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OAT (Oxford) - the thread, reborn (Part XXVII)!

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OAT (Oxford) - the thread, reborn (Part XXVII)!

Old 30th Jun 2006, 11:22
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OAT (Oxford) - the thread, reborn (Part XXVII)!

I'm considering doing my fATPL training with OATS after I get my PPL/150hrs done. Is the JOC (jet orientation course) worth doing - will it improve my airline job prospects or should I just stop at the CPL+MER+IR+MCC stage.

Hard hat on.

Flashart.
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Old 30th Jun 2006, 12:11
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If money is tight make sure you look around at other schools before choosing.
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Old 30th Jun 2006, 12:27
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My advise would be, do your CPL/ME/IR and then apply to CTC.
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Old 1st Jul 2006, 06:40
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I asked (separately) a number of TREs/TRIs & Training Cpts I work with about doing a JOC earlier this year, and all of them replied that it didn't make any difference to either job prospects with their outfit (actually a 737 EFIS-equipped low-cost operator) or with respect to flying ability. They called it marketing hype on the part of the FTOs and recommended to save the cash for practice sim sessions when you have a confirmed interview; it seems more useful since you can then practice actual sim check ride profiles.

Cheers
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Old 1st Jul 2006, 08:18
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Thanks for the replies,

Mercenary Pilot - are you saying I shouldn't do MCC - is this something that CTC cover?

Flashart
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Old 1st Jul 2006, 09:24
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The CTC scheme is an MCC with a bit more on top that can place you with an airline.

All the details are in the CTC thread.
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Old 1st Jul 2006, 09:56
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Mercenary Pilot - are you saying I shouldn't do MCC - is this something that CTC cover?
Hi

Yeah the CTC scheme covers the MCC and is also a JOC. All the guys I know who went through CTC have been placed with an Airline.

A JOC on its own is pretty worthless, its doesn’t give you anything official and you certainly don’t need one to get you through a type rating.
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Old 11th Jul 2006, 08:35
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OAT (Oxford) - the thread, reborn (Part XXVII)!

Hello

Please can somebody advise what £60k actually gets you at Oxford, that you won't find at another school?

I understand two main factors are...

1. Oxford prides itself on professionalism

2. It has the links with the major airlines that are second-to-none

...but is the training that much better?

...and, if so, does that mean that other schools are falling short in some way?

Why is it that another school cannot raise the quality (or perception of such) to the level that the recruiting airlines obviously need AND keep it at a fair price?

I cannot help thinking that many trusting students are being ripped off by the country's 'apparent' no. 1 school.

Your comments please...

Gez
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Old 11th Jul 2006, 08:46
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I cannot help thinking that many trusting students are being ripped off by the country's 'apparent' no. 1 school.
I cant see how its a rip-off, nobody forces students to go there. There are other integrated schools with close airline ties. FTE have just announced a link up with GB airways.

Yer' Pays yer' money, yer' take yer' choice.
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Old 11th Jul 2006, 08:55
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Granted, it is your own decison...

...but , to a certain degree, you are forced to go there - as the job offers with the big airlines are orchestrated through Oxford

So, if you want a job, you need to pay the price - which I feel is unfair.

Gez
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Old 11th Jul 2006, 09:08
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£60k is a decent amount to get you to ATPL frozen stage.

Check out the site, order the brochure (i did) and you see exactly what you get for your £60k.
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Old 11th Jul 2006, 09:46
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Other FTOs have the same level of professionalism. They also have equally strong links with airlines. FTE, CTC, Cabair, etc. will train you to the same standard as OAT, if not better. Nobody forces students to go to OAT. Job offers with airlines are not orchestrated only through OAT, they are the same in most FTOs, with the exception of CTC who provide the best employment prospects. Would you not be happy flying in GA, small turboprop outfits, etc., if you couldn't get a job with the "big airlines"? It is still flying y'know. There is no guarantee that you will get to fly a jet straight off the bat. For £60k elsewhere (integrated or CTC) you get food and accomodation included with your training. OAT have an unnecessary JOC which adds to their price, and their accom. is a rip-off.
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Old 11th Jul 2006, 14:57
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True. Nobody is forcing you to go to one FTO or another.
At OAT I was impressed with the facilities, the customer service, and the employment prospects - which from my perspective were comparably 'better' than other FTO's (looked at Cabair and FTE). For me, it was a logical choice.
I chose OAT after what I felt was careful consideration between the options available to me, the amount of money I had available and the likelihood of securing a job once I’ve completed training.
Would I be happy flying “small turboprop outfits”? I’d be happy flying paper aeroplanes, but my research has led me to the conclusion that the starting pay is likely to be higher in a ‘jet job’ than any other.
Should it really be all about money? No it shouldn’t. But realistically speaking, an investment such as the one I have just made concludes that I should be earning as much as possible to begin repayments of my hefty loan. After all, it is still flying!
Regardless of whichever of the three FTO’s I could have joined, I would be in the same financial predicament.
I realise I’ve shifted away from the original question – “What do you get for your money at Oxford”?
 I expect you quite probably get the same quality of training that you would at Cabair or FTE.
 I am led to believe (perhaps I was taken in by marketing spin too – but I regard myself as a fairly smart individual and I am certain I chose the best of the three) that my employment prospects are as high as they are ever likely to be by being at this particular flight school.
 I feel that the ground school tuition at OAT is more ‘taught’ than ‘self-taught’. Not that I’ve been spoon fed all my life – but I personally prefer a regular teaching programme – a lectured system followed by a bit of self-discipline and motivation getting you to consolidate and understand what you have been taught in your own time. I didn’t find this style of teaching to be at the same level at other FTE’s as OAT.
 I can’t say whether or not the JOC is a waste of money or not. Given that many airlines would want you to complete a sim-ride of some sort – 40 hours in a 737 simulator is likely to give you one hell of an edge against someone who is fresh out of multi-engine training. I know for a fact that if an airline asked me to demonstrate my skills in a 737 sim after 40 hours practice – I would have thought I’d be pretty good at it.
All in all – you may not get any more for your money than you would at any other FTO. It’s all about where you feel comfortable, where you feel you can bring out the best in yourself, and ultimately, where you think you’re most likely to secure a job.
I’m thrilled with my choice. And I’m entirely confident that I’ll stand a great chance of gaining employment on completion of the course.
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Old 11th Jul 2006, 20:29
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How is that different to any other integrated FTO?

It costs more
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Old 11th Jul 2006, 21:58
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Originally Posted by Boing7117
40 hours in a 737 simulator is likely to give you one hell of an edge against someone who is fresh out of multi-engine training. I know for a fact that if an airline asked me to demonstrate my skills in a 737 sim after 40 hours practice.
Not to belittle your choice, but 40 hours in the Oxford course means 20 MCC+20 JOC. which , from what I understand, could be done in just about any sim. The emphasis of this course is not for familarity with 737 specific operations but flying at jet speeds. The sim itself is just an FNPT II calibrated like a 737, not the type used for type ratings.
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Old 11th Jul 2006, 22:14
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The sim itself is just an FNPT II calibrated like a 737, not the type used for type ratings.
I was under the impression that it was something other (better) than an FNPT II?

Someone who has used it can answer authoritatively.

Last edited by Lucifer; 11th Jul 2006 at 22:41.
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Old 11th Jul 2006, 22:35
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I can assure you that the OAT device is qualified as no more than an FNPT2 (MCC) and handles like a generic twin jet - exactly as an FNPT2 should. A colleague who has flown it says that its handling qualities are not entirely unlike a B737 (or any other twin jet of a similar size, come to that). I believe that it is similar to the one that used to be at WMU, Battle Creek (a Frasca device with electric motion?) - if so, I too can vouch for the vagueness of its similarity to a real aeroplane.

Lucifer - you clearly know nothing of what you speak.
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Old 11th Jul 2006, 22:42
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I do apologise - http://www.oxfordaviation.net/tour/tour-06.htm

I did clearly state that I was not sure below though...(before my edit)
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Old 12th Jul 2006, 07:52
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Originally Posted by GerryFlyer
.. as the job offers with the big airlines are orchestrated through Oxford
Who told you that? Oxford? What a surprise!

That's a bit like Sainsburys telling you they're the only ones that sell decent turkeys at Christmas. Do you believe them, too?

Scroggs
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Old 12th Jul 2006, 08:55
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Oxford B737 sim

The Oxford 737 'sim' in in fact an FNPT2.

It is only an FNPT2 because the visuals aren't quite up to the level required for type rating sim and it doesn't have VNAV. This is why it couldn't be used for type ratings. In terms on handling qualities, I couldn't tell the difference between the OAT sim and the ones I flew on my 737 type rating - they handled just the same.

However, saying this, the sims and the actual aircraft do NOT feel the same! I found the sim good for learning procedures, SOP's and dealing with emergencies but it doesn't handle in the same way that the aircraft does - the 737 is much nicer!

Hope this helps.
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