Academic Qualifications

[clear prop!!!]

With respect greatorex,...you are wrong.

This is from first hand experience which is I have to say indisputable! (RAF excluded, but that's another can of beans)

Having said that ...go for the A levels.

[Fly_146]

Where has all this 'you won't get a job unless you at least have A-levels' come from?

I can think of at least two pilots without a single GCSE (let alone A-levels!) to their name who both fly jets for reputable airlines.

But yes, its a good idea to get them now while its all free from the system, you have financial backing from your folks and while you're so fresh from GCSE's. The two years will fly by.

[greatorex]

Guys,

The point that I was trying to make, is that there are an awful lot of unemployed pilots out there. If a 17 year old asks - "should I do my A Levels or not?" The answer, in my mind, would have to be: "Yes, because you'll find it much easier to get a job with them."

We all know that 'A' levels do not make a good pilot but unfortunately, in this day and age the young guys coming into the industry need as many aces up their sleeves as they can manage. Sad, but that's the way things are.

Give it a few more years and it will be: Only Graduates with a Master's Degree in Aeronautical sciences need apply!!!!

[ZeroHoursMan]

Thanks for all the advice, I've taken a lot of it aboard from both sides of the story. I feel that 2 years of A level studies would be pretty hard for me due to lack of interest. I have found motivation and reason though now.
The advice on the forum has seriously pushed me towards a decision though, and I have managed to enroll myself on a Mathematics (with mechanics), full A level course at the local college, studying the fasttrack version which is done in a single year. It will be tough but my aim is to study well, and also try and study a lot of basic PPL + pre-ATPL material. I may even be able to work as well.

I have also been slightly pressured towards taking the single year A level by my family who have set aside a fairly large some of money towards my attaining a ATPL CPL/IR.

By preference I am going to enroll on the September 2003 course at Jerez nearer the time.

Maybe the hardest decision because I wouldnt normally have done the A levels.

But heres the example, i turn up to an interview for job, im as good as the next bloke, he doesnt have A levels, i do, maybe it would help, but how knows?

The only reason im doing it I suppose is for the part funding for the training.

One day I may even make it into the pointy end of a jet liner, by god someone would need to stupid to let me near all those buttons!!!!

[clear prop!!!]

Good luck my friend.

Wise move,...a year or so extra at your age is nothing and you may well find yourself in greater demand.

However the fact still remains, ... it IS possible without A levels

[ZeroHoursMan]

It makes it an interesting contrast. I guess in the end determination is the best asset.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

A-levels are worth it. For some a degree these days - not. IMHO.

If you have decent GCSE and A level grades then the issue of your academic ability ceases to be.

3 years and £10,000 of debt is a big investment - you must be certain of the return to make such a decision.

Personally, I would have been better off without my degree and would have done things differently. Hindsight however is 20/20.

Good memories though!

WWW

[RowleyUK]

Scroggs,

Non-A-level-qualified youngsters don't tend to get offered great jobs in any field.

A ridiculous statement!

Ive got to do disagree my friend....sorry!

Im now 22 and have just quit a well paid job to start full time training. Ive not got A-levels, but i finished an apprenticeship in IT and ended up on a good number. I also know of people slightly older than me who are probably earning more then most pilots!
Therefore, people without A-levels do get good jobs!!!!!

ZHM,

I dont regret not doing my A-levels and im glad i did an apprenticeship, thus giving me money to fund my PPL,Hour Building and ATPL's Full time.All at 22!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So why not consider an apprenticeship.

Rob

[Ennie]

I would advise you do A Levels. The more you have under your belt the better.

As for not getting a flying job with an airline without them...Rubbish. As someone mentioned they know pilots without a single GCSE, I also know pilots without GCSE's, one of whom is a Captain with a major airline flying rather hefty jets.

[g_conaty]

I would like to ask a question about academic qualifications which are required to become an airline pilot.

Here's the situation:

What if someone has 5 GCSE's graded A-C but they arent in english, maths and science but they have got A-C in physiscs at A-level.

Would the airlines be reluctant to accept them because of their lack of grades at GCSE.

Also, apart from Physics and Maths, are there any other A-level subjects which airlines look for.

Thanks

[tailscrape]

I had:

3 GCSE' at A to C

And some professional qualifications.

I got lucky and my first job is on a 757. No probs at all, but I was lucky. Right place right time.

It is about personality as much as academics!

[scroggs]

Firstly: do not multiple-post your question on this (or any other) forum - you just **** people off.

Secondly: do a search using the terms 'qualifications', 'a-levels', or 'GCSEs' and you will find endless debates on this issue.

[TubularBells]

Academic refresher

Hi,

I'm currently having a bit of difficulty deciding my best route for refreshing my knowledge in Physics and Mathematics.

I have completed my PPL and aim to start the ATPL ground school towards the end of this year, but am looking as to how I am going to refresh on knowledge I learnt over ten years ago (currently 29 Yrs old).

I was good with Mathematics, Physics and Electronics at GCSE level. I work in IT at a high level, I'm not by any means stupid (well, not that I'm aware of anyhow!) and I know I'm capable of completing the ATPL course academically. I just don't want to waste time learning Mathematics and Physics whilst trying to learn what I’m really there for! As I understand it, there’s a hell of a lot to learn on the ATPL, so I’m best to get everything else brushed up first, so I can hit the ground running.

There are 2 options available to me that I am aware of:

Option 1 - I know that Oxford are now running two courses aimed at the mature student who has forgotten all (can anyone give any feedback on this?), but it is quite a lot of money (£150 - 3 day Maths; £500 - 5 day Physics).

Option 2 - Hire a private Maths/ Physics tutor, furnishing them with my requirements for revision. Cost approximately £25 per hour.

I have so far, attained a list of subject matter which suggests I need to know the following before I start:

Maths:
Index Notation
Conversion of factions to decimals and vice versa
Pythagoras
Sin/Tan/Cos
Reciprocals
Algebra

Physics:
Basic Magnetism
Simple Electrics
Metal behaviour
Temperatures
Mass and Balance
Friction
Light
Viscosity of Liquids

Chemistry:
Chemical Compositions
Oxidation and burning
----

I would be very grateful if anyone could give me their thoughts and views on the above. Also, if anyone has any particular experiences which have helped them get to where they are now, having been in a similar position, I would also be very grateful.

Many Thanks in advance.

[kido]

i finished the ATPL's last year at the age of 30.
So haven't been to school for about the same time as you.
Physics/Maths were my stronger subjects in high school and found that a lot of it came back quite quickly.
don't stress about it too much.
If u find u are having any trouble......just get a tutor, as you suggested - for an hour or 2 and i am sure that will b enough.
OR
even cheaper solution - go to the library and take out some books from there.
............its not that difficult, just the sheer volume of material to study that gets you.
Good luck

[147]

Qualifications

Hi all, I am from the UK and i need a bit of advice for my mate. My mate is 23 and he left school at 15 with no qualifications and his dream job is to become a pilot and fly for a airline company. I told him it would be hard getting a pilots job with no qualifications, But he has told me he would go to college and study and get the qualifications needed to be a pilot, But what he wants to know is what is the best subjects to study to become a pilot and at the age of 23 is he to old to be a pilot. Thanks for your help and advice it is very much appreciated.

Best Regards

[badattitude781]

Hello 147,

If you friend wants to apply for a sponsorhip then most airlines require two or three A-levels. However a lot of people (like myself) did not get sponsorships and payed for their own training with a flying school. eg. Oxford or Cabair.
The flying school's dont require A-levels. They prefer you to have some GCSE's. Maths, English and a Science such as Physics would probably help your friend in the long run.

Secondly, I dont think 23 is too old at all. I know a 747 captain who didnt start doing his ATPL training until he was 43.

It would probably be worthwhile your friend phoning a couple of the flying schools to see what they have to say. Oxford has a career's advisor. I cant remember his full name other than his nickname is Lofty!

You can contact him via this forum:

http://www.oxfordaviation.net/forum/default.asp

Hope this helps!

[mmeteesside]

Qualifications?

What sort of 'grades' do I need at GCSE level, I'm in Year 9 at school and about to take my options in February. Which subjects should I take to be in the best position to be a pilot.

Maybe a list like this will help:

Subject Lowest grade
English C
Maths B
.....

Hope you understand

Thanks a lot
Scott Cooper

P.S: also want to start my own airline when I get lots of money!!! (dream)

[No. 2]

mmeteesside -

Usually employers look for 5 GCSEs at grades A-C which will usually include passes in Maths and Science. This does depend from one place to the other but it's a fairly common standard. However, don't worry about that too much and try and do as well as you can at all your GCSEs because in a few years the standard may have changed - probably higher than lower!

Choose whichever subjects you enjoy most at GCSE. The ones employers are most interested in are usually the compulsory subjects anyway like Maths, English and Science. Quite often now, those few places offering sponsorships are looking for a couple of A levels too, but don't worry about that just yet.

Also give this website a look. There's a couple of links on there that'll give you more information on how to go about becoming a pilot.

Good luck

No. 2

[Obs cop]

mmeteeside,

Maths grade A,
History grade A,
Latin grade A, ......................

sorry, couldn't resist it!! Ignore that as my real advice is below for what it is worth.

One of the main things is what sort of flying you want to do, but lets deal with the simple bit first. Both the military and civil pipelines require a lot of study to achieve the coveted pilot's seat and in that respect I would suggest that Maths and Physics are the most beneficial (some would say essential as much of the information from these is the basis of the more technical exams). Employers generally, not just aviation also like to see English Language. Beyond those 3 main subjects, it really is up to you but realistically you should aim to get grade C's minimum.

I would personally suggest you aim to continue Maths and Physics through to A level, but that is not always realistic as you need to ensure any A levels sat are subjects you do well at. No point sitting the exams if you can't pass them.

Now down to the more awkward bit.

Civil flying:

There are no formal educational requirements for civil aviation, the aim being that the courses you complete in order to get your licences need a lot of study which can be completed regardless of you background qualifications. However, the groundschool element is much more demanding if you don't already have some knowledge of GCSE maths and physics. The biggest problem is that the market for jobs is very competative and a good standard of education is a definate plus, particularly if you are looking to get sponsorship.

The moral of the story thus far is work hard at school and try to ensure you get as many A to C grades as possible. Then complete further education if possible. Some believe a degree is beneficial, but my opinion is that unless it has a direct relevance to a flying career the money and time can be spent more constructively. Don's flak jacket and waits.....................

Military flying:

A different kettle of fish in that the vast majority of pilots are commissioned officers with stipulated educational requirements to enter. They are set quite low from what I remember being 5 GCSE's at A to C including Maths, Physics and English Language. However, I don't personally know of any pilots who didn't have A levels. Quite a high percentage have degrees, but they are not essential. You just have to shine that bit more when competing with graduates for the jobs!! The lowest achademic requirements are to fly through the Army Air Corps. which is the only service which has non-commissioned pilots. The catch is that you cannot join straight off the street as a non-commissioned pilot. You need to join as some other role first and then once in you can transfer over to the Army Air Corps.

The moral of this story is ....................... again to work hard at school. Don't worry though if your grades aren't as good as you were hoping for. You can still become a pilot, but it just becomes that little bit harder. Put the work in now and you will get the rewards you deserve.

Best of luck

Obs cop

PS. my highest qualification is A level Woodwork

[mmeteesside]

Thanks!

Thanks you two, a very informative read! It surprised me when I read that I didn't need a degree!

Thanks again
Scott Cooper