ME & IR questions (inc. renewal)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: homeless
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This all sounds a bit anal, I mean when is the actual wind anywhere near what the weather man says?
And even if you had a fancy aeroplane with an onboard readout, it could all thrown out the window if you are flying high and fast because you wouldnt be using a standard rate turn anyway.
And even if you had a fancy aeroplane with an onboard readout, it could all thrown out the window if you are flying high and fast because you wouldnt be using a standard rate turn anyway.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you don't mind the loss of accuracy... in my e.g. (above) using the 'clock' method results in a 9 sec error, to the tear-drop O/B timing.
Mathmatically, the method is generally accepted to break down beyond about 25-30kts across the pattern.
Pip.
Mathmatically, the method is generally accepted to break down beyond about 25-30kts across the pattern.
Pip.
Last edited by yippipie; 11th Dec 2006 at 11:49.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Delhi
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Multi Engine Command Instrument Rating
Hello everyone! I have an important training related question on the multi-engine command instrument rating from Australia. The minimum requirement is 20 hours of instrument flight time and 20 hours of intrument flight time on an approved flight simulator. Most schools quote the minimum required hours in their packages for training. However, depending on the skill and aptitude of the pilot, the number of hours required can vary. Can anyone tell me the number of hours an AVERAGE pilot would take to obtain a multi-engine command instrument rating in Australia. I gather, in Australia people take their flying seriously, and "fxing" of hours with the instructos to obtain the ratings does not work so well. In other places, especialy the U.S. and Phillippines these sort of things do happen. That is the primary reason why I want to train in Australia. I have a passion for flying and want to do things properly. In order to budget though, I need to know how many hours an average student pilot takes to get the MR-CIR and what is the best way to approach it; ie. do a lot of simulator time or do more actualy flying? Any comments would be graetly appreciated. Cheers.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Down a dark hole
Posts: 301
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello everyone! I have an important training related question on the multi-engine command instrument rating from Australia. The minimum requirement is 20 hours of instrument flight time and 20 hours of intrument flight time on an approved flight simulator. Most schools quote the minimum required hours in their packages for training. However, depending on the skill and aptitude of the pilot, the number of hours required can vary. Can anyone tell me the number of hours an AVERAGE pilot would take to obtain a multi-engine command instrument rating in Australia. I gather, in Australia people take their flying seriously, and "fxing" of hours with the instructos to obtain the ratings does not work so well. In other places, especialy the U.S. and Phillippines these sort of things do happen. That is the primary reason why I want to train in Australia. I have a passion for flying and want to do things properly. In order to budget though, I need to know how many hours an average student pilot takes to get the MR-CIR and what is the best way to approach it; ie. do a lot of simulator time or do more actualy flying? Any comments would be graetly appreciated. Cheers.
Use a Stimulator to learn the basics then go get as much time as you can in the aeroplane. Try to fly with an intructor who will take you into some real cloud and real rain.
R
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: europe
Age: 49
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
get yourself an handheld GPS,if too expensive,30degrees for one minute(corrected 1s/1kt wind),then check the ndb tail...when you see a nice 30 degrees make your turn and anticipate needle inbound course..pull the head and push the tail
but if you start to use sin and cos..the first thing youll do is fly into that mountain;-)
Remember..if you fly at cat C aircraft one day,max speed over the fix is 180kts,(entry max 90sec/no wind)to avoid getting out of the unprotected area..obs clearance drops by 50 percent when 3 miles out...after teardrop entry you may also have to parallel the outbound track until you reach a certain dme or fix until turning inbound.
Check JEPPS manual about procedure turns if unsure..its all in there;-)
and if you screw up the outbound, banking more than a standard rate to establish inbound is always better than overshooting it;-)
all the best;-)
ps:i believe the 45 deg rule is there to allow you an entry of the procedure turn without making a turn into the hold to be established for the outbound.
ex: inbound course 270deg, if you head south your 90 degrees from the outbound,not allowed to join outbound...if your head is 135 degr you are good to go for an outbound proc.
so easier to draw...but hope it helps..
regards
but if you start to use sin and cos..the first thing youll do is fly into that mountain;-)
Remember..if you fly at cat C aircraft one day,max speed over the fix is 180kts,(entry max 90sec/no wind)to avoid getting out of the unprotected area..obs clearance drops by 50 percent when 3 miles out...after teardrop entry you may also have to parallel the outbound track until you reach a certain dme or fix until turning inbound.
Check JEPPS manual about procedure turns if unsure..its all in there;-)
and if you screw up the outbound, banking more than a standard rate to establish inbound is always better than overshooting it;-)
all the best;-)
ps:i believe the 45 deg rule is there to allow you an entry of the procedure turn without making a turn into the hold to be established for the outbound.
ex: inbound course 270deg, if you head south your 90 degrees from the outbound,not allowed to join outbound...if your head is 135 degr you are good to go for an outbound proc.
so easier to draw...but hope it helps..
regards
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: London, UK
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Many ways to skin a cat...
Hey Guys,
All good suggestions! Personally, I found that playing on RANT 2000 (Radio Navigation Trainer) helped me. Basic software - gives tutorials and exercises in 2D. I found that with experience i could quite easily guess suitable headings/timings - very useful when you get unexpected hold/proceedure.
ttoam
All good suggestions! Personally, I found that playing on RANT 2000 (Radio Navigation Trainer) helped me. Basic software - gives tutorials and exercises in 2D. I found that with experience i could quite easily guess suitable headings/timings - very useful when you get unexpected hold/proceedure.
ttoam
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: EU
Posts: 961
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
instrument renewal?
hello
a company is asking me to start my training next month.
is there a place close of gatwick or london where I could renew my Instrument .
I though the trto can renew my IR before to send me in the sim ...
thank you for your help.
a company is asking me to start my training next month.
is there a place close of gatwick or london where I could renew my Instrument .
I though the trto can renew my IR before to send me in the sim ...
thank you for your help.
Last edited by dartagnan; 13th Dec 2006 at 10:20.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hunched over a keyboard
Posts: 1,193
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You can renew on a sim - but you'll need to be quick. The ANO is due for ammendment any day now and that will require lapsed ratings to be renewed on an aeroplane and current ratings to be revalidated alternately on the sim and aeroplane.
PM sent
PM sent
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Westward TV
Posts: 412
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1) before you apply for your first multi pilot type, you need a valid and current multi engined instrument rating.
2) never heard of anyone using a TRTO to renew your single pilot instrument rating. you need to use either a dedicated sim or a single pilot multi engine aircraft which are part of an FTO.
3) plus, a TRE can only sign instrument ratings for the types which they are valid for. most cannot sign off multi engine single pilot instrument ratings.
4) before you begin any type rating, the TRTO will check your licence and medical. if you are found to be lacking, they will not start you on your course.
so, and i'm assuming from posting in this forum that you are going for your first MPA type. in which case, bite the bullet and get renewed before you start your type. there are a few places around gatwick, try blackbushe airport for starters
2) never heard of anyone using a TRTO to renew your single pilot instrument rating. you need to use either a dedicated sim or a single pilot multi engine aircraft which are part of an FTO.
3) plus, a TRE can only sign instrument ratings for the types which they are valid for. most cannot sign off multi engine single pilot instrument ratings.
4) before you begin any type rating, the TRTO will check your licence and medical. if you are found to be lacking, they will not start you on your course.
so, and i'm assuming from posting in this forum that you are going for your first MPA type. in which case, bite the bullet and get renewed before you start your type. there are a few places around gatwick, try blackbushe airport for starters
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: EU
Posts: 961
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GUhoneybun,
I will let the TRTO to extend my IR as they say.They are JAR and that's their business to train us.
I am not the first one to have this kind of problem, and I think since the time, they have learned to deal with :
they have probably a single pilot simulator somewhere (or in a school near the TRTO)and they will put me in between groundschool.
as you suggest me,I will check in my non UK JAA country for a single pilot simulator, in case things go wrong.
what form do I need to bring?
I will let the TRTO to extend my IR as they say.They are JAR and that's their business to train us.
I am not the first one to have this kind of problem, and I think since the time, they have learned to deal with :
they have probably a single pilot simulator somewhere (or in a school near the TRTO)and they will put me in between groundschool.
as you suggest me,I will check in my non UK JAA country for a single pilot simulator, in case things go wrong.
what form do I need to bring?
Last edited by dartagnan; 13th Dec 2006 at 20:43.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ils Prm
Hey PhillTowns,
here's a bit of info on the independant ILS APP you were talking about.
At aerodromes such as Sydney where you have simultaneous Parallel RWY ops in IMC ( ILS approaches), there is another ILS plate in the jepps titled ILS PRM. The PRM stands for Precision Runway Monitoring. There are seperate air traffic controllers on seperate frequencies (prm frequencies) monitoring highly sensitive radar screens for each approach path to the runways.the aircraft must monitor both the tower frequency and the PRM frequency during the approach. In between the runways there is a 610 meter wide area extending approx 20 miles out called the Non Transgression Zone. If, during simultaneous ILS approaches, either aircraft penetrates this zone then the previously mentioned ATC controller (i think its both controllers) will Transmit to each others aircraft "BREAKOUT" and give them vectors away from each other.
this doesn't happen very often as most ILS approaches into syd are coupled to A/P and even if they were not the pilots flying the aircraft would have to be pretty bad to wander so far from the Localiser. I may be wrong but I dont think syd has had a breakout procedure in about 8 years.
the pilots flying the approaches must be certified for ILS PRM, and if they are not then they must advise ATC 120nm from the AD and the approaches will then be staggered.
you might already know all this but i thought i would let you know anyway.
read jepp sydney 11-0 it is explained there.
safe flying
here's a bit of info on the independant ILS APP you were talking about.
At aerodromes such as Sydney where you have simultaneous Parallel RWY ops in IMC ( ILS approaches), there is another ILS plate in the jepps titled ILS PRM. The PRM stands for Precision Runway Monitoring. There are seperate air traffic controllers on seperate frequencies (prm frequencies) monitoring highly sensitive radar screens for each approach path to the runways.the aircraft must monitor both the tower frequency and the PRM frequency during the approach. In between the runways there is a 610 meter wide area extending approx 20 miles out called the Non Transgression Zone. If, during simultaneous ILS approaches, either aircraft penetrates this zone then the previously mentioned ATC controller (i think its both controllers) will Transmit to each others aircraft "BREAKOUT" and give them vectors away from each other.
this doesn't happen very often as most ILS approaches into syd are coupled to A/P and even if they were not the pilots flying the aircraft would have to be pretty bad to wander so far from the Localiser. I may be wrong but I dont think syd has had a breakout procedure in about 8 years.
the pilots flying the approaches must be certified for ILS PRM, and if they are not then they must advise ATC 120nm from the AD and the approaches will then be staggered.
you might already know all this but i thought i would let you know anyway.
read jepp sydney 11-0 it is explained there.
safe flying
Join Date: Dec 1997
Location: Suffolk UK
Posts: 4,927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting that you should answer a question that is more than a year old! However, your answer is incomplete. Simultaneous Parallel Approaches are unrestricted providing that the runway and approach centrelines are separated by 4300ft (1300m) or greater. Certain surveillance radar equipment is required in most countries also. PRM approaches are a procedure for Simultaneous Close Parallel Approaches, which must be monitored by precision radar and require the dual-frequency monitoring you refer to. Without PRM, on runways with centrelines closer than 4300ft, approaches must be staggered along the approach path, whcih restricts the landing rate achievable.
The monitoring is carried out by a third controller (on a two-runway airport), who is the sole voice on the second frequency.
PRM allows the separation between approach courses to be reduced to 3400' - less if one of the approach courses is offset (Simultaneous Offset Instrument Approaches (SOIA)).
The design of these approaches ensures that separation is sufficient at all times to remain outside TCAS TA/RA constraints.
Scroggs
The monitoring is carried out by a third controller (on a two-runway airport), who is the sole voice on the second frequency.
PRM allows the separation between approach courses to be reduced to 3400' - less if one of the approach courses is offset (Simultaneous Offset Instrument Approaches (SOIA)).
The design of these approaches ensures that separation is sufficient at all times to remain outside TCAS TA/RA constraints.
Scroggs
....and they will put me in between groundschool.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Scroggs - Ils Prm
Hey Scroggs,
thanks for that, didnt know that PRM was just for RWY's closer than 1300m.
Sydney actually uses 2 extra controllers though. One for each RWY. E.G. RWY's 16L and 16R at syd, if you look at the JEPP plates the PRM frequencies are different for each RWY.
Cheers mate
thanks for that, didnt know that PRM was just for RWY's closer than 1300m.
Sydney actually uses 2 extra controllers though. One for each RWY. E.G. RWY's 16L and 16R at syd, if you look at the JEPP plates the PRM frequencies are different for each RWY.
Cheers mate
Join Date: May 2006
Location: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wiki44
Hey mate,
my CIR course was a set course which included 30hrs in the beech duchess (including aircraft endo) and 30 hrs in the sim. This was more than enough time in each as the instruction was also of a high standard. This posed no problem for my CIR flight test.
As long as you are fine with your intercepts and approach procedures you shouldn't need this much time in the sim, and just do enough time in the aircraft so you are confident with it.
good luck
my CIR course was a set course which included 30hrs in the beech duchess (including aircraft endo) and 30 hrs in the sim. This was more than enough time in each as the instruction was also of a high standard. This posed no problem for my CIR flight test.
As long as you are fine with your intercepts and approach procedures you shouldn't need this much time in the sim, and just do enough time in the aircraft so you are confident with it.
good luck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Andalusia
Age: 54
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IR hour requirements
Could someone clarify the hour requirements for commencement of the IR/ME?
My understanding is that you must have 50 hours cross country (with PPL+ATPL ground passed) - Do the cross country hours done as part of the PPL count? Must they be all PIC or PICUS (i.e. solo during PPL??) Or can some dual cross country be thrown in? Must they all be after the PPL?
Thanks for any clarification.
Jerezflyer
My understanding is that you must have 50 hours cross country (with PPL+ATPL ground passed) - Do the cross country hours done as part of the PPL count? Must they be all PIC or PICUS (i.e. solo during PPL??) Or can some dual cross country be thrown in? Must they all be after the PPL?
Thanks for any clarification.
Jerezflyer
From Lasors (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS_07.pdf):
Dual won't count since it isn't PIC (or PICUS)! Whether before or after PPL is (to be pedantic) irrelevant but they must be PIC(US); however, you are unlikely to accumulate very much x-country PIC before PPL issue. Only real answer is to flog round the countryside after PPL issue.
Experience Requirements
When applying for an IR(A) you must produce evidence
of having met the following flying requirements:-
50 hours cross-country flight time as PIC in
aeroplanes or helicopters, of which at least 10 hours
shall be in aeroplanes.
When applying for an IR(A) you must produce evidence
of having met the following flying requirements:-
50 hours cross-country flight time as PIC in
aeroplanes or helicopters, of which at least 10 hours
shall be in aeroplanes.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ireland/Belgium
Age: 43
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FNTPII vs "instrument ground time"
Hello,
firstly apologies if this has been covered elsewhere,
Regarding the CAA form “SRG1161 - Instrument rating(A) application”:
Section D asks the applicant to enter the number of hours they have completed as “instrument ground time” and also, on another line, the number of hours in “FNPT I or II”.
Having referenced the ‘Lasors’ guide for pilots, instrument ground time is defined as “time which a pilot is receiving instruction in simulated instrument flight in synthetic training devices (STDs)”.
I have completed 26 hrs FNTP II which is itself a STD (unless I am mistaken?)... So FNPT II IS (also?) 'Instrument ground time' ??
Hence my confusion-
Should I leave the “Instrument ground time” field blank or should I include my 26 hours there AS WELL AS entering it in the field pertaining to "FNPTII hours"???
regards,
John.
firstly apologies if this has been covered elsewhere,
Regarding the CAA form “SRG1161 - Instrument rating(A) application”:
Section D asks the applicant to enter the number of hours they have completed as “instrument ground time” and also, on another line, the number of hours in “FNPT I or II”.
Having referenced the ‘Lasors’ guide for pilots, instrument ground time is defined as “time which a pilot is receiving instruction in simulated instrument flight in synthetic training devices (STDs)”.
I have completed 26 hrs FNTP II which is itself a STD (unless I am mistaken?)... So FNPT II IS (also?) 'Instrument ground time' ??
Hence my confusion-
Should I leave the “Instrument ground time” field blank or should I include my 26 hours there AS WELL AS entering it in the field pertaining to "FNPTII hours"???
regards,
John.
