography of our job!!!
Also I am currently flying as a Captain for a Shorthaul operator so this is not a propaganda post. I am just trying to paint a positive picture and lend some advice. I apologise in advance for any critism that may create. PM me if you want!!!
Oh and yes I do really love my Job. Thank you.
Hope this clears a few points up.
I am not in the UK at the moment. There are different time zone changes around the world you see. I will change it to started at 7am Local and finished at 11am Local for those who can't appreciate the geography of our job!!!
Also I am currently flying as a Captain for a Shorthaul operator so this is not a propaganda post. I am just trying to paint a positive picture and lend some advice. I apologise in advance for any critism that may create. PM me if you want!!!
Oh and yes I do really love my Job. Thank you.
Hope this clears a few points up.
Last edited by handflown; 24th Apr 2009 at 09:48.
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I stand corrected on handflown...apologies...
Apart from your pilot shortage, it doesn't stand up, in the UK at least! My airline is proof of that alone...
Your posting was just a little too 'sickly' for my liking, although in a Wannabe Forum I suppose it's fitting and what the average Wannabe may focus on - I don't work with anyone who doesn't love this job and I agree with G_SXTY, it is a way of life that I wouldn't change - but it is a job and I don't live to work.
Maybe my Cynicism is proof I should stay out of Wannabe Forums!
Apart from your pilot shortage, it doesn't stand up, in the UK at least! My airline is proof of that alone...
Your posting was just a little too 'sickly' for my liking, although in a Wannabe Forum I suppose it's fitting and what the average Wannabe may focus on - I don't work with anyone who doesn't love this job and I agree with G_SXTY, it is a way of life that I wouldn't change - but it is a job and I don't live to work.
Maybe my Cynicism is proof I should stay out of Wannabe Forums!
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Sorry its just what I think. I currently work for a company that is far from perfect but I still enjoy flying.
I enjoy my job and was just trying make a positive impact and I didn't realise it would create so much cynical comments particularly from a pprune moderator!
Perhaps this website is only good for people taking information and winging instead of someone trying to be nice and happy about what they do.
I think as current Airline Pilots it is our duty to be enthusiastic and encourage those whom are working hard to enter this profession.
I enjoy my job and was just trying make a positive impact and I didn't realise it would create so much cynical comments particularly from a pprune moderator!
Perhaps this website is only good for people taking information and winging instead of someone trying to be nice and happy about what they do.
I think as current Airline Pilots it is our duty to be enthusiastic and encourage those whom are working hard to enter this profession.
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handflown
I for one appreciate your post. Yes we are in a recession and all that but I can't wait to get started full time on my ATPL studies. You get out what you put in.
In all the times I have visited Pprune this is one of the few positive posts I have read.
I am glad you like going and looking forward to going to "work" each day. I hope I will get the same feelings when my time comes.
J
I for one appreciate your post. Yes we are in a recession and all that but I can't wait to get started full time on my ATPL studies. You get out what you put in.
In all the times I have visited Pprune this is one of the few positive posts I have read.
I am glad you like going and looking forward to going to "work" each day. I hope I will get the same feelings when my time comes.
J
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I think the advice to start pilot training now, is like the argument telling people to buy stock and fund shares now.
Some people will argue that the market is poor, and your best bet is to put your money in the bank. Others will reckon that what goes down must come up.
It's never a matter of when you start your training, or when you buy stock. It is at what time you finish -- or sell out -- that counts. But starting when things are bad -- prices are low -- will most likely give you a better possibility to get out while you are ahead.
When will the next pilot shortage be? When will the recession end? This summer? This year? Next year? Five years? Ten years? I don't know, I don't have a magic orb. Some chances you just have to take
FTR, personally I buy as much stock as I can afford now without borrowing, in good faith. I would not have a problem with my best friend starting flight training today.
Some people will argue that the market is poor, and your best bet is to put your money in the bank. Others will reckon that what goes down must come up.
It's never a matter of when you start your training, or when you buy stock. It is at what time you finish -- or sell out -- that counts. But starting when things are bad -- prices are low -- will most likely give you a better possibility to get out while you are ahead.
When will the next pilot shortage be? When will the recession end? This summer? This year? Next year? Five years? Ten years? I don't know, I don't have a magic orb. Some chances you just have to take
FTR, personally I buy as much stock as I can afford now without borrowing, in good faith. I would not have a problem with my best friend starting flight training today.
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Start training now for an upturn in a year or two? Risky advice!
Along with the well publicised failures of some major carriers, XL, ZOOM, Silverjet etc. there has been a major, quiet and slow job cull throughout the industry.
Compulsory redundancies, voluntary redundancies, unpaid leave, sabbaticals for 12 months, tough rules on failed sim checks, not replacing retirees (there goes the new retirement bubble) and so on. The industry is bleeding qualified, experienced pilots from both the left and right seats at the moment. Major airlines and many minor ones are rationalising their staff base and culling all un-necessary staff and you advise starting training now?
United have cut 27000 jobs just to try and keep the business afloat. Whilst all are not pilot jobs obviously, there will be no 'rush' to return airlines to pre-crash manning levels. Add to that Delta, US and all of the smaller carriers around the world and you get an idea of how many 'qualified' pilots are out of work at the moment.
Take your two years training and then add on a year or two again as the industry soaks up the qualified hold pools that are currently full.
Not trying to be too negative, it is indeed a good job. (Although, if I am being brutally honest, Airline flying is not the most challenging aviation job in the world) but before you leap head first into a difficult and potentially expensive environment it is worth knowing the risks.
Good luck
Along with the well publicised failures of some major carriers, XL, ZOOM, Silverjet etc. there has been a major, quiet and slow job cull throughout the industry.
Compulsory redundancies, voluntary redundancies, unpaid leave, sabbaticals for 12 months, tough rules on failed sim checks, not replacing retirees (there goes the new retirement bubble) and so on. The industry is bleeding qualified, experienced pilots from both the left and right seats at the moment. Major airlines and many minor ones are rationalising their staff base and culling all un-necessary staff and you advise starting training now?
United have cut 27000 jobs just to try and keep the business afloat. Whilst all are not pilot jobs obviously, there will be no 'rush' to return airlines to pre-crash manning levels. Add to that Delta, US and all of the smaller carriers around the world and you get an idea of how many 'qualified' pilots are out of work at the moment.
Take your two years training and then add on a year or two again as the industry soaks up the qualified hold pools that are currently full.
Not trying to be too negative, it is indeed a good job. (Although, if I am being brutally honest, Airline flying is not the most challenging aviation job in the world) but before you leap head first into a difficult and potentially expensive environment it is worth knowing the risks.
Good luck
Last edited by wobble2plank; 24th Apr 2009 at 14:52.
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well said
Handflown, your a hero! lol
No but on a serious note, thank you for taking your time to write somthing which made me remmeber why I even bothered to start pursuing this career. I got accepted into an FTO the other day and I've not had that feeling of "wow its really happening" until I read your post and started smiling.
Cheers mate!
No but on a serious note, thank you for taking your time to write somthing which made me remmeber why I even bothered to start pursuing this career. I got accepted into an FTO the other day and I've not had that feeling of "wow its really happening" until I read your post and started smiling.
Cheers mate!
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Handflown - Thank you! There was a very big smile came across my face when i read your post. Reading things like this makes me realise why i want to get into the business, even though it's going to be difficult.
I am one of the "wannabe's" who has chosen not to go down the flying route for the time being, because i cannot afford it and i'm afraid that i will put all the £££'s in and then won't be able to get a job out of it at the end.
I am going into the Royal Navy for now as an ATC while the economy stabilizes to save like mad and finish my ppl.
TurningFinals.
I am one of the "wannabe's" who has chosen not to go down the flying route for the time being, because i cannot afford it and i'm afraid that i will put all the £££'s in and then won't be able to get a job out of it at the end.
I am going into the Royal Navy for now as an ATC while the economy stabilizes to save like mad and finish my ppl.
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Very positive comments from Handflown. Thanks.
However, pls remember balance out all the pros and cons first before deciding to take action. Don't let emotional feelings take over ur decision!!
David
However, pls remember balance out all the pros and cons first before deciding to take action. Don't let emotional feelings take over ur decision!!
David
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Originally Posted by handflown
THIS MEANS IN A FEW YEARS THERE WILL BE A BIG PILOT SHORTAGE AGAIN. This business will pick up and airlines will not be able to train people quick enough. Its happened before and it will happen again.
So this is the time to do your ATPL so you will be ready 2-3 years down the line for when the job market picks up - Trust me.
The second part of that quote also needs picking apart, I would read what wobble2plank wrote, I have been advocating that on these boards for a while, when the upturn comes it will be great, airlines will be recruiting again but there are so many experienced chaps & chappettes out there without jobs how long before they are hoovered up? My guess is (only my opinion) it will take 18 months or more for them to be sucked up. That could be 3-4 years from now, or even longer.
Also I am not sure I would "trust" any one individual posting on these boards, I am sure handflown is a man of integrity, but one's judgement shouldn't be clouded just because we "love our job". If it were me I would make informed decisions based on a concensus etc etc.
Anyway, good luck with your training people, work hard, stay positive
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As has been said many time of this forum, Don't take the odd positive post as a green light for massive loans. The best thing now is to go modular, take your time and keep an eye on the market. Things really are bad just now and getting worst, you know its bad when there aren't even any instructor jobs! So, save your money and aim to finish in 3 years time, but be ready to extend this if necessary.