Flight Safety Academy? (Merged Feb '09)
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Flight Safety Academy? (Merged Feb '09)
Just got a pile of stuff through the door from Flight safety in vero beach and couldnt believe how expensive there FAA Professional courses are. Private/Commercial/Instument/Multi Engine and Instructors ratings with 250 hours....$60445!!!!! Is there any reason why this is so expensive compared to down the road at Phoenix East, same course for $35000.
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I gather Flight Safety is the stateside equivalent of OATS - trading on a brand name??!! (surely not!)
You see them pop up all over Florida in their smartly painted Warriors, wearing their snazzy uniforms.
I've seen the FS blurb, and find the highly earnest references to Microsoft Flight Simulator highly amusing!
You see them pop up all over Florida in their smartly painted Warriors, wearing their snazzy uniforms.
I've seen the FS blurb, and find the highly earnest references to Microsoft Flight Simulator highly amusing!
Last edited by Gin Slinger; 13th Aug 2002 at 19:55.
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llesson - you answered the question yourself really - as far as the VERO BEACH ACADEMY is concerned, it is no better than many other FAA flight schools (and a lot worse than some).
For AFTER market training (i.e. type ratings) FSI is probably the World leader - for the Vero Academy - nah (save your money).
For AFTER market training (i.e. type ratings) FSI is probably the World leader - for the Vero Academy - nah (save your money).
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I went to FSI @ Vero. You get what you pay for...if you can afford the extra $$$ go for it. And, does it cost more? You GET MORE than at other schools (CRM, Spin/Unusual Attitude Recovery etc.), their instructor selection process is a lot tougher than elsewhere (do you want an instructor who got their CFI ratings in a couple of weeks or over several months of thorough training?), the maintenance and plane availability is first class and the facilities are excellent. And, if you get a job right out of school with only your commercial/instrument/multi because FSI is on your resume it is worth the $$$ right?
FSI has a formidable (and deserved) reputation in the industry and that alone is worth a couple of dollars!
Just my opinion...
FSI has a formidable (and deserved) reputation in the industry and that alone is worth a couple of dollars!Just my opinion...
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For those who learned to fly there - can I ask what personal experience you have of other schools doing the same course .
FSI do, indeed, have astunning reputation for after market training - the Academy is not really better than numerous other, cheaper, outfits.
FSI do, indeed, have astunning reputation for after market training - the Academy is not really better than numerous other, cheaper, outfits.
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Hi everybody!
Dear Haaron, I shouldn't call 25000$ a "couple of dollars" as you say. In this academy, I guess they ask for a big deposit, which I DO NOT recommend anybody to do, even somebody tells you all good about the school, everybody hashis own experience, don't get stuck somewhere because of the money. I did my private in a school around L.A(I heard that we have to avoid naming the schools), where they rent plane, and the instructors are freelance, no deposit, you don't like the guy, you take another one..., the instructor was awesome. OK, it took me more than 50 hours to go to the check ride, the chief instructor desn't joke with the stage checks (it's harder to pass him than the check ried itself),I flew in class B airspace couple of times, landed in Class C airport, stalls and steep turns under the hood, visited a FSS, he showed me ILS approach... and many others, landed in I paid only about 5000$, and I know that to get the comm-Multi-IFR, minimum cost part 141 was about 16000$ (so finally should be about 20000$), add,mmm, let's be totally crazy, let's say 4000$ for the CFI, that's 24000$...we are far away from the 60000$ of Vero Beach, and OK may be you have FSI on your record, but I was just thinking: 60000$-24000$ = 38000$ = >200 hours of Multi, so I think if one day I decide to pay 60000$ to get my commercial, I would choose a cheaper one and pay time block to build up time in multi....
Dear Haaron, I shouldn't call 25000$ a "couple of dollars" as you say. In this academy, I guess they ask for a big deposit, which I DO NOT recommend anybody to do, even somebody tells you all good about the school, everybody hashis own experience, don't get stuck somewhere because of the money. I did my private in a school around L.A(I heard that we have to avoid naming the schools), where they rent plane, and the instructors are freelance, no deposit, you don't like the guy, you take another one..., the instructor was awesome. OK, it took me more than 50 hours to go to the check ride, the chief instructor desn't joke with the stage checks (it's harder to pass him than the check ried itself),I flew in class B airspace couple of times, landed in Class C airport, stalls and steep turns under the hood, visited a FSS, he showed me ILS approach... and many others, landed in I paid only about 5000$, and I know that to get the comm-Multi-IFR, minimum cost part 141 was about 16000$ (so finally should be about 20000$), add,mmm, let's be totally crazy, let's say 4000$ for the CFI, that's 24000$...we are far away from the 60000$ of Vero Beach, and OK may be you have FSI on your record, but I was just thinking: 60000$-24000$ = 38000$ = >200 hours of Multi, so I think if one day I decide to pay 60000$ to get my commercial, I would choose a cheaper one and pay time block to build up time in multi....
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Well, the inflation rate must be soaring cause when I left FSI in Dec 2000 I had paid 30,000. I didn't do any CFI courses though. If I had have done my CFI's and been hired by FSI they would have reimbursed much of the CFI cost. There was no big deposit, however if you had no money in your account of course you couldn't fly.
Just be sure to compare apples with apples. Almost all my time at FSI was multi; the entire instrument course is done in the Seminole. Much more realistic and challenging than a C172! At the 'cheaper' schools you graduate with the minimum hours required for the multi rating (something like 10!) and the rest is single engine time...
Oh, and if you want to talk figures, I left school in December, got a job in January 2001 and have been working ever since. Someone I know went to a less expensive school before I went to FSI, came back long after me and didn't get a job till early 2002! Basically, they lost a whole years salary so who really paid more?!
Oh and by the way Doudou $60,000-$24,000=$36,000 not $38,000...and a chief pilot for a regional once told me 'bought time' doesn't get you many points! And, for that $20,000 how much spin training/unusual attitude work would you get (something important that is missing from the curriculum of many places). What was the CRM course like?
Choice of school is a very personal thing. If I had my time over I would go back to FSI. That doesn't mean there aren't other better, cheaper places, like I said before, just my opinion!
It is just like further education. Do you want to go to a community college or an Ivy League school? Gather all the information, think it over, then pick whatever floats your boat!!!
Just be sure to compare apples with apples. Almost all my time at FSI was multi; the entire instrument course is done in the Seminole. Much more realistic and challenging than a C172! At the 'cheaper' schools you graduate with the minimum hours required for the multi rating (something like 10!) and the rest is single engine time...
Oh, and if you want to talk figures, I left school in December, got a job in January 2001 and have been working ever since. Someone I know went to a less expensive school before I went to FSI, came back long after me and didn't get a job till early 2002! Basically, they lost a whole years salary so who really paid more?!
Oh and by the way Doudou $60,000-$24,000=$36,000 not $38,000...and a chief pilot for a regional once told me 'bought time' doesn't get you many points! And, for that $20,000 how much spin training/unusual attitude work would you get (something important that is missing from the curriculum of many places). What was the CRM course like?
Choice of school is a very personal thing. If I had my time over I would go back to FSI. That doesn't mean there aren't other better, cheaper places, like I said before, just my opinion!
It is just like further education. Do you want to go to a community college or an Ivy League school? Gather all the information, think it over, then pick whatever floats your boat!!!
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GoneWest - unless you count the months of research into just about every school in the US that I put in before I made my choice, no I don't have experience of other schools - I got it right the first time! However, there were many people at FSI who had started their training elsewhere and had come to finish up! Wonder why...
See ya later guys!
See ya later guys!
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If you like being a number, then these schools are where to go.
If you like personal attention, avoid like the plague.
Yes, these schools are good at the overall image, especially like Gone West said for after market training ie types, however the time to complete if often far longer, the scheduling very inflexible, and the groundschool goes only as fast as the slowest person.
In my class I had a person for CFI that had not flown in 25 years; I slept most of the course having just passed my Commercial, as we reviewed the basic basics! Not time either my colleagues or myself would have chosen! We would have preferred to spend the extra time on more challenging items! Passed first time mind, but could have got the same time and ground elsewhere for a great deal less spent on accommodation and ground. The problem is the rigidity of the course. The big schools are not flexible!
If you like personal attention, avoid like the plague.
Yes, these schools are good at the overall image, especially like Gone West said for after market training ie types, however the time to complete if often far longer, the scheduling very inflexible, and the groundschool goes only as fast as the slowest person.
In my class I had a person for CFI that had not flown in 25 years; I slept most of the course having just passed my Commercial, as we reviewed the basic basics! Not time either my colleagues or myself would have chosen! We would have preferred to spend the extra time on more challenging items! Passed first time mind, but could have got the same time and ground elsewhere for a great deal less spent on accommodation and ground. The problem is the rigidity of the course. The big schools are not flexible!
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Haaron,
Sorry for my maths.
Second, i didn't say that bought time was great, actually I wanted to say that 60 000$ is to expensive anyway, especially right now.
About the manoeuvre, nothing tells you not to take lessons with an aerobatic manoeuvers instructor instead of doing just P.I.C flying in a C-152, won't coast much more.
And about job, you're right, it's great to be hired direct after school, but what I see about some pilots, they don't wanna take any jobs, go make a quick formation and tow banners, or throw some sky divers, I'm not saying your totally wrong, if you have 36000$ too much in your account, go for it, but we are not a lot in this case, and what I really don't think is that you're getting out better pilot from FSI than some other school, so my conclusion is your more or less paying 36000$ to get hired, wich point of view can be understandable, but anyway, I don't have this money, and the most important is you're happy with your choice
Sorry for my maths.
Second, i didn't say that bought time was great, actually I wanted to say that 60 000$ is to expensive anyway, especially right now.
About the manoeuvre, nothing tells you not to take lessons with an aerobatic manoeuvers instructor instead of doing just P.I.C flying in a C-152, won't coast much more.
And about job, you're right, it's great to be hired direct after school, but what I see about some pilots, they don't wanna take any jobs, go make a quick formation and tow banners, or throw some sky divers, I'm not saying your totally wrong, if you have 36000$ too much in your account, go for it, but we are not a lot in this case, and what I really don't think is that you're getting out better pilot from FSI than some other school, so my conclusion is your more or less paying 36000$ to get hired, wich point of view can be understandable, but anyway, I don't have this money, and the most important is you're happy with your choice
Hard to resist
OK, I know I shouldn't take the bait but there are just a few un-informed remarks that have been made here. And I think I'm in a good position to answer a few of the questions.
I did my CAA PPL at Wycombe 6 years ago, and swore that it was just going to be a hobby. But like everyone else the bug bit and didn't let go. I decided to go the FAA way for reasons that I won't go into here, but suffice to say I'm happy that I did. So, I made a bunch of enquiries with different schools throughout the US and decided to get my FAA training at a flightschool near Miami. I looked at FSI but like everyone else had a heart attack when I saw the prices. At the time I couldn't justify the extra expense. I paid for all my training after spending 2 years saving for it.
The school I did my training at was by no means the best but, there were a few Brits and I had a patient and hard working instructor that made the difference. I was most definitely the student from hell, no patience and got angry with myself when I screwed up. Anyway I got my CPL/IR, Multi and all my instructor ratings. I started working there the week after my CFII ride and stayed for 6 months. I can't say I was flying a hell of a lot and certainly wasn't getting paid well, so I decided to try something else.
At the time FSI were losing a lot of instructors to ASA and COEX, which meant they dropped their mins to 700TT and 400 as a CFI. I just had the times so decided to give them a shot and somehow got the job. I've been here for the last 2.5 years, although I'm about to move on and hope I can give an unbiased view about them.
First off, there's no denying the expense. It is EXTREMELY expensive but there are a few things worth noting. The Flightsafety name does count in the US and to a certain extent overseas. I do the 141 checkrides, so I get to speak to students at all levels of their training and always ask why they chose FSI. More often than not, they say they spoke to an airline pilot, who recommended it. Maybe they recommend FSI Vero Beach because of the reputation of the Sim Centers around the world. Who knows? But remember for the price, you're going to do your instrument and CPL training in a 2002 PA-44.
The maintenance is first class. Not only are all the aircraft serviced every 60 hours but have the equivalent of an annual every 180 hours. Unless you've flown at a small school or even an FBO, you might not know just how unsafe some of those training planes are out there. I know it's not unsafe everywhere else, but I've got my own horror stories and I've heard plenty others. If you ask to be shown around the maintenace hangar you'll find a clean, bright hangar where you can stop any of the mecahnics and ask questions. That in itself was something that impressed me when I strated working here. At the school I'd been at before, the instructors had to justify every squawk and you didn't go near the hangar, unless you wanted to get shouted at.
We may not all be the best intructors in the world, but there are some outstandng one's and if you don't like your instructor there are plenty to chose from. The support for the instructors in terms of teaching materials and classrooms is good and far better than most.
I'm not actually the biggest fan of FSI as an employee, but I think you're going to be hard pressed to find another school of the same size, where as a student, you can get the same all in one deal. Yes, you may get better training at another school, with another instructor. But that may be luck, at least here you can pick and choose. You will certainly get a LOT of multi time as an instructor here. I got 700 hours of twin time in 9 months.
I'm sure there will be those that will pick this to bits, but these are my observations given that I didn't do my training at FSI and have worked at other flight schools. It certainly isn't for everyone, given the red tape and regimented way everything is done. So have a look at all the equivalent schools, ATA, Comair and Pan-Am. Ask lots of questions and only then decide what's best for you.
I did my CAA PPL at Wycombe 6 years ago, and swore that it was just going to be a hobby. But like everyone else the bug bit and didn't let go. I decided to go the FAA way for reasons that I won't go into here, but suffice to say I'm happy that I did. So, I made a bunch of enquiries with different schools throughout the US and decided to get my FAA training at a flightschool near Miami. I looked at FSI but like everyone else had a heart attack when I saw the prices. At the time I couldn't justify the extra expense. I paid for all my training after spending 2 years saving for it.
The school I did my training at was by no means the best but, there were a few Brits and I had a patient and hard working instructor that made the difference. I was most definitely the student from hell, no patience and got angry with myself when I screwed up. Anyway I got my CPL/IR, Multi and all my instructor ratings. I started working there the week after my CFII ride and stayed for 6 months. I can't say I was flying a hell of a lot and certainly wasn't getting paid well, so I decided to try something else.
At the time FSI were losing a lot of instructors to ASA and COEX, which meant they dropped their mins to 700TT and 400 as a CFI. I just had the times so decided to give them a shot and somehow got the job. I've been here for the last 2.5 years, although I'm about to move on and hope I can give an unbiased view about them.
First off, there's no denying the expense. It is EXTREMELY expensive but there are a few things worth noting. The Flightsafety name does count in the US and to a certain extent overseas. I do the 141 checkrides, so I get to speak to students at all levels of their training and always ask why they chose FSI. More often than not, they say they spoke to an airline pilot, who recommended it. Maybe they recommend FSI Vero Beach because of the reputation of the Sim Centers around the world. Who knows? But remember for the price, you're going to do your instrument and CPL training in a 2002 PA-44.
The maintenance is first class. Not only are all the aircraft serviced every 60 hours but have the equivalent of an annual every 180 hours. Unless you've flown at a small school or even an FBO, you might not know just how unsafe some of those training planes are out there. I know it's not unsafe everywhere else, but I've got my own horror stories and I've heard plenty others. If you ask to be shown around the maintenace hangar you'll find a clean, bright hangar where you can stop any of the mecahnics and ask questions. That in itself was something that impressed me when I strated working here. At the school I'd been at before, the instructors had to justify every squawk and you didn't go near the hangar, unless you wanted to get shouted at.
We may not all be the best intructors in the world, but there are some outstandng one's and if you don't like your instructor there are plenty to chose from. The support for the instructors in terms of teaching materials and classrooms is good and far better than most.
I'm not actually the biggest fan of FSI as an employee, but I think you're going to be hard pressed to find another school of the same size, where as a student, you can get the same all in one deal. Yes, you may get better training at another school, with another instructor. But that may be luck, at least here you can pick and choose. You will certainly get a LOT of multi time as an instructor here. I got 700 hours of twin time in 9 months.
I'm sure there will be those that will pick this to bits, but these are my observations given that I didn't do my training at FSI and have worked at other flight schools. It certainly isn't for everyone, given the red tape and regimented way everything is done. So have a look at all the equivalent schools, ATA, Comair and Pan-Am. Ask lots of questions and only then decide what's best for you.
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Apparently I went to FSI at Vero (Zero) Beach in 1997 but spent the next few months in a drunken haze stumbling out of good old Bombay Louis and the River Side...
Argh I can smell it now.
PS - dont stay in room 110 unless you have an unhealthy liking for fire ants.
Argh I can smell it now.
PS - dont stay in room 110 unless you have an unhealthy liking for fire ants.
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Flight Safety International - is it worth the money?
I have been looking at Flight Safety International as a possible school for my education. But it's a very high price compared to other schools, and it's know that you pay for the name.
It's worth it?
Will it be easier to get a job in US/Canada if they can see that you took your license at FSI?
It's worth it?
Will it be easier to get a job in US/Canada if they can see that you took your license at FSI?
Last edited by SAS-A321; 18th Sep 2002 at 11:41.
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Which flight training (flight safety/ Naples or IFTA)
Hi,
I'm trying to decide which school to go to for professional flight training. I have a shortlist and would like comments from people who have checked them out and or attended. specifically,
Flight Safety
ITFA
Delta connection
Naples
Ideally I would like to come away with both FAA and JAA only IFTA offers this combined approach as far as I know.
I'm trying to decide which school to go to for professional flight training. I have a shortlist and would like comments from people who have checked them out and or attended. specifically,
Flight Safety
ITFA
Delta connection
Naples
Ideally I would like to come away with both FAA and JAA only IFTA offers this combined approach as far as I know.
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ATPL at Flight Safety, Florida
Hi all,
I am based in the UK and am currently looking at all the possible options for a JAA ATPL.
It seems that one of the cheapest ways to do it (in terms of the number of hours TT achievable) is to get an FAA-ATPL plus an FAA-CFI/CFII at somewhere like Flight Safety International and then build your hours as an instructor after graduating. (FSI claim up to a 1000 can be done before your J1 visa expires) Finally, you go home and convert to it to a JAA licence.
My questions:
1. Has any Brit or EU citizen managed to do this?
2. If so, what pitfalls are there?
3. Is there still a market for instructors in Florida post 9/11?
4. How much can you realistically earn during your time as an instructor?
4. If not, are there other US schools approved to offer the same courses but who have more would-be students to cater to?
Any and all replies most welcome!
Happy flying...
Birky ([email protected])
I am based in the UK and am currently looking at all the possible options for a JAA ATPL.
It seems that one of the cheapest ways to do it (in terms of the number of hours TT achievable) is to get an FAA-ATPL plus an FAA-CFI/CFII at somewhere like Flight Safety International and then build your hours as an instructor after graduating. (FSI claim up to a 1000 can be done before your J1 visa expires) Finally, you go home and convert to it to a JAA licence.
My questions:
1. Has any Brit or EU citizen managed to do this?
2. If so, what pitfalls are there?
3. Is there still a market for instructors in Florida post 9/11?
4. How much can you realistically earn during your time as an instructor?
4. If not, are there other US schools approved to offer the same courses but who have more would-be students to cater to?
Any and all replies most welcome!
Happy flying...
Birky ([email protected])
Last edited by Birky; 7th Apr 2005 at 10:12.
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Flight Safety Academy
Hi to you all this is my first post in this forum.I know this question has been dealt with before and ive gone through all the postings to the best of my knowledge. Ive seen varied opinions more in support than against.well the question is about Flight Safety.I know they charge a bomb for their training so is it really worth the extra cash.I read one posting where it mentioned paying 30 % extra for brand name. (At the end of the day if the good training and brand name are going to land you a job im fine with it "i guess".) So my question , do flight safety grads enjoy advantages in recruitment over other flight school grads cause of the brand name.How do they treat their students (anybody from Vero Beach) .Im not here to start a debate and would love to here from current Flight Safety pilots as well as anyone who has trained there about their experiences, feel free to PM or mail me .I respect others opinions and believe everyone has their own experiences.Sincerely if i had the money id go to Flight Safety right away.Im at a cross road and would like your honest opinions.Thanks ppl
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I graduated from Flight Safety in May 2004.
Your not paying 30 percent more for the name, whoever told you that is an idiot. You are paying for the facilities, maintanence, aircraft etc etc.
Very good school that will prepare you for the Airlines..
They are very strict on procedures especially IFR. Take the tour, you will leave with your mouth open.
Too bad Vero Beach sucks though. But heck, more studying.
Your not paying 30 percent more for the name, whoever told you that is an idiot. You are paying for the facilities, maintanence, aircraft etc etc.
Very good school that will prepare you for the Airlines..
They are very strict on procedures especially IFR. Take the tour, you will leave with your mouth open.
Too bad Vero Beach sucks though. But heck, more studying.
The Cooler King
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i went to visit them a few times when i was in florida. they have a good pilot shop there!
spoke to the marketing department and they seemed to be highly organised. i met a few students who were buying bits and pieces at the pilot shop and they were all very impressed with the school.
the facilities are really first class and i agree with my learned friend that you are paying the extra for that! the aircraft were immaculate, the apartments were lovely, the briefing rooms and simulation rooms were clean and well equiped. to be honest, the place is a student pilot's wet dream!
the school is a bit of a distance from the vero beach strip, but there's a great fish and chip restaurant down the road (thank you Paul Thompson for that....and for the directions back to Indrio Road!)
A nice place - would love to go there. Am in talks with my bank at the moment!
spoke to the marketing department and they seemed to be highly organised. i met a few students who were buying bits and pieces at the pilot shop and they were all very impressed with the school.
the facilities are really first class and i agree with my learned friend that you are paying the extra for that! the aircraft were immaculate, the apartments were lovely, the briefing rooms and simulation rooms were clean and well equiped. to be honest, the place is a student pilot's wet dream!
the school is a bit of a distance from the vero beach strip, but there's a great fish and chip restaurant down the road (thank you Paul Thompson for that....and for the directions back to Indrio Road!)
A nice place - would love to go there. Am in talks with my bank at the moment!