Licence Questions (requirements, costs, hours, LASORS etc.)

[hollywood285]

If I was you I would go and get the class 1 medical first, had my eyes checked( I were glasses) which I thought would be ok but to my misforture were to far out of balance. Of well stick to flying the spam cas, dont think thats a real bad thing, doing my twin rating this month!!

[Keygrip]

Financially?

I'd do the medical first.

Then the ground school - get it all done and dusted.

Then renew the PPL - with however much time that takes to "get it right" (consider a commercial school/instructor to get you back to speed - including the CPL level navigation and general handling).

Then go do some experience building, on your own.

Then do the instrument rating (to include the multi engine rating), then the CPL.

[wasntme]

If you don't manage to do the 12 hours leading up to the expiry of your ppl you can do a flight test with an examiner. It will involve a short cross country and some general handling.

Obviously if you do the 12 hours you will only need to do a flight check with an instructor.

It would work out cheaper if you did a couple or so hours with an instructor to get comfortable with the a/c and then when your happy do the test.

But do get the class 1 medical out of the way before committing to any ATPL/ CPL ideas.

[Quarto]

Hello,

thanks for the advice so far. To clear something up I have already taken the pilgrimage to the CAA medical department to get the Class 1 medical.

Quarto

[Re-Heat]

You can do the flight test to revalidate it in a couple of weekends - keep it current first and foremost IMHO.

You don't need 12 hours if you do the test itself with an examiner instead.

[Keygrip]

Keep it current?

What on Earth for?

If Quarto hasn't been able to keep the exciting, shiny, new licence (well, class rating) "current" for two years, then he/she/it is extremely unlikely to keep himself/herself/current for the duration of the ATPL groundschool.

Financially, I'd let it lapse and then renew it with a few lessons and a flight test when ready to do the experience building.

Just having a current rating doesn't make you fit to fly an aircraft - and if you haven't done any whilst not studying the ATPL, there's no way you are going to find time whilst doing them.

[aviate2day]

If you want to fly for a living then get moving, the job market is already busy and not withstanding some world event it is going to be busy for the next few years.
I had a ppl which was lapsed by over 2 years as I remember. I chose to revalidate it. As said just a few lessons then a test with an examiner. I needed to build about 50 hours. So I signed up with Bristol GS in August 02. When the weather was bad I studied, if it was good I flew. Passed all 14 exams by May 03 and had my CPL/IR finished by August 03. No airline jobs for guys with 250 hours at that time so I got an FI rating and instructed for a year. the money was crap but it was fantastic fun.
Depending on your circumstances you have a very flexible job. Reasonable holidays and the ability to do contract/supply work. Don't bumble through the training research your own requirements and make a plan!
Funny old thing I was flying with a guy last week who used to be/is a Physics teacher.
Send me a pm if needed

[Quarto]

Thanks

Thanks to all those who responded. I have thought about what everyone has posted so far. I have just sent of an e-mail to BristolGS and plan to spend the summer vacation to study for the ATPLs (or part of!).
Cheers,
Quarto

[microfilter]

My advice is based on if you are watchin every penny. Let the SEP lapse for now- you're unlikely to need it for a while. Get the groundschool done distance learning- Bristol or Oxford. Oxford do have some very good lecturers- I'm pretty sure they use these good ones for the brush-ups. Can't speak for Bristol as didn't go there- although i'm sure it's just as good. Get the bristol database- a vast majority of JAA questions are in there- it is the best help you can get. That's it- that should get you through......good luck!

[potkettleblack]

Quarto I can count on a few fingers the people I know that have kept current whilst doing the ATPL's. One guy had a group share so in a sense had to find time to fly in order to get value for money. Another had found a discounted rate on a 152 somewhere so was happy doing a few hours a month.

Everyone else I know have all let their ratings lapse and all yearn for finishing these pesky ATPL's so we can get stuck into the real flying training.

[learboys]

Potkettleblack agreed, there are very few who can afford to fly, I can only speak for myself. There just isn't time, to much to learn and if you one of the lucky guys like us the money is seriously short and tight, so no flying, at least for 9 months, Let your PPL lapse its not the end of the world, its easy to get a PPL back so you don't mind.

I would suggest you invest in Bristol(question bank) if you want to
pass first time round. I have done my ATPL distance learning and
will be finished next week.

Good luck

[dowcipnis]

Licence Requirements

Hi,
Would appreciate some input from you guys out thre. I am looking at conducting flights from within an EU country, internally and to other EU countries in a small twin as a commercial venture.

Can someone tell me what the requirements are beyond PPL (already have ) and Multi. I assume Instrument would also be required but not sure if CPL will be sufficient. The flights will be for ariel sightseeing and short hop business trips for paying clients.
Also wondered what medical I would require, and should I go FAA or JAA? I have no intention of flying to the UK or in the US but will no doubt complete my training in the US.

Thanks for your input in advance.

[weis]

I would have thought you need a CPL/IR/ME/MCC at the very least. Since your'e going to be flying in an EU why bother with FAA and have the added hassle and cost of conversions etc?

[Hour Builder]

There is no need to have a MCC at all. Single pilot twins, do not require you having a MCC. MCC is not a licence endorsement, and is only required when you apply for your first multi pilot aircraft.

I think you want to do more research into what you actually want to do in the end. If you want to fly UK or any JAA registered aircraft you'll need a JAR FCL CPL (A) with a MEP rating. I do not think you'd need an Instrument rating, although having one would definately be advisable. Not having an IR, may require you to cancel a lot of flights, you'd otherwise not needed to had you obtained the IR.

If you do training for this in the US, and unless you are flying an American registered aircraft over here (N-reg), you will want to find a JAR approved school in the USA. You'd be required to have a FAA medical to complete your training there, and when you get your JAR licence issued back in the UK (or another JAA member state depending on where you did your exams, and which NAA approved your FTO) you'll need a JAR Class 1 medical.

HB

[dowcipnis]

Thanks for the feedback gus. I reckon the IR is a must due to the weather over here. The multi is something I need to look into, although to be honest I dont fancy some of the over mountain flights in a single, hence possibly getting a twin for thos trips.
First thing Im gonna do is get my Class 1 med, at 40 you never know

[FlyingForFun]

I think you have a far bigger issue than just worrying about what license you require.

In order to carry out any form of passenger-carrying flight, your company will require an Air Operators Certificate (AOC). The AOC is a document you will need to write (I've never actually seen one properly, but I gather it's usually several hundred pages long). It will describe exactly what your company will do, what routes it will fly, whether it will operate VFR or IFR, what types it will operate - and how it will ensure its pilots are appropriately qualified.

Once you've got that sorted out, you can then go on to think about your original question of pilot qualifications. The question is whether you will be happy to operate 100% VFR, or whether IFR flight will be required. If you can operate VFR, and convince the CAA of the country you are based in that you can operate VFR, then a CPL/Multi should suffice. If there will be any IFR flight, then your pilot(s) will need a CPL/Multi/IR, and 700 hours total time (the minimum for single-pilot IFR operations).

Also wondered what medical I would require, and should I go FAA or JAA?

If you go FAA, you will need an FAA medical. If you go JAA, you will need a JAA medical. If you go FAA, you may find legal problems operating American-registered aircraft within the EU - there are plenty of people who do this for one reason or another, and I'm not sure about all the legal loopholes. Since you're talking about operating in Europe, I would suggest JAA will make your life much easier.

My main point, though, is don't under-estimate what's involved. It's not simply a case of getting the license, buying and aircraft and then ferrying people around - there's far more to it than that.

FFF
---------------

[Hour Builder]

Originally Posted by FlyingForFun

If there will be any IFR flight, then your pilot(s) will need a CPL/Multi/IR, and 700 hours total time (the minimum for single-pilot IFR operations).

where'd the 700 hours come from? Once you get IR-SPA-ME you are set to operate IR-single pilot aerosplanes-multi engine.....

Originally Posted by FlyingForFun

My main point, though, is don't under-estimate what's involved. It's not simply a case of getting the license, buying and aircraft and then ferrying people around - there's far more to it than that.

that much is true

[mcgoo]

Originally Posted by Hour Builder

where'd the 700 hours come from? Once you get IR-SPA-ME you are set to operate IR-single pilot aerosplanes-multi engine.....
that much is true

Hour Builder try JAR-OPS section(ii) here:


JAR-OPS 1.960 Commanders holding a
Commercial Pilot Licence
(a) An operator shall ensure that:
(1) A Commercial Pilot Licence (CPL)
holder does not operate as a commander of an
aeroplane certificated in the Aeroplane Flight
Manual for single pilot operations unless:
(i) When conducting passenger
carrying operations under Visual Flight
Rules (VFR) outside a radius of 50 nm from
an aerodrome of departure, the pilot has a
minimum of 500 hours total flight time on
aeroplanes or holds a valid Instrument
Rating; or
(ii) When operating on a multiengine
type under Instrument Flight Rules
(IFR), the pilot has a minimum of 700 hours
total flight time on aeroplanes which
includes 400 hours as pilot-in-command (in
accordance with [the requirements
governing Flight Crew Licenses]) of which
100 hours have been under IFR including 40
hours multi-engine operation. The 400 hours
as pilot-in-command may be substituted by
hours operating as co-pilot on the basis of
two hours co-pilot is equivalent to one hour
as pilot-in-command provided those hours
were gained within an established multipilot
crew system prescribed in the
Operations Manual;
(2) In addition to sub-paragraph (a)(1)(ii)
above, when operating under IFR as a single pilot,
the requirements prescribed in Appendix 2 to
JAR-OPS 1.940 are satisfied;

[dowcipnis]

Again, I appreciate the input guys. Im only looking at this at the moment from a prospective opportunity. If the costs are not prohibitive then I may take it further. I would appreciate a link if anyone knows where I can look at operating costs according to aircraft type, sort of "for every hour wet/running & maint. costs".

I understand that there is more to this than smply get a plane and fly, but I have the time and funds so no reason not to at least check it out is there.

Watch this space

[ForeverFlight330]

JAA SEP & MEP Re Validation Requirements

I currently have a JAA SEP / MEP though as I have not flown in a while, both need revalidating. I obtained the licenses in 2003 / 04 respectively but since then have not been able to fly for various reasons.

I am now however looking to re validate both these licenses. I understand to keep current in a SEP its 12 hours over two years (although it has to be the second part of the two years) with 12 take off and landings and 1 hour with a flight instructor.
I assume it is the same for the MEP but rather than two years it is one.

My CAA Class 2 medical is still valid, as is my FAA Class 1 as I will be doing the re validations out in America.

After looking through Lasors and JAR-FCL 1.125 I am even more confused than the beginning and am not clear on what flight hour requirements I need to do, how many hours with an instructor and also whether I need a proficiency check or a skills test n both.


Any help would be greatly appreciated.

ForeverFlight330