Academic Qualifications
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Re: Qualifications
Hi Tom
Im also in my last year of college, im 18 and also hold a PPL (a lot of us around these days!)
Its by no means perequisite to do Maths A Level, i do Physics as A level though as i like it, however do the subjects u enjoy! If all goes to plan i should be going to Oxford this summer on the APP, might see you there!
PM me if you have anymore questions
Good luck
Im also in my last year of college, im 18 and also hold a PPL (a lot of us around these days!)
Its by no means perequisite to do Maths A Level, i do Physics as A level though as i like it, however do the subjects u enjoy! If all goes to plan i should be going to Oxford this summer on the APP, might see you there!
PM me if you have anymore questions
Good luck
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Re: Qualifications
thanks! yeh mayb see you there but im going to try CTC first as they are just down the road from me! ok well if anyone has anything else to add id appreciate it! thanks
Tom
Tom
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Re: Qualifications
I don't know what the airlines require re:A-Levels for sponsorship these days but if you're self sponsoring then don't worry - GCSE level maths is more than enough.
VFE.
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academically cable to be a pilot
Hello,
Would any be able to give me some very important advice. My parents are after putting up the deedes to their house as security to fund my pilot training. I'm very worriered that if I get half way through the course and I am not able to pass the exams, the house will be taking of them because they would not be able to make the payments for five years.
Could you tell me with your own experience what is an just under academically average person's chance of getting the commercially licence please.
Would any be able to give me some very important advice. My parents are after putting up the deedes to their house as security to fund my pilot training. I'm very worriered that if I get half way through the course and I am not able to pass the exams, the house will be taking of them because they would not be able to make the payments for five years.
Could you tell me with your own experience what is an just under academically average person's chance of getting the commercially licence please.
Last edited by wire12; 9th May 2007 at 20:36.
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There are plenty of threads that cover this topic. Try a quick forum search. However, as a rule of thumb, the ATPL exams are compared by many to GCSE's in terms of difficulty. In fact, someone here recently compared passing the ATPL exams to passing 14 GCSE's rather than equating the ATPL's to a degree. I've not sat them personally, so I guess there are many more people here more qualified to comment.
As we don’t know anything about you or your academic ability (just under is a bit vague), it’s difficult to say – so I won’t comment there. All I’ll say is, I hope you succeed – for your parents’ sake as much as your own. It’s a wonderful gesture what your parents have made. Do lots of research and find out as much as you can about the training. Maybe visit a few schools.
Good luck.
S.
As we don’t know anything about you or your academic ability (just under is a bit vague), it’s difficult to say – so I won’t comment there. All I’ll say is, I hope you succeed – for your parents’ sake as much as your own. It’s a wonderful gesture what your parents have made. Do lots of research and find out as much as you can about the training. Maybe visit a few schools.
Good luck.
S.
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the ATPL exams are compared by many to GCSE's in terms of difficulty. In fact, someone here recently compared passing the ATPL exams to passing 14 GCSE's rather than equating the ATPL's to a degree.
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I have to say my own experience of the ATPLs is that in terms of difficulty they are nothing like as difficult as doing a "proper" degree..... I did an engineering degree that was many times more complex in terms of the level of understanding required than the ATPL exams.... and certainly for my degree there wasn't a question bank in the public domain containing 60-70% of the questions I was likely to face.
I think the 14 GCSE analogy is probably nearer the truth from my own experience.... (without the coursework of course
)... perhaps even less challenging because lets face it the 2 comms exams are not exactly rocket science.
Its really just about volume... nothing too technically difficult if you can get a very basic grip of physics/maths. Like I say it is only my own experience but I managed to get through the ATPLs in 12 months whilst working 60-70 hours per week in a full time job so even the volume side can be done.
Another thing I would point to with the ATPLs is that many many people now seem to be getting through with averages in the 90s for all 14 exams (if the folks I talk to are telling the truth!).... I don't know any other professional exams in which people so regularly get such a high average mark.
Having recently been through the exam process it certainly was not as tough as some people had led me to believe..... good on you though for asking the question, its a big risk.... personally I would never let my parents put their house on the line to fund flying training... many old hands on here spend a lot of time and effort telling wanabees how fickle this industry can be.... why not reduce the risk, get a job and do the exams whilst working if you are that worried about it??
I think the 14 GCSE analogy is probably nearer the truth from my own experience.... (without the coursework of course
)... perhaps even less challenging because lets face it the 2 comms exams are not exactly rocket science.Its really just about volume... nothing too technically difficult if you can get a very basic grip of physics/maths. Like I say it is only my own experience but I managed to get through the ATPLs in 12 months whilst working 60-70 hours per week in a full time job so even the volume side can be done.
Another thing I would point to with the ATPLs is that many many people now seem to be getting through with averages in the 90s for all 14 exams (if the folks I talk to are telling the truth!).... I don't know any other professional exams in which people so regularly get such a high average mark.
Having recently been through the exam process it certainly was not as tough as some people had led me to believe..... good on you though for asking the question, its a big risk.... personally I would never let my parents put their house on the line to fund flying training... many old hands on here spend a lot of time and effort telling wanabees how fickle this industry can be.... why not reduce the risk, get a job and do the exams whilst working if you are that worried about it??
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Would any be able to give me some very important advice. My parents are after putting up the deedes to their house as security to fund my pilot training. I'm very worriered that if I get half way through the course and I am not able to pass the exams, the house will be taking of them because they would not be able to make the payments for five years.
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I agree with Re-Heat. If your folks are risking losing their home over your training you're putting yourself under a hell of a lot of pressure. There is enough pressure involved in getting your fATPL as it is without that sort of worry.
Work full time and save like mad, borrow from a bank what you can, apply to the likes of CTC who will help you arrange a loan, anything but what your parents are suggesting in my opinion. A flying job ain't worth seeing your family put out on the street mate.
Good Luck
Work full time and save like mad, borrow from a bank what you can, apply to the likes of CTC who will help you arrange a loan, anything but what your parents are suggesting in my opinion. A flying job ain't worth seeing your family put out on the street mate.
Good Luck
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Will a lack of basic quals hold me back?
This is one for the more senior pilots that perhaps have an input when CV's fly over desks.
I have NO basic GCSE's as i was a bit of a prat in my youth and wanted to work. I managed to talk my way in to a job as an aprentice mechanic and then joined the Army where i spent 10 years as a technician. I'm now a design engineer with EADS (Airbus parent company, i dont have anything to do with that though!) and have numerous qualifications in my field.
So thats me, but back to my question, will i be overlooked because i have no basic quals?
OAT have said they would be happy to accept me on experience but as a business i would expect that, i'm not so sure an airline would be so forgiving.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Phil
I have NO basic GCSE's as i was a bit of a prat in my youth and wanted to work. I managed to talk my way in to a job as an aprentice mechanic and then joined the Army where i spent 10 years as a technician. I'm now a design engineer with EADS (Airbus parent company, i dont have anything to do with that though!) and have numerous qualifications in my field.
So thats me, but back to my question, will i be overlooked because i have no basic quals?
OAT have said they would be happy to accept me on experience but as a business i would expect that, i'm not so sure an airline would be so forgiving.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Phil
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Thanks
Cheers Scroggs, was actually aiming that question at you. Thanks a lot.
Would i be expected to put my Career quals on an Airline CV or just work exp and flying Exp?
Phil
Would i be expected to put my Career quals on an Airline CV or just work exp and flying Exp?
Phil
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I would perhaps put the highest qualification you have on there, and allude to 'supporting qualifications'. An aviation CV (we're crossing back to your original topic here!) does not require inventive descriptions of how good you are or have been; it is simply a statement of directly-relevant experience.
Even brand-new baby pilots straight out of school rarely need to mention much about academic qualifications - though they might as well, as they have little else to talk about - unless they are applying for one of the various pay-it-yourself 'sponsorship' schemes. Also, it's worth bearing in mind that many airlines now use application forms rather than CVs, where you may well have an opportunity to note down non-academic quals.
Scroggs
Even brand-new baby pilots straight out of school rarely need to mention much about academic qualifications - though they might as well, as they have little else to talk about - unless they are applying for one of the various pay-it-yourself 'sponsorship' schemes. Also, it's worth bearing in mind that many airlines now use application forms rather than CVs, where you may well have an opportunity to note down non-academic quals.
Scroggs
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I doubt the exams are equivalent to 14 GCSE's - the two comms exams took approx 2 and a half minutes each to sit (so 5 mins in total for 2 exams - but then I heard GCSEs were getting easier). With the best will in the world the exams can be done part time in less than a year. A degree is 3 years full time and GSCEs 2 years full time. They do require time, patience and study but 'ballpark' comparisons will always be contentious.
If you struggle you will assume a hefty (possibly degree) equivalent; if you didn't you will find an easier comparison. Some science A levels are probably harder than some degrees
One of the guys on my crammer course was telling everyone how an ATPL was considered equivalent to a degree. He was on his final attempt in several subjects but was still having problems transposing simple formulas. (eg if speed = distance/time how do you find time if you are given speed and distance). I really hope he made it, but the fact he found it difficult didn't make it any closer to a degree.
I used an excellent book called "Ace the technical pilot interview" or similar to brush up on what I had done in the exams pre-airline interview. I would suggest those who are worried to have a quick browse through it and see if they could ever see themselves learning it (bearing in mind it is not a teaching course, simply an aide memoire). It gives a hint as to what sort of level of knowedge is required.
As to what qualifications employers want - this thread could go on forever but my own tuppenceworth is than their importance diminishes with other experience.
If you are 21 with 3 GCSEs and a shelf stacking career you may find other candidates take your place.
If you are 21 with 3 GCSEs and have led a round the world expedition including organising the support team and getting major corporate sposorship - then you probably shouldn't worry too much.
Everyone applying for the job will have the same license. Say there are 300 of you - what have you got that they haven't; and can you put it in a CV so that when 10 of you are invited to interview, you are one of them. Academic quals (for the younger applicant) are a useful filter at that stage.
Some larger companies won't look at you regardless. If they have to filter10,000 applicants who do have their academic criteria why would they even entertain those who don't.
There are plenty of you there who have cited cases of people without A-levels (or equivalent) getting a job. I know someone who smoked 40 a day for most of his life and lived to be 90. It doesn't mean that smoking is the smartest thing to do for a long life though - many more have died of lung cancer in their 50s.
As to them taking up too much space on your CV - I could take up an entire side of A4 if I wanted to; it doesn't mean you have to though. 14 GSCEs can be listed as
"14 GCSEs - Grades A-C: Including Mathematics and Physics"
or similar. Many companies have an application form with spaces for that sort of thing anyway.
Given the costs involved, however, I would be slightly wary if you cannot stick an academic course because you have no motivation but assume 12 months of maths and physics based (amongst other stuff) ATPL exams will hold your attention any more. I think most on this thread will agree that A levels are beneficial to getting a job but not necessary - if that benefit isn't motivational enough consider:
Trigonometry doesn't get hugely more interesting because there is a picture of an aeroplane at one of the corners on the blackboard.
Cl=1/2 x rho x v (squared) x s isn't ant less algebraic because Cl is the coefficient of lift
And the endless pages of drivel about conventions in Warsaw aren't enthralling because they refer to air law.
If you struggle you will assume a hefty (possibly degree) equivalent; if you didn't you will find an easier comparison. Some science A levels are probably harder than some degrees
One of the guys on my crammer course was telling everyone how an ATPL was considered equivalent to a degree. He was on his final attempt in several subjects but was still having problems transposing simple formulas. (eg if speed = distance/time how do you find time if you are given speed and distance). I really hope he made it, but the fact he found it difficult didn't make it any closer to a degree.
I used an excellent book called "Ace the technical pilot interview" or similar to brush up on what I had done in the exams pre-airline interview. I would suggest those who are worried to have a quick browse through it and see if they could ever see themselves learning it (bearing in mind it is not a teaching course, simply an aide memoire). It gives a hint as to what sort of level of knowedge is required.
As to what qualifications employers want - this thread could go on forever but my own tuppenceworth is than their importance diminishes with other experience.
If you are 21 with 3 GCSEs and a shelf stacking career you may find other candidates take your place.
If you are 21 with 3 GCSEs and have led a round the world expedition including organising the support team and getting major corporate sposorship - then you probably shouldn't worry too much.
Everyone applying for the job will have the same license. Say there are 300 of you - what have you got that they haven't; and can you put it in a CV so that when 10 of you are invited to interview, you are one of them. Academic quals (for the younger applicant) are a useful filter at that stage.
Some larger companies won't look at you regardless. If they have to filter10,000 applicants who do have their academic criteria why would they even entertain those who don't.
There are plenty of you there who have cited cases of people without A-levels (or equivalent) getting a job. I know someone who smoked 40 a day for most of his life and lived to be 90. It doesn't mean that smoking is the smartest thing to do for a long life though - many more have died of lung cancer in their 50s.
As to them taking up too much space on your CV - I could take up an entire side of A4 if I wanted to; it doesn't mean you have to though. 14 GSCEs can be listed as
"14 GCSEs - Grades A-C: Including Mathematics and Physics"
or similar. Many companies have an application form with spaces for that sort of thing anyway.
Given the costs involved, however, I would be slightly wary if you cannot stick an academic course because you have no motivation but assume 12 months of maths and physics based (amongst other stuff) ATPL exams will hold your attention any more. I think most on this thread will agree that A levels are beneficial to getting a job but not necessary - if that benefit isn't motivational enough consider:
Trigonometry doesn't get hugely more interesting because there is a picture of an aeroplane at one of the corners on the blackboard.
Cl=1/2 x rho x v (squared) x s isn't ant less algebraic because Cl is the coefficient of lift
And the endless pages of drivel about conventions in Warsaw aren't enthralling because they refer to air law.
I'm not sure how to put this tactfully, so I won't...
How anyone can suggest that a GCSE can be comparable with A-Levels, a Degree or ATPLs is beyond me.
GCSEs were easy when I did them, probably easier now, and the jump between GCSEs and A-Levels is known to be larger than the jump from A-Levels and a Degree. Do you even need to 'know' anything to pass a GCSE?!
Gee, I'm amazed at this discussion, I thought ATPL exams were supposed to be hard! If they're the same as GCSEs I'll pass easily!!!
BUT I don't believe that's the case at all. IT flies in the face of logic and common-sense. In fact, despite having a Degree and being a qualified solicitor I don't mind admitting I'll have to work my arse off to get my ATPLs!
How anyone can suggest that a GCSE can be comparable with A-Levels, a Degree or ATPLs is beyond me.
GCSEs were easy when I did them, probably easier now, and the jump between GCSEs and A-Levels is known to be larger than the jump from A-Levels and a Degree. Do you even need to 'know' anything to pass a GCSE?!
Gee, I'm amazed at this discussion, I thought ATPL exams were supposed to be hard! If they're the same as GCSEs I'll pass easily!!!
BUT I don't believe that's the case at all. IT flies in the face of logic and common-sense. In fact, despite having a Degree and being a qualified solicitor I don't mind admitting I'll have to work my arse off to get my ATPLs!
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ATPL equivalent to NVQ, A-Levels or HNC/HND?
I was just wondering what was the official line on the equivalence of the ATPL theory to:
- NVQ
- A-Levels
- HNC/HND
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There is no official line - but a quick search will show that different people consider it to be equal to any of the above.
Personally, in terms of difficulty I don't think anything is harder than a science O level (and since we are constantly assured that GCSEs are not getting easier then the same stands for that).
There is a lot of volume to learn in things like Air Law - but that is nearly all simply memorising stuff.
All the exams can be done from start to finish in less than a year whilst holding down a full time job - to give you an idea of the amount of study.
So in terms of difficulty andquantity I would say that all the exams together are about the same as a couple of O levels.
There will be many differing opinions to follow.....
If your question is as to where to list it on CVs (BTECs in the A-level box or whatever), then aviation employers know what it is and non-aviation employers probably won't care a jot.
Personally, in terms of difficulty I don't think anything is harder than a science O level (and since we are constantly assured that GCSEs are not getting easier then the same stands for that).
There is a lot of volume to learn in things like Air Law - but that is nearly all simply memorising stuff.
All the exams can be done from start to finish in less than a year whilst holding down a full time job - to give you an idea of the amount of study.
So in terms of difficulty andquantity I would say that all the exams together are about the same as a couple of O levels.
There will be many differing opinions to follow.....
If your question is as to where to list it on CVs (BTECs in the A-level box or whatever), then aviation employers know what it is and non-aviation employers probably won't care a jot.