Are most new pilots from integraded courses???
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Are most new pilots from integraded courses???
I have been wondering if most new pilots in europe are from integraded courses from big FTO's???I tried the search but couldnt find really what i was looking for.
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I'm not sure of the exact figures but I was told at the previous flyer show in Dublin that approx 80% of new fatpls' come from the modular route only 20% are intergraded from 'the big 4'.
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Ok so lets assume that 80% of new fatpls are modular and that 20% are integrated. But how many of those 80% of modular and 20% of integrated acctually gain employment with the airlines? It may well be that the majority of the integrated students gain employment whereas about half of modular students gain employment.
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If you think paying a huge amount of extra money for integrated training is worth the very slim additional chance of gaining employment, then go for it. If you don't, don't.
Personally in the current climate I'd liken integrated training to throwing bundles of £20 notes on a bonfire.
Personally in the current climate I'd liken integrated training to throwing bundles of £20 notes on a bonfire.
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Assume................hate that word.
Okay a bit of common sense, I have just got back from Lyon, long day.
I am a ex modular student, I know many ex modular students. Guess what, we all have Jobs with Airlines, flying Boeing and Airbus's. I have met many pilots, but have yet to meet a FO who is intergrated, with the exception of Ryanair. But of course to join Ryanair, you have to pay for a rating.
I am a contact pilot, in Africa in a dammed good job. My employer could not give a damm where I trained, what my pass rates where etc. But you know, he wanted to know if I could fly a plane.
I am not going to get into a discussion regarding Intergrated v Modular, both have merits and has been done to death here. There is no basis for a Assume, you make a ASS out of U and ME also.
You get a job through bloody hard work, ringing people, chasing contacts etc, not because you went to a shiny Intergrated school. Those days have gone.
Whatever you decide, good luck.
Okay a bit of common sense, I have just got back from Lyon, long day.
I am a ex modular student, I know many ex modular students. Guess what, we all have Jobs with Airlines, flying Boeing and Airbus's. I have met many pilots, but have yet to meet a FO who is intergrated, with the exception of Ryanair. But of course to join Ryanair, you have to pay for a rating.
I am a contact pilot, in Africa in a dammed good job. My employer could not give a damm where I trained, what my pass rates where etc. But you know, he wanted to know if I could fly a plane.
I am not going to get into a discussion regarding Intergrated v Modular, both have merits and has been done to death here. There is no basis for a Assume, you make a ASS out of U and ME also.
You get a job through bloody hard work, ringing people, chasing contacts etc, not because you went to a shiny Intergrated school. Those days have gone.
Whatever you decide, good luck.
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"It may well be that the majority of the integrated students gain employment whereas about half of modular students gain employment"
Or it may just be equally as wise (or unwise) to say the majority of the modular students gain employment whereas about half of the integrated students gain employment.
Or maybe the smart money is on no-one is gaining employment in these times. Just a thought....
Or it may just be equally as wise (or unwise) to say the majority of the modular students gain employment whereas about half of the integrated students gain employment.
Or maybe the smart money is on no-one is gaining employment in these times. Just a thought....
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Well lets say the economy has picked up again and the airlines have started to recruite in large quantities again. Surely, integrated students will get preferential treatment, am I right about this?
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afraz,
I'm just an observer in such debate and may have uttered something connected, but your last post seems to me like you want to hear someone else's opinion to 'justify' and support yours. I'd say. If you happen to find someone saying what you hope/wish to be true, it won't become one.
Well,
Pretending two low-houred CPL holders apply for the same job. 'Same' personal qualities. One's from integrated, but finished almost year ago, the other from modular and aced the last ME IR etc exams couple weeks ago. Which one's more likely to get job (both are without type rating)?
Or integrated guy who splashed cash on all 'essential' ratings towards jet job and that hasn't flown for months and other who flies regularly and has all the desired minimum ratings? (willing to sign up for bond for the rest)
Just ideas. I'm not involved. Or, maybe, as I'm also 'in training' though with big gaps, very strange course of things. But I will become fixed wing CPL as well. Maybe not JAA/EASA as I'm already tired of this all even before getting into it with my ankles.. Huh.
I'm just an observer in such debate and may have uttered something connected, but your last post seems to me like you want to hear someone else's opinion to 'justify' and support yours. I'd say. If you happen to find someone saying what you hope/wish to be true, it won't become one.
Well,
Pretending two low-houred CPL holders apply for the same job. 'Same' personal qualities. One's from integrated, but finished almost year ago, the other from modular and aced the last ME IR etc exams couple weeks ago. Which one's more likely to get job (both are without type rating)?
Or integrated guy who splashed cash on all 'essential' ratings towards jet job and that hasn't flown for months and other who flies regularly and has all the desired minimum ratings? (willing to sign up for bond for the rest)
Just ideas. I'm not involved. Or, maybe, as I'm also 'in training' though with big gaps, very strange course of things. But I will become fixed wing CPL as well. Maybe not JAA/EASA as I'm already tired of this all even before getting into it with my ankles.. Huh.
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for christs sake Afraz, how many times are you going to ask the same question? You've had your answers, you've had your advice, so just ignore it all and sign up for OAA, it quite clearly what your going to do anyway.
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Afraz, Yes you are right, you can now go and spend all your parents money on a course with a integrated provider, safe and sound that before you even start to fly your C172/PA28* you will be offered a job with BA/Virgin/Emirates/Cathay/Quatar* on a huge salary and flying the 777/747/787/A340/A380* as you are going to be one of the all time great pilots, just like the rest of your school.
For the rest of us, on planet earth, there really is no real difference these days.
*Delete where applicable
For the rest of us, on planet earth, there really is no real difference these days.
*Delete where applicable
Last edited by ford cortina; 13th Dec 2008 at 08:38.
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Lets say the market does pick up in two years, there are a awful lot of experienced pilots working abroad, like me, who will want to come back to Blighty. So for all those nice new jobs in the UK, you will have to join the back of the queue.
Bet Oxford never mention that
BTW FC Niccccceeeeeee
Bet Oxford never mention that
BTW FC Niccccceeeeeee
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Hey guys, I have just had a brilliant business idea....can't fail....
I am going to start a flight training orginisation, and offer people courses in learning to fly....yip you guessed it, aeroplanes. But wait, I have done my market research and if I name my company after some famous university town I will corner a section of the market of intellectually stunted people who only go for a name.......BRILLIANT!!!....But wait there's more, I will charge them almost 80% more for the course than the other place down the road!!!!!! BRILLIANT.....they will be thowing money at us!!!! I guess we have some connections in the airlines, so we could offer them the chance of an interview though.....Ooooooooh, I just had another idea, we can offer them a type rating and charge them another £20k......
But wait, there's more, once they have finished their course they will only have 190 hours...BRILLIANT, more profit..... AND they won't even be allowed to fly a simple little C172 by themselves to show off their newly aquired license.......
Dear potential share holders, don't you just love the way the locals fall for a name....this time next year we will be millionaires!!!!
I am going to start a flight training orginisation, and offer people courses in learning to fly....yip you guessed it, aeroplanes. But wait, I have done my market research and if I name my company after some famous university town I will corner a section of the market of intellectually stunted people who only go for a name.......BRILLIANT!!!....But wait there's more, I will charge them almost 80% more for the course than the other place down the road!!!!!! BRILLIANT.....they will be thowing money at us!!!! I guess we have some connections in the airlines, so we could offer them the chance of an interview though.....Ooooooooh, I just had another idea, we can offer them a type rating and charge them another £20k......
But wait, there's more, once they have finished their course they will only have 190 hours...BRILLIANT, more profit..... AND they won't even be allowed to fly a simple little C172 by themselves to show off their newly aquired license.......
Dear potential share holders, don't you just love the way the locals fall for a name....this time next year we will be millionaires!!!!
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Are you right about this?? Well after I qualified (modular) I got an airline job within 6 months, two friends form integrated waited upto two years for a job!
Im not saying that is typical, but then again it might just be, no one can say. There are more factors involved, eg. timing, demand for pilots, luck (oh yes, the main factor), personality to an extent, etc etc...
For every employed pilot out there, there will be a unique story behind his/her job success, there is (in my opinion) no typical "way" of getting a job. As Ive said many times before, if it was me trying to choose now Afraz, I would get my licence as cost effectively as poss, worry about the job later. I would not even be considering integrated for years at the very least. But as said above if you want to go integrated, do it. But I think you'll be in for a harsh reallity check when it comes to do your renewals........
Im not saying that is typical, but then again it might just be, no one can say. There are more factors involved, eg. timing, demand for pilots, luck (oh yes, the main factor), personality to an extent, etc etc...
For every employed pilot out there, there will be a unique story behind his/her job success, there is (in my opinion) no typical "way" of getting a job. As Ive said many times before, if it was me trying to choose now Afraz, I would get my licence as cost effectively as poss, worry about the job later. I would not even be considering integrated for years at the very least. But as said above if you want to go integrated, do it. But I think you'll be in for a harsh reallity check when it comes to do your renewals........
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the only way I 'personally' would consider integrated, would be, if I had been promissed a job at the end before I had started the course.
So as the finish ASAP, not have to keep anything current at own expence and could pay off the bank imediately. Anything other than this -> modular
So as the finish ASAP, not have to keep anything current at own expence and could pay off the bank imediately. Anything other than this -> modular
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Bluelearjetdriver...
Go for it - I'm sure Afraz will sign up straight away - he seems to listen to all the s**t that's spouted by FTO's, and disregards common sense advice.
Could be your first 70k in the bank!
(Just don't forget to make a vague promise about having some sort of connection to the airlines as well!)
Could be your first 70k in the bank!
(Just don't forget to make a vague promise about having some sort of connection to the airlines as well!)
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Here we go again. 
Once and for all, it doesn't really matter. Integrated or modular, you will be hired on the basis of your abilities as a pilot and qualities as a man, or woman if that way inclined.
If you have to money and time to go integrated, do so. If not, go modular. Either way you will be unemployed when you qualify until the market picks up again.
Once and for all, it doesn't really matter. Integrated or modular, you will be hired on the basis of your abilities as a pilot and qualities as a man, or woman if that way inclined.
If you have to money and time to go integrated, do so. If not, go modular. Either way you will be unemployed when you qualify until the market picks up again.
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Well, well, well. What a lovely bunch of informed and well educated responses this thread has elicited. As normal.
I find it absolutely astounding how in virtually every single one of these threads, theres at least one moron who implies all integrated students are stupid, believe 'the hype' and are busy spending mummy and daddys money. Yet, ironically in so doing fail to realise how very stupid they make themselves look.
I love the way that it always ends up assuming the very worst scenario out of integrated and assess the best possible scenario out of modular. I love the way that former mod students try and and convince themselves/others/the world at large that the cost differential is one hundred billion pounds.
However, that said there is actually some good advice here for guys like Afraz. Right now, in this particular market, modular is probably a better option - purely because you can time when you exit training a bit better. Unfortunately, people like Afraz are those that are held up by the aformentioned twats who like to lump all int. students together.
Two last points. First....there is as much truth in this lumping together of int. students that most of the contributors to this thread seem to believe as there is to say all mod students are too stupid to get onto an int course and are just jealous. Consider that next time you want to make a twatty comment about all int students being the same.
Second....the ongoing comments about Ryanair....how about some food for thought....If Ryanair are hiring integrated students when they historically didn't (which they are now - and taking a larger and larger %age if you listen to the FYR recruitment team), then they're not hiring modular for those positions....given how much reliance the mod community have placed on FYR in the past, things just got even harder. But that's ok, because you can all go away with your absolutely cast iron assertion (because you're so much more intelligent than those stupid integrated idiots) that you've paid £2000000k less for the same licence and that you'll have exactly the same chance. Or will you.
I wish all students, of whatever training method the best of luck, because whatever route you choose, it's not easy and it's certainly not cheap either way. And you'll all certainly need it, if the comments on this thread by certain posters are what you can look forward to.
I find it absolutely astounding how in virtually every single one of these threads, theres at least one moron who implies all integrated students are stupid, believe 'the hype' and are busy spending mummy and daddys money. Yet, ironically in so doing fail to realise how very stupid they make themselves look.
I love the way that it always ends up assuming the very worst scenario out of integrated and assess the best possible scenario out of modular. I love the way that former mod students try and and convince themselves/others/the world at large that the cost differential is one hundred billion pounds.
However, that said there is actually some good advice here for guys like Afraz. Right now, in this particular market, modular is probably a better option - purely because you can time when you exit training a bit better. Unfortunately, people like Afraz are those that are held up by the aformentioned twats who like to lump all int. students together.
Two last points. First....there is as much truth in this lumping together of int. students that most of the contributors to this thread seem to believe as there is to say all mod students are too stupid to get onto an int course and are just jealous. Consider that next time you want to make a twatty comment about all int students being the same.
Second....the ongoing comments about Ryanair....how about some food for thought....If Ryanair are hiring integrated students when they historically didn't (which they are now - and taking a larger and larger %age if you listen to the FYR recruitment team), then they're not hiring modular for those positions....given how much reliance the mod community have placed on FYR in the past, things just got even harder. But that's ok, because you can all go away with your absolutely cast iron assertion (because you're so much more intelligent than those stupid integrated idiots) that you've paid £2000000k less for the same licence and that you'll have exactly the same chance. Or will you.
I wish all students, of whatever training method the best of luck, because whatever route you choose, it's not easy and it's certainly not cheap either way. And you'll all certainly need it, if the comments on this thread by certain posters are what you can look forward to.
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I have been wondering if most new pilots in europe are from integraded courses from big FTO's?
This regurgitated thread always goes the same way; everybody quotes anecdotal evidence; "in my airline most people are from xxx background" (which always corresponds to their own choice of training route) and then gives that to be the definitive answer.
And then someone inevitably says "save money, go modular!"
Someone else uses the words "rich daddy" and "Cathay Pacific" and it all goes downhill from there!
Pprune, dontcha just love it?