Flight Academy Blackpool
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Flight Academy Blackpool
Hi
I have been looking for some hour building aroung the North West and rang Flight Academy at Blackpool.
They claim to be the cheapest, busiest, newest training facility, hmmmm!!!
I did some costings and this is what I have come up with
6 month upfront joining fee @ £110 pcm = £660
12 hours flying over 24 month (min) @ £70ph = £840
monthly Standing order of £110 x 24 = £2640
12 landings over 24 months@ £15per Landing = £180
This making a grande total of £4320 if I divide this by 12 my hourly charge is £360 per hour, I think not !!! nice try
I rang Westair at Blackpool and for 12 hours in their PA28 it came out at £1752, a discount was offered for the payment (on account).
Needless to say a saving of £2568 and no upfront deposits or standing orders!
Does any one know where I may get a PA28 or similar around the North West for a deal??
Pm me
I have been looking for some hour building aroung the North West and rang Flight Academy at Blackpool.
They claim to be the cheapest, busiest, newest training facility, hmmmm!!!
I did some costings and this is what I have come up with
6 month upfront joining fee @ £110 pcm = £660
12 hours flying over 24 month (min) @ £70ph = £840
monthly Standing order of £110 x 24 = £2640
12 landings over 24 months@ £15per Landing = £180
This making a grande total of £4320 if I divide this by 12 my hourly charge is £360 per hour, I think not !!! nice try
I rang Westair at Blackpool and for 12 hours in their PA28 it came out at £1752, a discount was offered for the payment (on account).
Needless to say a saving of £2568 and no upfront deposits or standing orders!
Does any one know where I may get a PA28 or similar around the North West for a deal??
Pm me
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Pony2, it has been said before and will be said again. Be very careful before you start throwing quite offensive accusations about. This is a very small industry and reputations good and bad travel far.
As for your 'costings', well youre either not very good with numbers or missed the point of the AGL scheme. I suspect both.
Firstly, the £660 up front is a deposit. You get it back. So take that out.
Secondly, you quite bizzarely included landing fees in one calculation and not the other. Take that out.
Last of all, if you only want to fly 12 hours every 24 months, why the hell did you bother getting your PPL? (assuming you have one)
This scheme was set up to cater to those who are either hour buliding towards their CPL or have a PPL and want to fly on a regular basis (not 0.5 hours per month like yourself). If you do the maths based on what the scheme was designed for, you will find an hourly rate which the US will find hard to compete with.
Costing example for someone flying 60 hours a year (a proper one):
12 months subscription at £110 per month: £1320
60 flying hours at £70 ph: £4200
Total: £5520.
Divide by 60 gives you £92 ph. Wet. For a new Archer III with dual G430. Or brand new G1000 C172.
Thats only for 5 hours per month. The more you fly, the cheaper it gets.
FAB and AGL are run by a very efficient and friendly bunch of people. The group members all have their heads screwed on. You probably wouldn't have fitted in anyway.
Ps: I am not employed by FAB or AGL. I am not even a member. Just sticking up for a good product.
EK
As for your 'costings', well youre either not very good with numbers or missed the point of the AGL scheme. I suspect both.
Firstly, the £660 up front is a deposit. You get it back. So take that out.
Secondly, you quite bizzarely included landing fees in one calculation and not the other. Take that out.
Last of all, if you only want to fly 12 hours every 24 months, why the hell did you bother getting your PPL? (assuming you have one)
This scheme was set up to cater to those who are either hour buliding towards their CPL or have a PPL and want to fly on a regular basis (not 0.5 hours per month like yourself). If you do the maths based on what the scheme was designed for, you will find an hourly rate which the US will find hard to compete with.
Costing example for someone flying 60 hours a year (a proper one):
12 months subscription at £110 per month: £1320
60 flying hours at £70 ph: £4200
Total: £5520.
Divide by 60 gives you £92 ph. Wet. For a new Archer III with dual G430. Or brand new G1000 C172.
Thats only for 5 hours per month. The more you fly, the cheaper it gets.
FAB and AGL are run by a very efficient and friendly bunch of people. The group members all have their heads screwed on. You probably wouldn't have fitted in anyway.
Ps: I am not employed by FAB or AGL. I am not even a member. Just sticking up for a good product.
EK
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I have been looking for some hour building aroung the North West
I'm a group member and i fly a few times a week. From my point of view its cheap with good availability and a friendly atmosphere. Everything I want out of a flying school.
What a pointless thread
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Is your deposit held in a separate trust account or will it be lost if the school goes t*ts up? If its not in a trust account why not? What is the deposit for anyway? I could understand keeping a bit of cash on account to stay in the black but what purpose does a deposit serve towards hour building? There are far to many schools using advance monies and deposits to pay the day to day running costs. Hence when the cash stops coming in the door things go pear shaped pretty quick.
I would say counting on "losing" your deposit is probably a wise move.
I would say counting on "losing" your deposit is probably a wise move.
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Phil' : thanks.
PKB... "What is the deposit for anyway?" probably in case you bend the aircraft or rack up a load of landing fees, sounds reasonable to me.
PKB... "What is the deposit for anyway?" probably in case you bend the aircraft or rack up a load of landing fees, sounds reasonable to me.
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Flight Academy Blackpool(Scam)
Hi
The workings I had done above were the min required by the CAA for Licence validity.
I have spoke with Flight Academy Blackpool again and they say you need to fly at least every 6 weeks in order not to have to undertake a check ride, so I have reworked the above assuming 50 hours in 12 months.
Deposit 6 months £660
50 hours @ £70 = £3500
50 landings @ £15 = £750
12 months Standing Order = £1220
Totals £6130 or £123 per hour
Westair are offering their Warrior at £146 per hour including landing Fee
So £7300 but they are offering a discount of 10% so £6570, so £440 more, but no deposit of £660 and no standing order of £110 pcm and no time limit, with Flight Academy every month you go over another £110 needs finding !!!
The workings I had done above were the min required by the CAA for Licence validity.
I have spoke with Flight Academy Blackpool again and they say you need to fly at least every 6 weeks in order not to have to undertake a check ride, so I have reworked the above assuming 50 hours in 12 months.
Deposit 6 months £660
50 hours @ £70 = £3500
50 landings @ £15 = £750
12 months Standing Order = £1220
Totals £6130 or £123 per hour
Westair are offering their Warrior at £146 per hour including landing Fee
So £7300 but they are offering a discount of 10% so £6570, so £440 more, but no deposit of £660 and no standing order of £110 pcm and no time limit, with Flight Academy every month you go over another £110 needs finding !!!
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At the end of the day its each to their own, if your going to do the hours FAB/AGL is cheap. If your only planning on doing enough to stay current then its not.
What I will say though is that as a member of the 4 seat group at AGL you have access to 2 Archers with twin GNS430 (a step up on a warrior) and 2 172' one of which is a G1000. All the aircraft are in excellent condition and you have (as an AGL member) access to the discounted rates at FAB which are VERY competitive.
Geez, its starting to sound like a sales pitch now......
To close, it suits me and many others very well but everyone is different and have differing requirements/needs. Its not a scam as previously stated, it just doesn't suit you.
Phil
P.S. To rent the PA28 direct without being a group member is 125+14.76 landing fee which is 139.76. No monthlys.
What I will say though is that as a member of the 4 seat group at AGL you have access to 2 Archers with twin GNS430 (a step up on a warrior) and 2 172' one of which is a G1000. All the aircraft are in excellent condition and you have (as an AGL member) access to the discounted rates at FAB which are VERY competitive.
Geez, its starting to sound like a sales pitch now......
To close, it suits me and many others very well but everyone is different and have differing requirements/needs. Its not a scam as previously stated, it just doesn't suit you.
Phil
P.S. To rent the PA28 direct without being a group member is 125+14.76 landing fee which is 139.76. No monthlys.
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I built some 98 hours with AGL on the C172R when it was at Barton, I even flew it as far as Spain (mmm.. VAT free fuel!)
I paid £110 a month for 6 months, but with a deposit of the same that I got back - in full. I then paid £60 an hour wet.
I did a few circuits, but mainly land aways. Don't factor in landing fees because you have to pay those whatever you fly, Westair, FAB, AGL or rent from Santa.
£60 x 98 = £5880 wet
+ £660 maintenance
-----
£6540.
If I rented with someone else, even at £110 an hour wet (which is very reasonable and probably too cheap for a new C172) i'd be looking at £10780. I make that a saving of (drum roll).....
£4240
Horgy
I paid £110 a month for 6 months, but with a deposit of the same that I got back - in full. I then paid £60 an hour wet.
I did a few circuits, but mainly land aways. Don't factor in landing fees because you have to pay those whatever you fly, Westair, FAB, AGL or rent from Santa.
£60 x 98 = £5880 wet
+ £660 maintenance
-----
£6540.
If I rented with someone else, even at £110 an hour wet (which is very reasonable and probably too cheap for a new C172) i'd be looking at £10780. I make that a saving of (drum roll).....
£4240
Horgy
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I too have built over a hundred hours with agl and have been a member since day one . It is a fanstastic group with state of the art aircraft and facilities . If there is a scam there, its bloody well hidden. All i can say to the ill informed troll that started this post is get your facts staright before you post crap like yours , and take a copy of it with you if ever you do try and join agl . I for one would rather the group didnt have a member like you .
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hey
your getting a right name for your self so grow up and enjoy your flying i am a meaber at AGL and i love it its great and the planes are new as you get in the uk for that money so stop bi*ching and start flying maybe you will make a pilot that way from charlie
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On Going fairy Tale
I have been asking when Flight Academy are suppose to get their approvals, IR, CPL, FIC the owner keeps saying next week !!!! he has been saying this since September 2007.
Bumped into a poor guy who had prepaid £6000 in cash for the CPL, 12 months ago +, he said he kept ringing to speak to the owner who was always in meetings !!
Not got his money back and not done the training.
Maybe something else is going on or worse going down
Bumped into a poor guy who had prepaid £6000 in cash for the CPL, 12 months ago +, he said he kept ringing to speak to the owner who was always in meetings !!
Not got his money back and not done the training.
Maybe something else is going on or worse going down
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There is obviously some mis-information going on here. The only school at Blackpool who cannot issue the training they claim to be able to administer is flybpl.com owned by an individual who cannot resist advertising himself very verbally and also on his website for things he is not licensed to do.
Examples:-
2 week PPL:- Great if you have a lease with the airport which enables you to do training but he does not. His lease is for an air taxi operation for which he does not have an AOC!
Charter:- On the subject of charter, it seems like this individual continues to flout the law as regards illegal public transport. Obviously he is always a paying participant in these flights, just like the one he did yesterday in G-EEJE. By the way this charter operation claims it can service 2-200 people. How many can you fit in a PA28?? How many elephants can you fit in a mini!
4 Day IMC:- Nice thought if the instructor (RM) had an IMC rating in order that he could teach it himself. Last intelligence on that subject was that he hasn't got one because of the fact that NONE of the examiners based at Blackpool would do his test for him. Burn't some bridges!!!
Banner Towing:- Can't be completed by someone who doesn't own an aircraft capable of banner towing, the only other banner towing operation on the airport are well aware of his claims which may be referring to their operation but certainly cannot be provided by him.
Helicopter training:- Show us your helicopter! LOL
Commercial and multi training:- No F.T.O. talk about pot calling kettle sooty A**se! At least FAB do have their FTO status but flybpl definitely does not!!! How can RM be so hypoctricical as to spread such falsehoods about others whilst blatently advertising to be an FTO when he clearly IS NOT!
Most of the aircraft advertised on his website are owned by people who no longer want anything to do with him. Furthermore the claims made verbally by him of his associations with various companies and individuals all exist only in the mind of the man himself. Most of the people he has upset on the airport have also been grassed by him to the CAA. Unsuccesfully!
It seems RM that you should stop making false accusations and claims of your status, and begin trading fairly although your reputation in the industry obviously proves you are not capable of this.
Flight Academy, Aircraft Grouping and the like are all honest respectable companies who operate within the law and within the constraints of good business practice. This is why they had to get rid of the above named individual because his reputation prohibited their growth.
He is a banned company director and has proven many times in the past that he is a failure. Sour grapes now prevail and he insists on generating threads like this under strange and varied user names. Jealousy is not an attractive trait RM.
The word defacto CFI springs humorously to mind when talking about this individual and the misery he has caused with his false claims and dillusions of grandure.
FAB, AGL and SMS continue to trade reputably despite these ridiculous lies generated by one very bitter and jealous individual. Rob by name, Rob by nature!
Examples:-
2 week PPL:- Great if you have a lease with the airport which enables you to do training but he does not. His lease is for an air taxi operation for which he does not have an AOC!
Charter:- On the subject of charter, it seems like this individual continues to flout the law as regards illegal public transport. Obviously he is always a paying participant in these flights, just like the one he did yesterday in G-EEJE. By the way this charter operation claims it can service 2-200 people. How many can you fit in a PA28?? How many elephants can you fit in a mini!
4 Day IMC:- Nice thought if the instructor (RM) had an IMC rating in order that he could teach it himself. Last intelligence on that subject was that he hasn't got one because of the fact that NONE of the examiners based at Blackpool would do his test for him. Burn't some bridges!!!
Banner Towing:- Can't be completed by someone who doesn't own an aircraft capable of banner towing, the only other banner towing operation on the airport are well aware of his claims which may be referring to their operation but certainly cannot be provided by him.
Helicopter training:- Show us your helicopter! LOL
Commercial and multi training:- No F.T.O. talk about pot calling kettle sooty A**se! At least FAB do have their FTO status but flybpl definitely does not!!! How can RM be so hypoctricical as to spread such falsehoods about others whilst blatently advertising to be an FTO when he clearly IS NOT!
Most of the aircraft advertised on his website are owned by people who no longer want anything to do with him. Furthermore the claims made verbally by him of his associations with various companies and individuals all exist only in the mind of the man himself. Most of the people he has upset on the airport have also been grassed by him to the CAA. Unsuccesfully!
It seems RM that you should stop making false accusations and claims of your status, and begin trading fairly although your reputation in the industry obviously proves you are not capable of this.
Flight Academy, Aircraft Grouping and the like are all honest respectable companies who operate within the law and within the constraints of good business practice. This is why they had to get rid of the above named individual because his reputation prohibited their growth.
He is a banned company director and has proven many times in the past that he is a failure. Sour grapes now prevail and he insists on generating threads like this under strange and varied user names. Jealousy is not an attractive trait RM.
The word defacto CFI springs humorously to mind when talking about this individual and the misery he has caused with his false claims and dillusions of grandure.
FAB, AGL and SMS continue to trade reputably despite these ridiculous lies generated by one very bitter and jealous individual. Rob by name, Rob by nature!
Last edited by Thunderbirdone; 31st Jan 2009 at 11:47.
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pony2,
It's clear that your bizarre campaign against AGL is not working! I too am a member, I am using the PA28's for hour building. The planes are very new compared to most training a/c in the UK, and kept in tip top order, the rates are very reasonable too. There is no scam. I used to hire an old tatty PA28 from another flying school in the Northwest, it cost me £126 per hour plus landings, it was so old it didn't have footbrakes and the trim wheel was on the roof!
You should really get your facts clear before making such claims. It seems since other posters have made things a little easier for you to understand, you have changed tactics and brought in a 3rd person to attack their CPL/IR training. They may well not be setup for CPL/IR yet, if that's the case then I find it hard to believe that anyone with any sense would hand over £6000 for a course that doesn't exist!
Grow up
It's clear that your bizarre campaign against AGL is not working! I too am a member, I am using the PA28's for hour building. The planes are very new compared to most training a/c in the UK, and kept in tip top order, the rates are very reasonable too. There is no scam. I used to hire an old tatty PA28 from another flying school in the Northwest, it cost me £126 per hour plus landings, it was so old it didn't have footbrakes and the trim wheel was on the roof!
You should really get your facts clear before making such claims. It seems since other posters have made things a little easier for you to understand, you have changed tactics and brought in a 3rd person to attack their CPL/IR training. They may well not be setup for CPL/IR yet, if that's the case then I find it hard to believe that anyone with any sense would hand over £6000 for a course that doesn't exist!
Grow up
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I too am a member and have been for a couple of very happy years.
The system works well, and if you can get a group together then there is scope for placing an aircraft where needed.
Many people have been in the AGL group who are now flying professionally.
If the usage is low for you 12 hrs in 2 years, then its not economic for you and is by no means a scam.
We need more schools with the ability to offer lower rate flying like we have here, and less idiots posting such rubbish on here.
The system works well, and if you can get a group together then there is scope for placing an aircraft where needed.
Many people have been in the AGL group who are now flying professionally.
If the usage is low for you 12 hrs in 2 years, then its not economic for you and is by no means a scam.
We need more schools with the ability to offer lower rate flying like we have here, and less idiots posting such rubbish on here.
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Interesting . I have been a member of AGL for almost as long as it has existed . So far it has done everything it has set out to do and nothing it claims will happen , hasnt .
There does seem to be one chap who keeps changing his screenie who has it in for FAB . All I can say is , count the number of aircraft , students , group members and other satisfied customers you have coming through your door , and then compare it to that of FAB/AGL . In fact where are your premises ???
FAB does have approval for CPL and the gentleman in question who allegedly paid his 6 grand , did so for hour building and not a CPL , during the course of this hour building he built up a 2 grand bill for unpaid fuel and landing fees which he now owes FAB .
Facts should be straight before putting fingers to keyboards .
Remember "Rather to remain silent and be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt"
There does seem to be one chap who keeps changing his screenie who has it in for FAB . All I can say is , count the number of aircraft , students , group members and other satisfied customers you have coming through your door , and then compare it to that of FAB/AGL . In fact where are your premises ???
FAB does have approval for CPL and the gentleman in question who allegedly paid his 6 grand , did so for hour building and not a CPL , during the course of this hour building he built up a 2 grand bill for unpaid fuel and landing fees which he now owes FAB .
Facts should be straight before putting fingers to keyboards .
Remember "Rather to remain silent and be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt"
