Fact or Fiction?

[BSmuppet]

All,

Whilst Pprune was down for a few hours this morning having its 'D' check, I happened upon an interesting post that was written last year on the ask.oxfordaviation website. I have copied and pasted the message (I hope it isn't against any rules).

Anyway, I found it interesting and I have bolded some sentences that I think are interesting and I just wanted a broad view from ppruners as to its weight.:


Why Is PPruNe SO Negative - Suicide Site!

Can someone please tell me why I feel like killing myself when ever I dare (probably stupidly) to go anywhere near that horrible wannabes section in their forum?

Why is it that so many people cannot find jobs? I know that many and indeed most OAA graduates go on to, usually quickly to go on and find employment, BUT WHY NOT THE GUYS AT PPRUNE?

I mean, its not just a few guys having a moans there are simply hundreds of posts, complaining what a misery it is to be a pilot these days. Is it because they did not go on an integrated training course, is it because these guys had poor marks in their JAA exams, is it because these guys are too old, or is it because there are simply so few jobs around?

I have always wanted to fly and I believe I have what it takes to be a cut above the rest and have a very successful career as a pilot, but are things really that bad in the market place for all those other non-OAA trained graduates?

Cheers Guys.


Discuss ppruners.

[colette]

hmmmm

My view would be that the original poster that you copied that from is probably a bit of a muppet

[BSmuppet]

I was just surprised at how arrogant the guy came across. I know we have a bit of banter about OAA cadets but I hope not all of them are like this clown.

[johnnyDB]

I would have to say, most of what is said here (pprune) is true, the reason it seems as if it's 'all' bad news is because we don't hear enough of the guys that did make it, i.e.the success stories.
And although it seems as if there are none at this time, i'm sure there are more than we here about.

[clanger32]

Unfortunately this is the cross OAA have to bear....there are many many 15 year olds who think that ONLY OAA will get you a job (probably on Concord with BA at that) and that anyone else is an absolute idiot.

To be honest, having gone through OAA I honestly don't know where they get this idea...OAA were painfully honest with me from my very first contact ("...at your age, you may well not get a jet job, so you should factor a couple of years on a turboprop on mid £20k salary")

Unfortunately, PPRuNe has just as many idiots who dilute the quality of some otherwise excellent posters.

I would like to stress though, that in my experience of OAA, this poster is an anomoly, not a commonality. I would also like to see the responses....cos normally when a post like that is written, it's shot down in swift order by the OAA administrator, or those who are better informed...

[KSM]

this is not a personal attack
why you dont hear about the guy who have the great airline job??
because he dont have the time to come here and see all this whinge about how unfair the world is
(now iam dead )
Dont take me wrong, its ok to tell that the school you was on you over hard on your money.
But again did you do your best when you had the opportunity to do it?
or was it to many partys?

(trainer hard fight easy) is a great moto


If you didt get a job one that AA then fight hard on to get better to the next job interview, is a hard world out here but you will survive if you
believe it.



Iam not a pilot yet but I fight for what I believe in that help me to get wher iam to day.

Iam sorry if some one will get offended by this post it was not what I want with this post, more a wake up call

Stay safe

[Whirlygig]

There have been a number of posters on this forum (whom I won't name but the "old-timers" will know to whom I refer) who display similar levels of arrogance coupled with starry-eyed naivety. This ppruners do not accept that there is a downside to everything and do not accept that they are not God's gift to aviation, neither do they accept the advice of those who have already been through the system and are working in the industry.

Cheers

Whirls

[BSmuppet]

Xulu,

honestly mate, what the hell are you talking about? Do you write a few words on a piece of paper then type them in with the hope that someone can understand them?

Your last 2 messages makes no sense at all. Perhaps learn to read, write and understand! then come back on and share your 2 cents worth

[JB007]

...at your age, you may well not get a jet job, so you should factor a couple of years on a turboprop on mid £20k salary

Quite right - best advice and experience ever, the best way to kick start your career. CTC and OAA Cadets totally miss out, and probably have a lot more debt and are no-where near as 'rounded' a pilot.

[G SXTY]

Why Is PPRuNe SO Negative - Suicide Site!

There's a very simple answer to that. The wannabes forums exist for people who don't yet have jobs. Everyone from school kids to thirty and forty -somethings planning a career change. From PPL & commercial students to unemployed fATPLs. As soon as they find a job, the vast majority of pilots never set foot in here again.

It's understandable - working pilots are usually out flying aeroplanes - not at home all day in front of their computer or working in an office with internet access. When I do get time to myself, I'm generally catching up with a week's post, or trying to make sense of my roster, or preparing for an LPC, or doing the housework, washing the car, etc etc. And I fly half the hours of some of my colleagues.

And when I do venture into the wannabes forums, it can get a bit boring - the endless repetition of the same questions (am I too old, is integrated better, can I get into BA with a C in maths etc) because people can't be bothered to read the 'stickies'. There's a tendency towards juvenile and naive debate, which probably just reflects the average wannabe's age, but is off-putting nonetheless. (Although, in fairness, discussions between so-called 'professional' pilots are often little better). There's also the confidence - some would say arrogance - that can only come from those who have never flown an airliner, telling others how best to get an airline job (witness all the teenagers giving other teenagers career advice). Some contributors to this thread have already demonstrated those qualities.

Apart from the occasional post when someone finds a job, you don't hear about all the success stories (and there are many). Of the ten or so low-hours pilots on my type-rating course, I am the only one who regularly posts on Pprune - the rest of them have got better things to do with their time. How many Ppruners can you name who are working pilots and regularly contribute to these forums? Not many. WWW moderates with frankly amazing reserves of patience, and often gets flayed for his efforts.

So there you go. Firstly it's a fact of life that once people stop being wannabes, they lose interest in wannabes' issues. And secondly you're often your own worst enemy. I hang around here because I spent many, many years as a wannabe, and I remember what it was like. It was the posts from working professional pilots that helped keep me focused, and those rare inspirational posts that motivated me through some of the darker times.

So wade through the BS, recognise the chaff for what it is, use the 'ignore' function, and you'll find plenty of useful information on here. It's a whole lot better than getting your 'advice' from flying schools.

[JB007]

...working pilots are usually out flying aeroplanes - not at home all day in front of their computer...

[L'aviateur]

It would be interesting to know how many people hold any licenses or are working towards professional licenses, I do get the impression that a percentage of the posters have never even been near an aircraft.

[mad_jock]

Its always been the case L'aviateur well since I started looking at pprune.

Depending at which hoop you are asking questions about, the opinions go from utter bolocks to some sort of sense.

Generally the pre PPL\start of training are full of dreamers who think they know the score, unfortunatly they also think that all of the marketing spin they read on the web and in the flight mags is completley true. You get hundreds of these wannabies on here who get very upset when they either get ignored, shot down in flames or the piss ripped out of them for being gimps.

You will find another smaller group that actually make it through to theory stage. What happens to the dreamers I don't know either a crimminal record or adding to the number of single parent familys in the country makes them realise that it is not possible for them or they fail the class 1. Then bitch like hell because you can't get a JAR license with glasses that could be used in the hubble telescope.

After they have got through the ATPL exams the posters actually knowa bit about what they are talking about because they have been given a very small exposure to what the industry is like.

Then an even smaller group move on to the CPL\IR phase and then it comes down to hunting for jobs which PPrune is OK on the large companys but nobody lets on if there is a couple of FO jobs going in a turboprop outfit.

Unfortunatley the dreamers in the first stage can cost wannbie's who have the potential and the common sense to get to the end of training considerable amounts of money potentially stopping them becoming commercial pilots or costing them thier parents houses. I don't think they do it out of badness but occassionally someone has to set the record straight when the bull****e meter gets into the red.

[gofres]

I was about to send my two pennies worth and then G SXTY beat me too it and hit the nail on the head.

I unfortunately join the ranks of "wanna be"... or even "gonna be" if all works out.

"As soon as they find a job, the vast majority of pilots never set foot in here again."

I intend to use PPRUNE as a bit of a fact finder before departing on the long path to the clouds so while it would be very much appreciated that those in the industry share their knowledge, this section of the site is full of people like me trying to learn something... and plenty of other bitter, twisted, nay saying, name callers. It's not productive but gives another point of view all the same. Just learn to read into who is providing the information and how valid it is in your career path.

"working pilots are usually out flying aeroplanes - not at home all day in front of their computer or working in an office with internet access"

All those sat in front of a PC right now in a dead end job, dreaming of a pilots job, say yeah.... probably the VAST majority on here! (including me!!!) There is plenty of good information out there (and here), and getting out and speaking to pilots who have made it, making contacts possibly the best way to get your foot in the door (in my limited experience) but it should at least give you a more positive light, and some inspiration as to getting airborne.

"the endless repetition of the same questions (am I too old, is integrated better, can I get into BA with a C in maths etc) because people can't be bothered to read the 'stickies'"

- How very true! And my guess is that those people will probably be the ones back here in a number of years moaning about not being able to fly for what ever lame reason, or how some course screwed them for their parents house. I hope not to join those ranks by being a bit better informed in the first place!!!


"Apart from the occasional post when someone finds a job, you don't hear about all the success stories (and there are many)."

- How very true again my friend, but to those that haven't quite got it yet, you won't find many of them on here. So get out and about and stop moaning You get out what you put in at the end of the day.

"So there you go. Firstly it's a fact of life that once people stop being wannabes, they lose interest in wannabes' issues. And secondly you're often your own worst enemy. I hang around here because I spent many, many years as a wannabe, and I remember what it was like. It was the posts from working professional pilots that helped keep me focused, and those rare inspirational posts that motivated me through some of the darker times."

- Again, written like a genius! I too hope to return here someday to pass on a bit of knowledge and help others. Trouble is, there's plenty of people who seem to know best (with no prior knowledge) and no matter what you tell them, they will do their own thing (based more from my experience in other areas than flying). There's no one solution for all, but listen to those that REALLY know and you shouldn't go too far wrong.

"It's a whole lot better than getting your 'advice' from flying schools."

-They are a business... interested primarily in one thing... your money! Sure they claim to care but do you honestly think they'd continue to operate as a "not for profit" organisation. The sceptic in me thinks not.

So good luck to all wishing to someday be a pilot. Those who can, will.