Benefits and training. Student status?
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Benefits and training. Student status?
The question is, "where do you stand with regard to UK employment law when you start the slippery ATPL path?"
Okay let's take my case
British
29, made redundant
no dependencies
no council tax
no mortgage
starting ATPLs soon full-time so availability work is not great
Do I need to register unemployment? Well technically yes but it seems the system now encourages you not to if you cannot work! You have to sign and see someone every 2 weeks. Income-assessed dole money? Not eligible due to in part that redundancy cheque.
What are your experiences and where do we legally stand within the system?
Anyway all I want is a UB40 type card to get discounts
Doubt I shall get a student card from the FTO. Perhaps those studying ATPLs should have their own "branch" of the National Union of Students?
Okay let's take my case
British
29, made redundant
no dependencies
no council tax
no mortgage
starting ATPLs soon full-time so availability work is not great
Do I need to register unemployment? Well technically yes but it seems the system now encourages you not to if you cannot work! You have to sign and see someone every 2 weeks. Income-assessed dole money? Not eligible due to in part that redundancy cheque.
What are your experiences and where do we legally stand within the system?
Anyway all I want is a UB40 type card to get discounts
Doubt I shall get a student card from the FTO. Perhaps those studying ATPLs should have their own "branch" of the National Union of Students?
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Hey, i have Emailed NUS about this, i belive that the ATPL should be treated the same as CIMA and other Chartered courses are, would be nice to get some support in pushing this issue if they dont agree with my thinking.
The age limit on alot of discount cards for students is 26, but i am sure NUS doesnt have an upper age limit.
I have an NUS card at the moment, but if i went to do an ATPL i wouldnt, and i would miss it.
The age limit on alot of discount cards for students is 26, but i am sure NUS doesnt have an upper age limit.
I have an NUS card at the moment, but if i went to do an ATPL i wouldnt, and i would miss it.
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Hey planecrazy, nice to know I am not likewise!
Well I think there should be some kind of union-esque support. Who else to turn to eh? BALPA? AOPA? They all charge. But on the other hand, perhaps better geared toward knowing aviation-related issues and so could have their own "student" arm.
No the NUS do not have an upper age limit - see mature students.
On that selfish front again, I should have taken life membership of my SU for £20 when I had a chance. Would have got a student card then
Didn't there use to me a ISHAC card or something?
Well I think there should be some kind of union-esque support. Who else to turn to eh? BALPA? AOPA? They all charge. But on the other hand, perhaps better geared toward knowing aviation-related issues and so could have their own "student" arm.
No the NUS do not have an upper age limit - see mature students.
On that selfish front again, I should have taken life membership of my SU for £20 when I had a chance. Would have got a student card then
Didn't there use to me a ISHAC card or something?
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What are your experiences and where do we legally stand within the system?
Hey, i have Emailed NUS about this, i belive that the ATPL should be treated the same as CIMA and other Chartered courses are, would be nice to get some support in pushing this issue if they dont agree with my thinking
Most unions have the cards available on the desk in reception when you walk in, either go in and take one or get a friend to
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I can grab a handfull at my current college too, i dont know what will come of it but when they email me back i will post it. I guess we are not entitled to an NUS card, but we should be, CIMA and CIM students get them if they study at work, home, college or uni and i would put the ATPL on a par with those courses. Could do what some one said above, set one up myself, i think a few more people would need to be interested in such a scheme for that to take-off, i dont think discount clubs, unions are hard to establish as such, but they need participants.
Is there discount schemes for pilots in the UK or the world even? I know alot of other industrys have discount schemes, like the nurses one, not all nurses work for the NHS or are employed by the NHS, there is private, etc. And they have a discount scheme, well locally they do as my partner is in it, and its not a staff discount thing as all nurses are entitled to it no matter who employs them.
I an surprised RAeS or AOPA or GAPAN or Etc, have not got some scheme in place. RAeS have a student wing i think too.
Is there discount schemes for pilots in the UK or the world even? I know alot of other industrys have discount schemes, like the nurses one, not all nurses work for the NHS or are employed by the NHS, there is private, etc. And they have a discount scheme, well locally they do as my partner is in it, and its not a staff discount thing as all nurses are entitled to it no matter who employs them.
I an surprised RAeS or AOPA or GAPAN or Etc, have not got some scheme in place. RAeS have a student wing i think too.
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i belive that the ATPL should be treated the same as CIMA and other Chartered course
The ATPL is treated the same as ACA, CIMA, ACCA and other professional organisations in that they are classed as NVQ5 and hence grants are not available!
As for signing on unemployed? No, it would be fraudulent as you are not available for work. However, try to make sure that you have employment for the last week of the tax year in order to get your personal tax allowance instantly through PAYE rather than having to fill in a tax return!
Cheers
Whirls
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I need to see someone about the tax situation.
Not sure about your last week before end of tax year stunt?
I have earnt more than my £5k relief amount gross, but iirc monthly salary was deducted on the basis of taxable_income/12, so if I am unemployed still in April 2007, I would have overpaid my income tax (4 months income tax < relief amount)
Ahhhh I recall as a sprog student signing a P38(something) form declaring that "thou shall not work for the rest of the tax year" and so the rebate is issued. I shall go look on hmrc.gov.uk.
Can't hurt to get your money off HMRC! Now if only I got my SAYE back off of my ex-employer I shall be a happier man.
Valid food for thought for anyone coming out of a job and commencing flight training; you need every penny.
Now if the tax man paid for your training, heh I'll stop there
Not sure about your last week before end of tax year stunt?
I have earnt more than my £5k relief amount gross, but iirc monthly salary was deducted on the basis of taxable_income/12, so if I am unemployed still in April 2007, I would have overpaid my income tax (4 months income tax < relief amount)
Ahhhh I recall as a sprog student signing a P38(something) form declaring that "thou shall not work for the rest of the tax year" and so the rebate is issued. I shall go look on hmrc.gov.uk.
Can't hurt to get your money off HMRC! Now if only I got my SAYE back off of my ex-employer I shall be a happier man.
Valid food for thought for anyone coming out of a job and commencing flight training; you need every penny.
Now if the tax man paid for your training, heh I'll stop there
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Tax Rebate
From http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/faqs/general.htm:
If you are an employee on PAYE:
What should I do if I leave my job?
It is important to get a form P45 from your employer. If you don't go to another job and don't start claiming unemployment benefit, you may be entitled to a tax repayment. After a month, ask for a repayment claim form P50 which you should complete and return to your Tax Office with your P45 Parts 2 and 3 if you have them. We give repayment claims top priority and try to make sure you get any refund you are due within 28 days.
If you are an employee on PAYE:
What should I do if I leave my job?
It is important to get a form P45 from your employer. If you don't go to another job and don't start claiming unemployment benefit, you may be entitled to a tax repayment. After a month, ask for a repayment claim form P50 which you should complete and return to your Tax Office with your P45 Parts 2 and 3 if you have them. We give repayment claims top priority and try to make sure you get any refund you are due within 28 days.
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Chartered Accountant trainees (and I believe it's the same for Chartered Management Accountants (CIMA)) do their training through employer sponsorship and hence are employed. I was never aware of any trainee getting student discount cards or NUS membership.
You have to take the initiative to organise that (which would include some cost), as it is not something that you receive by right.
I have earnt more than my £5k relief amount gross, but iirc monthly salary was deducted on the basis of taxable_income/12, so if I am unemployed still in April 2007, I would have overpaid my income tax (4 months income tax < relief amount)
Alternatively, fill in a tax return (request one from the tax office).
SAYE back off of my ex-employer I shall be a happier man
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"If you are an employee on PAYE:
What should I do if I leave my job?
It is important to get a form P45 from your employer. If you don't go to another job and don't start claiming unemployment benefit, you may be entitled to a tax repayment. After a month, ask for a repayment claim form P50 which you should complete and return to your Tax Office with your P45 Parts 2 and 3 if you have them. We give repayment claims top priority and try to make sure you get any refund you are due within 28 days."
If it's any help to anyone, when i've been in this situation before i simply wrote a letter to my local tax office saying that i hadn't worked the full tax year and so wasn't sure whether i'd paid the correct tax, could they please take a look at it? didn't hear anything until i got the cheque in the post a few weeks later
. in general the guys on the phones at the tax office have always been really helpful when i've spoken to them - give them a call!
girl friday
What should I do if I leave my job?
It is important to get a form P45 from your employer. If you don't go to another job and don't start claiming unemployment benefit, you may be entitled to a tax repayment. After a month, ask for a repayment claim form P50 which you should complete and return to your Tax Office with your P45 Parts 2 and 3 if you have them. We give repayment claims top priority and try to make sure you get any refund you are due within 28 days."
If it's any help to anyone, when i've been in this situation before i simply wrote a letter to my local tax office saying that i hadn't worked the full tax year and so wasn't sure whether i'd paid the correct tax, could they please take a look at it? didn't hear anything until i got the cheque in the post a few weeks later
. in general the guys on the phones at the tax office have always been really helpful when i've spoken to them - give them a call!girl friday
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Originally Posted by Whirlygig
The ATPL is treated the same as ACA, CIMA, ACCA and other professional organisations in that they are classed as NVQ5 and hence grants are not available!
Whirls
Whirls
At the end of the day, ATPL is a bog standard vocational qualification at about level 3 if you are lucky. Its an expensive bog standard level, no doubting that.
Chartered qualifications include the various engineering disciplines and I remember and instructor at Oxford commenting that ATPL was nowhere near being an engineer.
Engineers design and build planes, pilots bend them.
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I did ACA and you need to have a way better standard of maths than GCSE (which is all you need for ATPL's)
Also I got an associate NUS card if anyone cares - this is because the Institute (ICAEW) has an agreement with the NUS
Also I got an associate NUS card if anyone cares - this is because the Institute (ICAEW) has an agreement with the NUS
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Originally Posted by chrisbl
The ATPL is nowhere near the same level as ACA, CIMA etc. For a start chartered qualifications require a degree level education to start the training.
All I said was that it was classed as NVQ5 which means that it doesn't have the same tax relief status and grant funding as other NVQs 1-4. As for difficulty? Depends on your aptitude. I found Chartered Accountancy to be maximum income for minimum effort; my professional aviation exams I find harder; might be something to do with being another 15 years older or that aviation/met/nav/ engineering etc are not as structured as I am used to. Oddly, I find Aviation Law one of the easier subjects!However, there are no end of posts on here suggesting that, if given the opportunity, a potential ATPL student should do a degree as well. Strictly the entry into Chartered does NOT require a degree but that for competition for jobs, it's best to have one.
Originally Posted by balhambob
Also I got an associate NUS card if anyone cares - this is because the Institute (ICAEW) has an agreement with the NUS
Cheers
Whirls
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Strictly, it's not allowed (assuming you are UK based). You are supposed to be available for work and, if you're studying, you're not available. If you get caught or someone dobs you in, the penalties are severe.
However, you may qualify for income support as a student which would qualify for you for housing and council tax benefit but Job Seeker's Allowance is a no-no.
If you want to be above board, then ask at your local Citizens' Advice Bureau and will help you with your entitlement.
Cheers
Whirls
However, you may qualify for income support as a student which would qualify for you for housing and council tax benefit but Job Seeker's Allowance is a no-no.
If you want to be above board, then ask at your local Citizens' Advice Bureau and will help you with your entitlement.
Cheers
Whirls
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Claiming Benifits While Training?
Hey Folks,
I'm hoping to start an integrated course at Cabair next year and would be intending on moving into rented property in Bedford along with my wife and child.
Can I assume that we would both be able to claim all the usual unemployment benefits from the government? Can I further assume that because we would both be unemployed that we would be able to claim for housing benefit to pay for our rent?
I guess what I really want to know is if anybody else has been in this situation and can shed some light on what exactly we would be able to claim from the government with regards to unemployment/housing/child benefits?
Thanks in advance
Chris
I'm hoping to start an integrated course at Cabair next year and would be intending on moving into rented property in Bedford along with my wife and child.
Can I assume that we would both be able to claim all the usual unemployment benefits from the government? Can I further assume that because we would both be unemployed that we would be able to claim for housing benefit to pay for our rent?
I guess what I really want to know is if anybody else has been in this situation and can shed some light on what exactly we would be able to claim from the government with regards to unemployment/housing/child benefits?
Thanks in advance
Chris