Raising Funds for Training - Credit Crunch
Join Date: Apr 2001
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WWW
you have got to be joking, lower prices at a time of higher fuel costs and an ever increasing tax burden, you can imagine an upward trend not down.
OAA have nearly full courses for 2008 with Netjets, Flybe, EPST to name a few customers.
Rumours that BA may enter the fray as well.
And there appears to be an endless supply of persons, prepared to pay the current prices.
FTE also have regular clients who will help fill their courses, the same applies to Cabair.
FTE are Euro driven and with the value of the € going up costs to the humble £ will rise.
USA with poor economic outlook, and a sinking dollar may lower the costs there, but the disadvantage, is the quality control, and the new requirement for instructors to hold the licence that they are required to teach.
How many FAA rated pilots will convert to a JAA approved licence at their expense ?
Watch for increasing prices over the next 12 to 18 months followed by a possible freeze as prices get too high.
The CAA put their prices up each year, maybe we should campaign for them to justify their charges, which are already far to high.
you have got to be joking, lower prices at a time of higher fuel costs and an ever increasing tax burden, you can imagine an upward trend not down.
OAA have nearly full courses for 2008 with Netjets, Flybe, EPST to name a few customers.
Rumours that BA may enter the fray as well.
And there appears to be an endless supply of persons, prepared to pay the current prices.
FTE also have regular clients who will help fill their courses, the same applies to Cabair.
FTE are Euro driven and with the value of the € going up costs to the humble £ will rise.
USA with poor economic outlook, and a sinking dollar may lower the costs there, but the disadvantage, is the quality control, and the new requirement for instructors to hold the licence that they are required to teach.
How many FAA rated pilots will convert to a JAA approved licence at their expense ?
Watch for increasing prices over the next 12 to 18 months followed by a possible freeze as prices get too high.
The CAA put their prices up each year, maybe we should campaign for them to justify their charges, which are already far to high.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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That was sooooooo last year !
WWW
you have got to be joking, lower prices at a time of higher fuel costs and an ever increasing tax burden, you can imagine an upward trend not down.
OAA have nearly full courses for 2008 with Netjets, Flybe, EPST to name a few customers.
Rumours that BA may enter the fray as well.
you have got to be joking, lower prices at a time of higher fuel costs and an ever increasing tax burden, you can imagine an upward trend not down.
OAA have nearly full courses for 2008 with Netjets, Flybe, EPST to name a few customers.
Rumours that BA may enter the fray as well.
A change in management, one particular course taking longer to line train "than usual", an increase in fuel cost passed to the Airline, all these things could mean that these courses or schemes just grind to a halt and get pulled - dont forget the great publicity has already been had.
Simulators have been running 5 x 4hr sessions daily for 18 months, trust me it IS slowing down.
Training prices will come down, I was instructing prior to and around 9/11 and I remember my old MD having a vision for our FTO and it was to make £1 and only £1 that year. FTO's are the classic case for being able to go backwards financially at great speed, just when you think it cant get any worse - somebody taxies down a pot hole and has a prop strike.
Cash is king in flight training, stationary airplanes still cost money
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Join Date: Jun 2001
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OAT and CTC Loans Schemes
Is WWW right again? I note that the wording on the OAT and CTC Wings websites have changed; OAT now talks of a secured HSBC loan:
"For UK resident cadets, OAA offers a bespoke HSBC loan programme for all APP FO students. The OAA/NetJets Europe cadets will qualify for a secured loan of up to £60,000, subject to meeting the HSBC standard eligibility requirements."
and CTC are even more vague, where they used to make much of the unsecured lending available though HSBC:
"..you will be required to raise a security bond. There are many ways of raising this bond and your chosen method will be dependent on your own personal financial position. If you have the available funds, you may choose to finance the bond personally. Alternatively, you may wish to obtain loan financing, as many of our applicants do, from one of the major high street banks. As you go through the selection process, CTC will be able to provide further details."
So, have HSBC pulled the rug on these schemes? Is there anyone going through selection at the moment who can provide up to date info?
"For UK resident cadets, OAA offers a bespoke HSBC loan programme for all APP FO students. The OAA/NetJets Europe cadets will qualify for a secured loan of up to £60,000, subject to meeting the HSBC standard eligibility requirements."
and CTC are even more vague, where they used to make much of the unsecured lending available though HSBC:
"..you will be required to raise a security bond. There are many ways of raising this bond and your chosen method will be dependent on your own personal financial position. If you have the available funds, you may choose to finance the bond personally. Alternatively, you may wish to obtain loan financing, as many of our applicants do, from one of the major high street banks. As you go through the selection process, CTC will be able to provide further details."
So, have HSBC pulled the rug on these schemes? Is there anyone going through selection at the moment who can provide up to date info?
please check again. HSBC will lend £50k max secured for the OAA training course and a similar amount for the CTC course (secured). 
The wave of personal bankruptcies by cadets/integrated chaps unable to find work in the great airline recession of 2008/9 will result in the total inability of anyone to borrow money to spend on flying training. Use as a guide the current domestic mortgage market.
What this impact will have on the various schemes I don't actually know as every time I try to think it through my head starts to hurt.
In the end, as with house price inflation, if you remove the silly lax lending then prices will drop for training courses. Airlines will have to pay more or go back to sponsoring cadet courses. Times will return to the happy situation of before we elected a socialist government wherein airlines places adverts, ran selection days, picked trainee pilots and then sorted out their training for them before bonding them into the company.
All that lax lending and mortgage equity withdrawal from high house price inflation has done is let sharp minds like Michael O Leary realise that, actually, these idiots are quite happy to borrow the money to train themselves and then work for nothing for a while afterwards. Excellent!
Take away the lending and the MEW'ing and only millionaires children or lottery winners could afford to pay £90k to work for free.
The real world is about to replace the fantasy world that this country has inhabited for the last decade.
It will not be so sunny a place.
WWW
What this impact will have on the various schemes I don't actually know as every time I try to think it through my head starts to hurt.
In the end, as with house price inflation, if you remove the silly lax lending then prices will drop for training courses. Airlines will have to pay more or go back to sponsoring cadet courses. Times will return to the happy situation of before we elected a socialist government wherein airlines places adverts, ran selection days, picked trainee pilots and then sorted out their training for them before bonding them into the company.
All that lax lending and mortgage equity withdrawal from high house price inflation has done is let sharp minds like Michael O Leary realise that, actually, these idiots are quite happy to borrow the money to train themselves and then work for nothing for a while afterwards. Excellent!
Take away the lending and the MEW'ing and only millionaires children or lottery winners could afford to pay £90k to work for free.
The real world is about to replace the fantasy world that this country has inhabited for the last decade.
It will not be so sunny a place.
WWW
Join Date: Feb 2005
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I cannot comment on CTC/HSBC but as for OAT, HSBC will lend £25,000 unsecured (providing you have solid work experience and can provide a good contingency plan). They will loan £50,000 to a self sponsored integrated student and £60,000 to a cadet. Both of the larger amounts are secured on either a UK property or cash deposit.
The repayments depend on the particular scheme. I am a NetJets Cadet and I will be paying my loan off over 6 years. The repayments will be around £1100 per month but NetJets pay 20,000Euros of your salary as a tax free reimbursement of training costs. This is around £1250 per month and leaves the remaining salary + expenses to live on. Self sponsored students who borrow the £50k are expected to pay it back over 11 years and this brings the payments down to around £650/month.
I am personally in a position that even when paying back such a significant loan, I will still have more money than I have had before and will be doing the job I have always wanted to do.
I have around 10 friends who have gone through the training system over the last few years. They did a mixture of modular and integrated at various FTO's, some sponsored, some self-sponsored. There is no question that the integrated guys found their first job quicker than the modular guys but either way, they are all employed and enjoying it.
Rich.
The repayments depend on the particular scheme. I am a NetJets Cadet and I will be paying my loan off over 6 years. The repayments will be around £1100 per month but NetJets pay 20,000Euros of your salary as a tax free reimbursement of training costs. This is around £1250 per month and leaves the remaining salary + expenses to live on. Self sponsored students who borrow the £50k are expected to pay it back over 11 years and this brings the payments down to around £650/month.
I am personally in a position that even when paying back such a significant loan, I will still have more money than I have had before and will be doing the job I have always wanted to do.
I have around 10 friends who have gone through the training system over the last few years. They did a mixture of modular and integrated at various FTO's, some sponsored, some self-sponsored. There is no question that the integrated guys found their first job quicker than the modular guys but either way, they are all employed and enjoying it.
Rich.
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Modular is no bar to work
Did the Groundschool at BCFT finisished Sept 2006 in a class of five, all modular guys. All found work pretty well straight away after finishing their MCC's.
One works for SkyEurope, one for Virgin Nigeria, one is now in Ryanair and the other guy not sure but has been instructing over in the US.
One works for SkyEurope, one for Virgin Nigeria, one is now in Ryanair and the other guy not sure but has been instructing over in the US.
