Unfreezing ATPL
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Do I need to unfreeze my ATPL by 30 Jun 02?
Situation: not looking for airline job for 6-12 years. Have frozen ATPL, can unfreeze with a fair amount of hard grind (hour-building) and £3-6000.
Opinion 1: I'm so close to getting the full licence, I might as well put the extra work in and go for it.
Opinion 2: there's no point, a CPL/IR will be perfectly employable when I come to look for a job due to the 500hr multi-crew multi-engine JAR requirement for ATPL (I won't have any/many of these hours). Get some sleep, save some money.
I would be grateful for any pointers that people more in the know could give me. The money isn't too much of a problem, but I'll be hour-building every weekend, evening etc to achieve this - not ideal.
Cheers!
Opinion 1: I'm so close to getting the full licence, I might as well put the extra work in and go for it.
Opinion 2: there's no point, a CPL/IR will be perfectly employable when I come to look for a job due to the 500hr multi-crew multi-engine JAR requirement for ATPL (I won't have any/many of these hours). Get some sleep, save some money.
I would be grateful for any pointers that people more in the know could give me. The money isn't too much of a problem, but I'll be hour-building every weekend, evening etc to achieve this - not ideal.
Cheers!
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As far as I am aware......You have grandfather rights! I phoned the CAA to ask the very same question. They did point me towards their web site. On the Flight Crew Licencing section it has a FAQ's section..I think it is in there.
Good Luck.
Eff Oh.
Good Luck.
Eff Oh.
Guest
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Splosh,
I'm not clear as to what you are asking, but have you explored the posibility of changing to a JAR CPL + IR. This then gives you a rolling 7 years (from last IR renewal) to upgrade to an ATPL, I guess due to the 500 hour multi crew requirement.
Looks like my way out of the current mess, and I'm in a similar position to you. My fear is that the Gatwick mob are prone to changing things almost at will without warning or notification, and as far as I'm concerned, nothing is guranteed.
PS (fingers crossed)
I'm not clear as to what you are asking, but have you explored the posibility of changing to a JAR CPL + IR. This then gives you a rolling 7 years (from last IR renewal) to upgrade to an ATPL, I guess due to the 500 hour multi crew requirement.
Looks like my way out of the current mess, and I'm in a similar position to you. My fear is that the Gatwick mob are prone to changing things almost at will without warning or notification, and as far as I'm concerned, nothing is guranteed.
PS (fingers crossed)
Guest
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Splosh,
Make some calculations : if U fly an average of 4h per w-e (considering U probably won't be able to fly each & every w-e), that would give U an extra 200h by the end of June 2002. Is it what U're missing to de-freeze ?
If so, I'd go for it. If U need a lot more than that, it may indeed be wiser to save some money for now. The magic number most airlines are looking for is 1,000, so if U already have that, U're in good shape even with a CPL-IR "only".
MF55
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Eff Oh - I think we only have grandfather rights if we have the licence in the first place, ie you can't get a JAA ATPL with CAA CPL. Sadly! But thanks for the pointer to the CAA website, I haven't been there for a while and they've added a lot of useful gen.
P_s - I'm asking whether I _need_ to hour-build (dull dull dull) to get the ATPL, or am I wasting my time when a CPL will be employable in a few years' time. I'm unlikely to get (m)any multi hours in the next 7 years, so the rolling upgrade thingy with a JAR CPL won't help. Boo. As for the CAA's changes, they've left us all upset at some time or another, I'm sure!
MF55 - I wake up in a cold sweat from the calculation_nightmare most nights! I'm going to be somewhere between 200 and 250 hours short, so as you say it is do-able.
Thanks for your help guys, I'll press on for the meanwhile then. Good luck with your own licencing demons!
P_s - I'm asking whether I _need_ to hour-build (dull dull dull) to get the ATPL, or am I wasting my time when a CPL will be employable in a few years' time. I'm unlikely to get (m)any multi hours in the next 7 years, so the rolling upgrade thingy with a JAR CPL won't help. Boo. As for the CAA's changes, they've left us all upset at some time or another, I'm sure!
MF55 - I wake up in a cold sweat from the calculation_nightmare most nights! I'm going to be somewhere between 200 and 250 hours short, so as you say it is do-able.
Thanks for your help guys, I'll press on for the meanwhile then. Good luck with your own licencing demons!
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Eff Oh
I have some specific questions relating to my current position which I won't bore everyone else with. The only CAA web site I can find is www.caa.co.uk and is very non specific. Could you post back or email me the url.
Many thanks.
I have some specific questions relating to my current position which I won't bore everyone else with. The only CAA web site I can find is www.caa.co.uk and is very non specific. Could you post back or email me the url.
Many thanks.
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Guest
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Splosh,
I'd check out the requirements for ATPL issue vary carefuly, particularily with night and intrument hour requirements. I need just under 200, but of those nearly half have to be night, and that's the problem. I've done over 400 in year in the past without instructing, so I know I could get the 1500 at a push, but short of flying all night in winter (not a prospect I would relish in a single), I cannot see a way to make the hours up.
Have fun doing it.
PS
I'd check out the requirements for ATPL issue vary carefuly, particularily with night and intrument hour requirements. I need just under 200, but of those nearly half have to be night, and that's the problem. I've done over 400 in year in the past without instructing, so I know I could get the 1500 at a push, but short of flying all night in winter (not a prospect I would relish in a single), I cannot see a way to make the hours up.
Have fun doing it.
PS
Guest
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I'm in a similar position...I think
950hrs all single, uk ATPL exams passed perfA and valid IR. [frozen ATPL]
CAA website says by converting my CAA CPL to a JAR one I can get my first multi pilot type endorsed but my JAR licence will be issued without JAR theory credit.Does this mean I can never hold a JAR ATPL without further exams and hence no possible command ?
Any comments
W T V V
950hrs all single, uk ATPL exams passed perfA and valid IR. [frozen ATPL]
CAA website says by converting my CAA CPL to a JAR one I can get my first multi pilot type endorsed but my JAR licence will be issued without JAR theory credit.Does this mean I can never hold a JAR ATPL without further exams and hence no possible command ?
Any comments
W T V V
Guest
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wtvv,
My understanding is that you should be able to convert to the JAA equivalent of a frozen ATPL. In order to unfreeze it, there is an extra requirement (at the moment) of 500 hours multicrew, so they have also allowed you 7 years to gain that. I've not heard this thing about loosing theory credits, but if thats the case I'll stick pen to paper and get it in writing from the jury at Gatwick.
PS
My understanding is that you should be able to convert to the JAA equivalent of a frozen ATPL. In order to unfreeze it, there is an extra requirement (at the moment) of 500 hours multicrew, so they have also allowed you 7 years to gain that. I've not heard this thing about loosing theory credits, but if thats the case I'll stick pen to paper and get it in writing from the jury at Gatwick.
PS
Guest
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RVR and Polar Stereo
Thank you very much for the info. I was reading GID 36 note 4 from the CAA website which mentions losing the ATPL credit if you have less than 500 multi crew.I did not realise I had 7 years to gain the 500 multi crew.I presume this 'note 4' I was reading just applies to those who do not obtain 500 multi crew within the 7 year period.
Thanks again , W T V V
Thank you very much for the info. I was reading GID 36 note 4 from the CAA website which mentions losing the ATPL credit if you have less than 500 multi crew.I did not realise I had 7 years to gain the 500 multi crew.I presume this 'note 4' I was reading just applies to those who do not obtain 500 multi crew within the 7 year period.
Thanks again , W T V V
Guest
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RVR 800 I agree.
I have UK CPL/IR (Frozen ATPL)and 980 hours. My understanding is that when I have accumulated 500 hours multi-crew, necessary night hours etc. I will be eligible for the issue of a JAA ATPL. There is no limit on the length of validity of the CAA ATPL exams.
I have UK CPL/IR (Frozen ATPL)and 980 hours. My understanding is that when I have accumulated 500 hours multi-crew, necessary night hours etc. I will be eligible for the issue of a JAA ATPL. There is no limit on the length of validity of the CAA ATPL exams.
Guest
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All,
I'm let to understand that another good reason to convert to the JAA licence is that you get a rolling 7 years from your last IR renewal to unfreeze the ATPL. IE, every time you renew your IR, you get another 7 years.
Usual caveats regarding moving goal posts apply.
PS
I'm let to understand that another good reason to convert to the JAA licence is that you get a rolling 7 years from your last IR renewal to unfreeze the ATPL. IE, every time you renew your IR, you get another 7 years.
Usual caveats regarding moving goal posts apply.
PS
Guest
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Dear all, and P_S in particular...
Does anyone know where this 7 year deadline to get JAR ATPL from CAA ATPL issue is written down? Anywhere on the web?
Does this mean that, assuming I get a CAA ATPL and they don't move the goalposts in the meantime ("CAA ATPLs will cease to exist as of next year" etc), I need to get the 500hr multi in 7 years from CAA ATPL issue? Which I won't. So I might as well not bother with the CAA ATPL, just stick to my CPL/IR (fATPL).
Just a thought.
!
Does anyone know where this 7 year deadline to get JAR ATPL from CAA ATPL issue is written down? Anywhere on the web?
Does this mean that, assuming I get a CAA ATPL and they don't move the goalposts in the meantime ("CAA ATPLs will cease to exist as of next year" etc), I need to get the 500hr multi in 7 years from CAA ATPL issue? Which I won't. So I might as well not bother with the CAA ATPL, just stick to my CPL/IR (fATPL).
Just a thought.
!
Guest
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Splosh,
In answer to your question, I don't think this is written down. It's a bit like a secret map to navigate around a mine field.
As I understand it, it's an 'implied' solution, which also worries me with the current wobbly goal posts. What they have said is that you can convert a current CPL IR to a JAR CPL/IR (R). If you have more than 500 P1 (I think), they will remove the restriction (R). The ATPL written passes are also credited to you, and remain valid for 7 years from your last IR renewal. This is in the JAR stuff.
Hope it helps. My advice if you are worried about it is to write to them directly, asking for answers to your specific questions, and also asking them not to send you the answers with a compliment slip attached to AIC's. Give me an email address and I can give you a name of someone to send your stuff to in person. Works for me.
PS - usual caveates apply.
In answer to your question, I don't think this is written down. It's a bit like a secret map to navigate around a mine field.
As I understand it, it's an 'implied' solution, which also worries me with the current wobbly goal posts. What they have said is that you can convert a current CPL IR to a JAR CPL/IR (R). If you have more than 500 P1 (I think), they will remove the restriction (R). The ATPL written passes are also credited to you, and remain valid for 7 years from your last IR renewal. This is in the JAR stuff.
Hope it helps. My advice if you are worried about it is to write to them directly, asking for answers to your specific questions, and also asking them not to send you the answers with a compliment slip attached to AIC's. Give me an email address and I can give you a name of someone to send your stuff to in person. Works for me.
PS - usual caveates apply.
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No! From what I have learned p2 hours now count as 1.0 hours, you also need around 100 hours night!Go to the CAA website and have a look at ATPL requirements. If YOU have 1500 hundred hours with a proportion night you may be pleasently surprised!!!