Aviation Technology With Pilot Studies
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University? or not? : Aviation Technology With Pilot Studies
I'm currently a 3rd year student at Leeds Uni, studying aviation technology with pilot studies.
A note to all wannabes on the discussion of uni or not? I say go to uni, the course i'm doing is great. I now know about 50 soon to be pilots and have nearly gained my ppl (Cleveland flying school, great instructors!!!!) as part of my course! I've learnt so much that has really prepared me for an airline career. I got a bursary from the uni, it was £1,500 towards my ppl. I also covered a lot of the atpl syllabus in further depth than needed, not to mention learing how to start an airline. One thing i really enjoyed was designing an aircraft and flying it on a simulator! I learnt alot of engineering and management. One thing this course does test, is to see if an aviation career is for you, one of my friends on my course has now decided he would rather be a long jumper! Also there are a few students learning to fly an A380
(Dissertation)!!!
To now gain a bursary at leeds you need AAA
in your A-levels, so school is important. I did geography, physics and design, and found these a great help on the course. I hated maths and that's why i didn't study it at A-level. I got to leeds and was taught maths to a very high standard, so i didn't miss out.
You don't need to do an aviation related degree, but if flyings your passion then why wouldn't you? Hopefully when i return from going round the world building hours, i'll know plently of pilots flying for airlines. Which can help when trying to get a job
. GO to UNI!
A note to all wannabes on the discussion of uni or not? I say go to uni, the course i'm doing is great. I now know about 50 soon to be pilots and have nearly gained my ppl (Cleveland flying school, great instructors!!!!) as part of my course! I've learnt so much that has really prepared me for an airline career. I got a bursary from the uni, it was £1,500 towards my ppl. I also covered a lot of the atpl syllabus in further depth than needed, not to mention learing how to start an airline. One thing i really enjoyed was designing an aircraft and flying it on a simulator! I learnt alot of engineering and management. One thing this course does test, is to see if an aviation career is for you, one of my friends on my course has now decided he would rather be a long jumper! Also there are a few students learning to fly an A380
(Dissertation)!!! To now gain a bursary at leeds you need AAA
in your A-levels, so school is important. I did geography, physics and design, and found these a great help on the course. I hated maths and that's why i didn't study it at A-level. I got to leeds and was taught maths to a very high standard, so i didn't miss out.You don't need to do an aviation related degree, but if flyings your passion then why wouldn't you? Hopefully when i return from going round the world building hours, i'll know plently of pilots flying for airlines. Which can help when trying to get a job
. GO to UNI!
Last edited by MarkyT; 17th Nov 2007 at 19:29.
Is English your first language?
If so, a damning indictment of the current rigour of the public education system.
WWW
If so, a damning indictment of the current rigour of the public education system.
WWW
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They must have bucked their ideas up from before then, I was in the first year of that course and although I only was there for 6 months it was bloody awful. Supply and demand, at that time i got in with CDD!
Horgy
Horgy
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When I was there, they never gave us the idea of advertising on pprune for them.
Good idea anyway!
Overall, the course does give students a good understanding and knowledge. It can provide a stepping stone towards the career so, I would add to the advert and recommend the course.
Good idea anyway!
Overall, the course does give students a good understanding and knowledge. It can provide a stepping stone towards the career so, I would add to the advert and recommend the course.
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Leeds aviation degree advert
Just found this and yes it is was? a great course if you want to do a uni degree with aviation. but some of the lecturers are rubbish, do not have a clue, made up by fact that flying training at cleveland flying is brilliant and the only one that knows anything about flying is doc ed but just heard he is not going to teach us any more
so in my view this course is going downhill
so in my view this course is going downhill
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Leeds was my 1st choice, Salford my 2nd both offering the same av tech w/ps course.
Flunked my A levels (C,D,U) an could only by the skin of my teeth get into Salford although from what I've heard from many people it may have been a blessing in diguise.
Flunked my A levels (C,D,U) an could only by the skin of my teeth get into Salford although from what I've heard from many people it may have been a blessing in diguise.
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Aviation technology
I agree, not only does the degree serve you in case things don't go to plan, but it also helps with the ATPL's- should you go down the route.
If you're young get a degree,whether Aviation based or not, either way it looks much better on the CV.
If you're young get a degree,whether Aviation based or not, either way it looks much better on the CV.
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I'm still not sure, but I think I will give Uni a miss. It sounds good fun (and I don't want to miss out on the social side) but if after 3 years you have a PPL, at CTC or Oxford for instance you could have an ATPL in half that time. I know that sounds abit naive, putting all your eggs in one basket and all that, but isnt it also 3 years lower down a seniority list?
The other thing is the increased cost.
Do you know how much airlines like specific aviation degrees? i.e does it make you more employable- or more favorable for promotion to say management maybe later in your career?
Thanks
The other thing is the increased cost.
Do you know how much airlines like specific aviation degrees? i.e does it make you more employable- or more favorable for promotion to say management maybe later in your career?
Thanks
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I agree the choice whether to go to uni is a tough one. Either can just apply for a flying school, and I suppose kind of put all your eggs in one basket...or you could go to uni. I only decided relatively last minute that I wanted to go to uni. For me, I didn't want to just rely only on flying and I wanted to give myself better opportunities. To be fair I did choose to study an aviation related degree and out of the Leeds course and air transport management at Loughborough I chose the latter. Ultimately what ever you choose it's your choice and just stick with it.
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I'm at Salford just about to start the 3rd and (hopefully!) final year of the Aircraft Engineering with Pilot Studies degree. Sure, not all of the lectures are riveting, and its certainly not an easy option if you want to pass with a good grade, but i feel i will come out of it with a good foundation of knowledge of the aviation industry, a PPL from Ravenair at around half the price it would normally cost (subject to a means tested bursary) and a range of career options still available. Don't get me wrong, I am intent on becoming a commercial pilot, but it offers that bit of security should employment prospects in the airlines take a turn for the worse at just the wrong moment.
I'm now in the process of deciding what route to take towards an ATPL after graduating, something which the time spent at uni has allowed me to research fairly thoroughly. And what's more I'm fairly confident that the grounding in ATPL theory I have received at Salford from, amongst other lecturers, an experienced 757 captain and current CPL examiner, will mean that a good chunk of the ATPL syllabus will be revision for me, at least the basics anyway. Hence, I'll be able to focus more attention on the bits I find difficult.
The downsides - yes it takes longer to reach the ultimate goal, it adds to the overall cost, and the social life in my experience (although I must say I'm living with my parents rather than in halls of residence) isn't a shaddow of the stereotypical student partying every night and coming in at all hours drunk and merry - but hey, that can all wait 'til i'm a F/O right?!
. But I think overall, especially for those who are prepared to be patient and who would like to feel they are well prepared for a career as a pilot (or engineer of course), this is a good path to go down before committing everything to a FTO with no guarantee of a job at the end of it. I'm not saying it suits everyone, and of course I can't say everything will go to plan as I've not even finished the degree yet, let alone secured a place with a good FTO, but I hope this is of some help to anyone who is trying to make that decision if a degree would be right for them.
I'm now in the process of deciding what route to take towards an ATPL after graduating, something which the time spent at uni has allowed me to research fairly thoroughly. And what's more I'm fairly confident that the grounding in ATPL theory I have received at Salford from, amongst other lecturers, an experienced 757 captain and current CPL examiner, will mean that a good chunk of the ATPL syllabus will be revision for me, at least the basics anyway. Hence, I'll be able to focus more attention on the bits I find difficult.
The downsides - yes it takes longer to reach the ultimate goal, it adds to the overall cost, and the social life in my experience (although I must say I'm living with my parents rather than in halls of residence) isn't a shaddow of the stereotypical student partying every night and coming in at all hours drunk and merry - but hey, that can all wait 'til i'm a F/O right?!
. But I think overall, especially for those who are prepared to be patient and who would like to feel they are well prepared for a career as a pilot (or engineer of course), this is a good path to go down before committing everything to a FTO with no guarantee of a job at the end of it. I'm not saying it suits everyone, and of course I can't say everything will go to plan as I've not even finished the degree yet, let alone secured a place with a good FTO, but I hope this is of some help to anyone who is trying to make that decision if a degree would be right for them.
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the ATPL modules are only at GCSE level!
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GCSE students (i.e. under 16's) are forced by law to stay in school! hence as you say ''most GCSE students would struggle with the ATPL modules" most of the students in my class at 16 could not give a rats backside about what was being taught - its not really the same with ATPL students who have invested time and money and really want to succeed in becomming pilots.
if you think human performance, operational procedures, IFR comms, VFR comms, airlaw (amoungst others) are at degree level then you clearly havent tried studying for advanced aerodynamics 2 or perhaps structural analysis on an engineering degree course?
actually GCSE Physics and Maths (certainly A-Level) was a lot harder than say Radio Nav or GNAV. I know students in my ATPL class who prepared for the exams simply by using the database questions - i had to work much harder for my GCSE's and A-levels
Thats my view anyway mate - im not trying to put anyone off a ''pilots studies degree''
if you think human performance, operational procedures, IFR comms, VFR comms, airlaw (amoungst others) are at degree level then you clearly havent tried studying for advanced aerodynamics 2 or perhaps structural analysis on an engineering degree course?
actually GCSE Physics and Maths (certainly A-Level) was a lot harder than say Radio Nav or GNAV. I know students in my ATPL class who prepared for the exams simply by using the database questions - i had to work much harder for my GCSE's and A-levels
Thats my view anyway mate - im not trying to put anyone off a ''pilots studies degree''
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if you think human performance, operational procedures, IFR comms, VFR comms, airlaw (amoungst others) are at degree level then you clearly havent tried studying for advanced aerodynamics 2 or perhaps structural analysis on an engineering degree course?
actually GCSE Physics and Maths (certainly A-Level) was a lot harder than say Radio Nav or GNAV. I know students in my ATPL class who prepared for the exams simply by using the database questions - i had to work much harder for my GCSE's and A-levels
actually GCSE Physics and Maths (certainly A-Level) was a lot harder than say Radio Nav or GNAV. I know students in my ATPL class who prepared for the exams simply by using the database questions - i had to work much harder for my GCSE's and A-levels
Thats my view anyway mate - im not trying to put anyone off a ''pilots studies degree''
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with regards to how ATPL module could be a degree. i think that degrees are tailored to a certain profession and so is making the student adapt to the industry or job. so that's my view as to how it could be offered at the degree level.
the level of academia required for ATPL groundschool is definetly higher than GCSE however. i don't really know why the minimum requirements are only at GCSEs level but nevermind, i don't make the rules. i certainly don't recall integration and differentiation at GCSE. you don't have to carry out these calculations but without the knowledge, i dont see how someone could fully understand what is going on. oh, i am referring to the study of INS for the above.
overall, it is quantity rather than difficulty thats the main challenge but i definetly think the level is about A level standard. come to think of it, you have to be 18 to get a CPL/IR anyway, so a school leaver would have to wait a couple of years.
the level of academia required for ATPL groundschool is definetly higher than GCSE however. i don't really know why the minimum requirements are only at GCSEs level but nevermind, i don't make the rules. i certainly don't recall integration and differentiation at GCSE. you don't have to carry out these calculations but without the knowledge, i dont see how someone could fully understand what is going on. oh, i am referring to the study of INS for the above.
overall, it is quantity rather than difficulty thats the main challenge but i definetly think the level is about A level standard. come to think of it, you have to be 18 to get a CPL/IR anyway, so a school leaver would have to wait a couple of years.
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i got an offer here but turned it down to do an M.eng in aerospace engineering at Bath Uni from september..
although now im contemplating fleet air arm..
my friend did that course, went to CTC then passed and is now JOC/Line Training with B A
a few from his course made it and a few didnt..
although now im contemplating fleet air arm..
my friend did that course, went to CTC then passed and is now JOC/Line Training with B A
a few from his course made it and a few didnt..
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I don't know about anyone else but I have never been told "I'm sorry - we'd like to teach you about ATPL theory but since you're at university now its too easy so you'll have to keep guessing".
No, the ATPL subjects are not inherently difficult but try cramming them in amongst advanced thermodynamics, engineering materials, aerofluid dynamics, flight mechanics, and all the other "ics" and, as anyone who has done an engineering degree will tell you, its not easy! After the first year the number of students on my course was whittled down from 16 to 9 - the ones who left were all very intelligent, talented people, but they just couldn't manage the workload.
That is how the course is deliberately designed. Obtaining a degree in such a course proves to the likes of OAA, CTC etc that, aside from being able to absorb the material, you are capable of committing yourself to an intensive and challenging course for a significant period of time, having invested your own money and time in your ambitions. Isn't this exactly the sort of low-risk prospective student they are looking for?
No, the ATPL subjects are not inherently difficult but try cramming them in amongst advanced thermodynamics, engineering materials, aerofluid dynamics, flight mechanics, and all the other "ics" and, as anyone who has done an engineering degree will tell you, its not easy! After the first year the number of students on my course was whittled down from 16 to 9 - the ones who left were all very intelligent, talented people, but they just couldn't manage the workload.
That is how the course is deliberately designed. Obtaining a degree in such a course proves to the likes of OAA, CTC etc that, aside from being able to absorb the material, you are capable of committing yourself to an intensive and challenging course for a significant period of time, having invested your own money and time in your ambitions. Isn't this exactly the sort of low-risk prospective student they are looking for?
Isn't this exactly the sort of low-risk prospective student they are looking for?
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Why?
A cynic regarding the benefits of a modern degree at the best of times, I can't help but question why anyone would want to waste 3 years of their lives on pre-entry training for a profession that ultimately has no pre-entry requirements (aside from the obvious industry demanded qualifications).
If you need ammunition to pass entry exams for CTC et al, why not just go for a Duke of Edinburgh award - you'll find it a quicker and significantly cheaper option. Or for that matter why not join the air cadets (and get some free flying to boot).
Ultimately, in my view, should the airline dream go belly up, your investment will go as far as every other graduate's in so far as warranting a junior office job for 16K per year (pretty well as much as a capable school leaver might expect). Lets face it, nowadays a degree is part of the job description for the most mundane of jobs.
The number of 18 year olds going through the saussage factory are testament to the requirement for this sort of evidence of commitment (i.e. there is no requirement at all). As has been mentioned already, the "mandatory" training is costly enough, let alone considering adding the costs of a university education to the total. It might just be that credit conditions in the future preclude banks from lending further (seriously large) sums to individuals already up to their eyeballs in debt.
In other words, if you want a crack at being a pilot, get stuck in now. Get your parents, grandparents, parents' friends, teachers and anyone else you can to grill you on the obvious questions, (if you really want it, you'll have picked up as much info as you need from the internet, papers, books etc.). Walk into the interviews confident and hit the ground running. Before you know it you'll be solo in a light aircraft and then...who knows.
If you need ammunition to pass entry exams for CTC et al, why not just go for a Duke of Edinburgh award - you'll find it a quicker and significantly cheaper option. Or for that matter why not join the air cadets (and get some free flying to boot).
Ultimately, in my view, should the airline dream go belly up, your investment will go as far as every other graduate's in so far as warranting a junior office job for 16K per year (pretty well as much as a capable school leaver might expect). Lets face it, nowadays a degree is part of the job description for the most mundane of jobs.
The number of 18 year olds going through the saussage factory are testament to the requirement for this sort of evidence of commitment (i.e. there is no requirement at all). As has been mentioned already, the "mandatory" training is costly enough, let alone considering adding the costs of a university education to the total. It might just be that credit conditions in the future preclude banks from lending further (seriously large) sums to individuals already up to their eyeballs in debt.
In other words, if you want a crack at being a pilot, get stuck in now. Get your parents, grandparents, parents' friends, teachers and anyone else you can to grill you on the obvious questions, (if you really want it, you'll have picked up as much info as you need from the internet, papers, books etc.). Walk into the interviews confident and hit the ground running. Before you know it you'll be solo in a light aircraft and then...who knows.