How long are your ATPL ground exams valid?

[Unusual Attitude]

Just a quick update for anyone who's found themselves in the same boat as me (have CPL but no IR and therefore expired ATPL theory)

Have started studying ATPL's D/L again for the second time (oh the pain!) and am back with OATS as they gave me a fantastic deal for all the books etc second time round.

So far its actually not as bad as I thought, its been 5 years since I last studied the ATPL's but its coming back pretty well. My first couple of frames are taking about 1/3 of the suggested time and I'm getting through about 2 per week just studying a few hours in the evenings.

Will see how I get on in the exams again but so far its going pretty well and have to admit I'm quite enjoying it !

[heights good]

ATPL Theory currency

Once the ATPL Theory exams have all been taken and passed is there any currency requirements or is it a pass for life?

[Wellington Bomber]

Last i heard was that you had to pass your IR within 3 years of your last exam pass

[helicopter-redeye]

You need the CPL issued in 3yrs (and as noted the exam credits are good for 3yrs to complete the IR as well).

No CPL in 3yrs from date of last exam - do them all again.

No IR in 3 yrs from date of last exam - take the IR designated papers again.

Either way, plan ahead. they are time limited.

There is no (current) need to resit papers for currency, so in that sense they are a pass for life as long as some license currency is maintained (but I'm vague about this bit ... 7 years ?? Lasors is your friend). There is some update to the H side which includes NVG theory which is new. I don't believe there is any requirement to go sit this as an extra few Q's for instance.


h-r

[1in60]

ATPL's non completion in 18 months

Slightly different slant on this thread

Has anyone personal experience of, or heard of anyone who had attempts left, but not completed the ATPL exams in the 18 month period and been granted permission by the CAA to use their final attempt after the end of the 18 months

[Unusual Attitude]

Helicopter-Redeye,

Just noticed your post above however what your saying as follows is not correct for fixed wing:-

"You need the CPL issued in 3yrs (and as noted the exam credits are good for 3yrs to complete the IR as well).

No CPL in 3yrs from date of last exam - do them all again.

No IR in 3 yrs from date of last exam - take the IR designated papers again."

I have expired ATPL's and a CPL but no I/R, if I were to just sit the I/R exams I would indeed be able to gain a CPL/IR but according to the CAA I would not have a 'Frozen ATPL'. Without a 'Frozen ATPL' I cannot add a Multi-crew type to my license so would be forever restricted to single pilot types and air taxi work etc.
So, if you have a CPL but no I/R and expired ATPL theory, the only way you can gain a Fz ATPL is to sit 13 exams again (you get VFR comms credited for having a CPL!), trust me on this as I'm in the middle of doing my ATPL's for the second time around and have all the above confirmed in writing from the CAA.

Think its different for you rotary chaps however...

[igarratt]

IR papers

sorry this is raking up a well over cooked thread but it's all relevant to this topic so thought I'd keep it in one place.

There seemed to be many references to "have to take the IR designated papers again."

This is the case where you have done atpl exams and a CPL but no IR, the 36 months have lapsed, I read that you then have to take the "IR designated papers again."

so questions : is this correct or is it actually all 14 (or all bar VFR comms) ???
OR if it is just IR Papers does anyone know what this list of said IR designated papers are ??

Many Thanks for your info

Ian

[Unusual Attitude]

Ian,

Unless something has changed in the last couple of years (which I'm pretty sure it hasnt) then you'd still need to sit 13 exams (All 14 minus VFR comms) to be able to add an IR to your CPL and gain a FATPL.

If you only pass the IR exams and then add an IR to your CPL you will have a CPL/IR and NOT a Frozen ATPL, there is a BIG DIFFERENCE.

Without a FATPL, as stated above you cannot fly multicrew types.

The Rotary world seems to be different however....

[Parson]

1in60,

I believe there were some instances of extensions around the time of change over from UK exams to JAR. I would think that the CAA are fairly rigid in applying this rule now - after all, why have a time limit if you're not going to enforce it? Not fair on others.

That said, if you had extenuating circumstances (death of close relative, illness, ground school folding etc.) they might be sympathetic.

[igarratt]

Thank you Unusual Attitude that was the answer i had in my head but wasnt sure.

in the same way you just end up with a cpl/ir not an atpl/(f)atpl, does the same happen with MCC or is keeping the IR and cpl valid / renewed (and thus the 7 year limit) give you the advantage of still being able to get your atpl or does this have the same effect if you dont get MCC?

I think i'm correct that atpl is make up of the hours CPL IR and MCC, though that did lead me to question what happens on single pilot commercial jets as i'd guess a MCC is not really applicable.

cheers Ian

oh and what is the caa's answer to:
How shall a pilot ask for a QFE ?
A request Queen Fox Easy
B request Quebec Foxtrot Echo
C request Quebec Fox Echo
D request Quebec Fox Easy

LOL

[JohnRayner]

I think I've got this, but just to make sure...

Afternoon all,

Looking through LASORS requirements and restrictions for commercial training, the better to plan any training I undertake.

I get the timeframe for sitting ATPLs (18 months to do the lot, starting from the date of the first sitting you take)

I get the timeframe for getting CPL/ME/IR (36 months from the end of the month in which your last exam was passed)

It's the ATPL validity after this I want to be sure of.

A pass in the ATPL theory examinations will be accepted
for the issue of a CPL or IR during the 36 months from
the end of the month of the date of the final pass in the
examinations*. Provided that an IR is obtained during
this period, a pass in the ATPL theoretical knowledge
examinations will remain valid (for the purpose of ATPL
issue) for a period of 7 years from the validity date of the
most recent renewal IR entered in the CPL.

As I understand the above, so long as the IR is renewed within a 7 year period from the previous IR, then the exams remain valid and no resits are required?

And so to the question I haven't yet found an answer to. If you keep the above ticking over in the manner required, revalidating all bits as required, in theory there'd be no limit on when you needed to get ATPL?

Cheers all,

JR

[Skycreature]

Australian CPL and JAR ATPL

Hello,

I'm about to complete my Australian CPL and would like to get ATPL subjects out of the way next. Would an Australian CPL and IR be valid to extend JAR ATPL's for up to 7 years?

I've been told that the JAR ATPL's are recognised in most countries and only require a small conversion. Whereas Oz ATPL are not. Is this correct?

Would this info be in LASORS G and J?

Thanks.

[downunder]

I have seen a question for the ATPL exams that says the exams are extended for a year with the issuance of a Flight Instructor Rating. That gives you four years.
Desperately trying to find ICAO/JAA reference.
Anyone else remember seeing this question/

[BigGrecian]

As students of the ATPLs and one of you a CPL/IR you should be more than aware that the refrence is section J of JAR FCL 1 and LASORS: LASORS 2010 | Publications | CAA applies :

JAR–FCL 1.495 Acceptance period
(a) A pass in the theoretical knowledge examinations given in accordance with JAR–FCL
1.490 will be accepted for the grant of the CPL(A) or IR(A) during the 36 months from the
date of gaining a Pass in all the required examination papers.
(b) Provided that an IR(A) is obtained in accordance with (a) above, a pass in the
ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge examination will remain valid for a period of 7 years from the last
validity date of the IR(A) entered in the CPL(A) for the issuance of an ATPL(A).
(c) A pass in the ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge examination will remain valid for a
period of 7 years from the last validity date of a type rating entered in a F/E licence.

J1.7 JAR-FCL THEORETICALKNOWLEDGE EXAMINATION ACCEPTANCE PERIOD
Potential candidates for the JAR-FCL ATPL theoretical knowledge examinations should first consider the implications of JAR-FCL 1.495 or 2.495 that relates to the Acceptance Period.
A pass in the ATPL theory examinations will be accepted for the issue of a CPL or IR during the 36 months from the end of the month of the date of the final pass in the examinations*. Provided that an IR is obtained during this period, a pass in the ATPL theoretical knowledge examinations will remain valid (for the purpose of ATPL issue) for a period of 7 years from the validity date of the most recent renewal IR entered in the CPL.
* All requirements for the issue of the CPL and IR must be met and the applicant required to apply to PLD for issue within the 36 month validity period of the theoretical knowledge examination.

Failure to comply with Acceptance Period
If a CPL and IR are not granted within the 36 month acceptance period then the ATPL theory credit will lapse.
Candidates will be required to re-pass all ATPL theoretical knowledge examinations to regain ATPL theory credit.
However, it has been agreed that where a candidate has previously passed all ATPL theoretical knowledge examinations but were not granted a CPL/IR within the 36 month acceptance period, the amount of ATPL theoretical
knowledge instruction will be at the discretion of the Head of Training of the Approved FTO.

So in summary - an FI has absolutely no bearing on your ATPL acceptance period.

And as clearly stated as long as you renew your JAA IR you have 7 years of ATPL credit each time you renew your JAA IR.