Unfreezing ATPL
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Unfreezing that "Frozen ATPL"
I'd appreciate some thoughts on the following question ...
If I remember correctly, a new JAA CPL+IR (fATPL) holder has up to seven years to fulfil the experience requirements to "unfreeze" their licence.
The great majority of my friends and colleagues are "still looking" (6 - 12 months out of flight school) and the lucky ones are very pleased to be para-dropping / doing aerial photo surveys etc. Personally I am looking forward to instructing.
BUT - what does this do to the "unfreezing of the fATPL" ?.
Most "flying jobs" should allow people to complete their 1,500 hours required, including 100 hours night (can't remember all the other splits within the 1,500 - instrument flying time ?) BUT - what about the 500 hours multi-crew time that people need to have ?.
If at the end of the 7 (?) years, what happens to their licence and what are they supposed to do if they still wish to "unfreeze" ...
I don't recall anything in LASORS about this. Probably no one is up to a seventh anniversary of a JAA licence yet ...
THANKS FOR ANY INFO. ON THIS
D 129
If I remember correctly, a new JAA CPL+IR (fATPL) holder has up to seven years to fulfil the experience requirements to "unfreeze" their licence.
The great majority of my friends and colleagues are "still looking" (6 - 12 months out of flight school) and the lucky ones are very pleased to be para-dropping / doing aerial photo surveys etc. Personally I am looking forward to instructing.
BUT - what does this do to the "unfreezing of the fATPL" ?.
Most "flying jobs" should allow people to complete their 1,500 hours required, including 100 hours night (can't remember all the other splits within the 1,500 - instrument flying time ?) BUT - what about the 500 hours multi-crew time that people need to have ?.
If at the end of the 7 (?) years, what happens to their licence and what are they supposed to do if they still wish to "unfreeze" ...
I don't recall anything in LASORS about this. Probably no one is up to a seventh anniversary of a JAA licence yet ...
THANKS FOR ANY INFO. ON THIS
D 129
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D 129,
The seven years you are referring to have to do with the validity of the ATPL ground exams.
However, this validity period does not simply run from the date you passed them, but gets 'renewed' every time you renew your instrument rating. So it is seven years since your last IR renewal. As long as you keep your IR going you never lose the ATPL ground exam credits.
Hope this explains.
Gerard
The seven years you are referring to have to do with the validity of the ATPL ground exams.
However, this validity period does not simply run from the date you passed them, but gets 'renewed' every time you renew your instrument rating. So it is seven years since your last IR renewal. As long as you keep your IR going you never lose the ATPL ground exam credits.
Hope this explains.
Gerard
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You have to get all the issue requirements.
ie 500 hours multi crew
100hours night etc.
Then you have to do a LPC which is a multi crew IR renewal for you aircraft type.
Then you fill out the paper work send them lots of money and yet another license lands on your door step to add to the collection.
MJ
ie 500 hours multi crew
100hours night etc.
Then you have to do a LPC which is a multi crew IR renewal for you aircraft type.
Then you fill out the paper work send them lots of money and yet another license lands on your door step to add to the collection.
MJ
Then you have to do a LPC which is a multi crew IR renewal for you aircraft type.
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Well the only thing you do is stick the date of your LPC after you have met all the requirments on the form.
The TRE dosn't have to be told you are going to use that LPC for this purpose and they don't have to submit any paper work to the CAA apart from the normal LPC IR renewal paper work which has no place on it to say it was an ATPL flight test.
From what I gather the only reason why its on the ATPL form is to show willing to JAR as some members states require a flight test.
So as such there is no ATPL skills test for a holder of a UK JAR cpl wishing to upgrade to an ATPL.
MJ
The TRE dosn't have to be told you are going to use that LPC for this purpose and they don't have to submit any paper work to the CAA apart from the normal LPC IR renewal paper work which has no place on it to say it was an ATPL flight test.
From what I gather the only reason why its on the ATPL form is to show willing to JAR as some members states require a flight test.
So as such there is no ATPL skills test for a holder of a UK JAR cpl wishing to upgrade to an ATPL.
MJ
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Sounds to me like we're splitting hairs!
Anyway, in addition to the 500 hours multi-crew and 100 hours night that MJ has already mentioned, you also need 1500 hours total time. There are also requirements for P1 time, cross country time, instrument time Best place to look for full details is LASORS, section G.
IRRenewal (appropriate name, btw!) has stated that the 7 years' exam validity runs from the date of the IR renewal, which is correct. He hasn't said that if you let this validity lapse by not renewing your IR for over 7 years, you have to do all the written exams again - gulp!
FFF
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Anyway, in addition to the 500 hours multi-crew and 100 hours night that MJ has already mentioned, you also need 1500 hours total time. There are also requirements for P1 time, cross country time, instrument time Best place to look for full details is LASORS, section G.
IRRenewal (appropriate name, btw!) has stated that the 7 years' exam validity runs from the date of the IR renewal, which is correct. He hasn't said that if you let this validity lapse by not renewing your IR for over 7 years, you have to do all the written exams again - gulp!
FFF
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Its not really splitting hairs FFF.
The swedish ATPL flight test is a kin to a command assesment which is flown from the LHS with MEL calls, Flight ops problems and the like as well as the normal in flight stuff. Followed by an oral on the A1 and B1 for your aircraft and company.
The lpc is just a standard IR renewal on type with a captain sitting next to you.
MJ
The swedish ATPL flight test is a kin to a command assesment which is flown from the LHS with MEL calls, Flight ops problems and the like as well as the normal in flight stuff. Followed by an oral on the A1 and B1 for your aircraft and company.
The lpc is just a standard IR renewal on type with a captain sitting next to you.
MJ
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IRRenewal (appropriate name, btw!) has stated that the 7 years' exam validity runs from the date of the IR renewal, which is correct. He hasn't said that if you let this validity lapse by not renewing your IR for over 7 years, you have to do all the written exams again - gulp!
As long as you keep your IR going you never lose the ATPL ground exam credits.
BTW, a year before you lose the ATPL credits you will lose your IR and will have to renew with CAAFU. Something else to look forward to (if you let it get that far that is).
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Many thanks to everyone for the replies.
So it looks like my friends and I would be wise to keep our IRs current !.
If we do so (or ensure that we do within 6 years) then we keep our options open for "one day" meeting all those unfreezing requirements.
Cheers,
D129
So it looks like my friends and I would be wise to keep our IRs current !.
If we do so (or ensure that we do within 6 years) then we keep our options open for "one day" meeting all those unfreezing requirements.
Cheers,
D129
And what happens, come licence re-issue time, if you already hold a JAR-FCL ATPL(A), but decided not to revalidate the IR as it's not needed for your commercial aerial work activity?
Why do it if it's not fun?
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BEagle,
My understanding is that if your IR lapses by more than 7 years, your ATPL becomes invalid and you revert back to CPL privileges, and you would need to resit the exams in order to regain it. But I haven't seen that written down anywhere... it's what I was told by one of my FIC instructors (who, as a retired B747 captain who didn't imagine he'd ever need to use his IR again, was in almost exactly that position except his ATPL was a UK one, not a JAR one).
I'm surprised that you're asking the question, though - I'd expect you to know the answer! So please correct me if I'm wrong!
FFF
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My understanding is that if your IR lapses by more than 7 years, your ATPL becomes invalid and you revert back to CPL privileges, and you would need to resit the exams in order to regain it. But I haven't seen that written down anywhere... it's what I was told by one of my FIC instructors (who, as a retired B747 captain who didn't imagine he'd ever need to use his IR again, was in almost exactly that position except his ATPL was a UK one, not a JAR one).
I'm surprised that you're asking the question, though - I'd expect you to know the answer! So please correct me if I'm wrong!
FFF
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AFAIK, the rules state an IR is required for issue. Can't think of any rule that specifies losing ATPL privileges once the IR lapses.
Possibly a problem when it's time to renew the licence since you're in effect having it issued again.
Possibly a problem when it's time to renew the licence since you're in effect having it issued again.
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Requirements to unfreeze ATPL
Can any of you guys tell me if the 100 hours of night flying is still a requirement to unfreeze an ATPL.
I almost have the 500 hours of multi crew and have over 1800 hours total.
I cant find this information on the CAA's website.
I almost have the 500 hours of multi crew and have over 1800 hours total.
I cant find this information on the CAA's website.
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Yes the 100 hours is a requirement to unfreeze the ATPL still. The information is all contained in the latest edition of LASSORS which is available at the CAA wesbite at:
http://www.caa.co.uk/publications/pu...ls.asp?id=1191
Hope this helps.
A.H.
http://www.caa.co.uk/publications/pu...ls.asp?id=1191
Hope this helps.
A.H.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Yes....
However, I think (and someone may correct me) that it had to be 100 hours of P1 night under CAA rules. But under JAR rules it doesn't need to be P1 - which makes it a little easier!
FFF
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However, I think (and someone may correct me) that it had to be 100 hours of P1 night under CAA rules. But under JAR rules it doesn't need to be P1 - which makes it a little easier!
FFF
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FFF
I reckon you are correct - JAR requires 100 hours night experience, as oppose to 100 hours P.1
Under the old CAA rules not even "under supervision" [P.1/S] was counted towards the requirement.
I reckon you are correct - JAR requires 100 hours night experience, as oppose to 100 hours P.1
Under the old CAA rules not even "under supervision" [P.1/S] was counted towards the requirement.
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Requirements to unfreeze the ATPL?
I have a couple of hundred hours to go till I can unfreeze my license. Can anyone point me towards the correct documents listing the exact criteria for unfreezing the ATPL?
I did a search on the CAA website but couldnt find what I was looking for.
Thanks
I did a search on the CAA website but couldnt find what I was looking for.
Thanks
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Unfreezing ATPL
Hello...
i have a UK CPL frozen ATPL valid till mid 2008 . all the ground school exams which are done in 2003 were credited for the frozen ATPL.
now i have +1500 of flying hours on jet aircraft (airbus) .
the question is ...what do i need to to change my UK CPL frozen ATPL to normal UK ATPL .
do i need re take the ground school exams again ....or it is only a paper work .
thanks
i have a UK CPL frozen ATPL valid till mid 2008 . all the ground school exams which are done in 2003 were credited for the frozen ATPL.
now i have +1500 of flying hours on jet aircraft (airbus) .
the question is ...what do i need to to change my UK CPL frozen ATPL to normal UK ATPL .
do i need re take the ground school exams again ....or it is only a paper work .
thanks