DID OXFORD FIRE BEST INSTRUCTOR ????
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DID OXFORD FIRE BEST INSTRUCTOR ????
I have heard a rumour, that's what prune is all about isn't it... verifying rumours.... that the self-styled Airline Training Centre which likes to think of itself as the centre of the universe has fired a particular member of its groundschool training staff for the unforgivable, dispicable and treacherous act of actually advising students of said organisation as to what they should revise for internal examinations.
Said individual, a gentleman of the highest reccomendation was (some time ago) thoughtful and caring enough to allow students such as me, a copy of CD rom reedback exam questions; the use of which individually led to high pass rates of such students. The CD in question was "banned" at the said organisation for not being "approved" by the bunch of retired ex-forces navigators (frustrated failed pilots) who have forgotten they are no longer in the Officers' Mess at RAF Forgotten-In-Haste. The truth of the matter in this case being that the monumentally usful CD was not written and audited by said top brass and therefore in their opinion (given their characteristic arrogance) was sub-standard. The lack of substance et al of said organisation's own training manuals and feedback will not be elaborated on, but is apparent to all who have previously and are currently at, it would appear, its mercy.
The gentleman in question, if of course this rumour is true, cared for nothing more in his job than the fast, effective and continuous success of students whom he recognised as devoted, determined individuals who would not allow the bigotry of the parent organisation to stifle their progress into the industry.
My hat goes off to him, he was and is, one of the single most devoted and exceptional tutors I have encountered during my entire education, and I have since my success in groundschool considered his guidance pivotal to my high average.
The reasons behind the alleged dissmissal (confirmed by 2 parameters) clearly represents the willingness of the employer to put politics and ego before the needs of students, while this splendid veteran of groundschool tuition is put out to graze, many remnant members of the officers' club feast on their age old clientalistic job security. No matter how incompetent, unqualified or uncaring they may be, or how egoistic, bitter and unimaginative their tuition, they on the other hand remain fermly rooted.
The nature of this is typical of the attitude, bahaviour and bigotry of this organisation, the bottom line here is that the organisation in question will, through its own inadequacies, have lost one of the most valuable assets available to them. While that asset on the other hand is far better off without them, the real losers here are those students now deprived of one of the most imaginative, inovative and focused ground instructors there is.
SB OUT
Said individual, a gentleman of the highest reccomendation was (some time ago) thoughtful and caring enough to allow students such as me, a copy of CD rom reedback exam questions; the use of which individually led to high pass rates of such students. The CD in question was "banned" at the said organisation for not being "approved" by the bunch of retired ex-forces navigators (frustrated failed pilots) who have forgotten they are no longer in the Officers' Mess at RAF Forgotten-In-Haste. The truth of the matter in this case being that the monumentally usful CD was not written and audited by said top brass and therefore in their opinion (given their characteristic arrogance) was sub-standard. The lack of substance et al of said organisation's own training manuals and feedback will not be elaborated on, but is apparent to all who have previously and are currently at, it would appear, its mercy.
The gentleman in question, if of course this rumour is true, cared for nothing more in his job than the fast, effective and continuous success of students whom he recognised as devoted, determined individuals who would not allow the bigotry of the parent organisation to stifle their progress into the industry.
My hat goes off to him, he was and is, one of the single most devoted and exceptional tutors I have encountered during my entire education, and I have since my success in groundschool considered his guidance pivotal to my high average.
The reasons behind the alleged dissmissal (confirmed by 2 parameters) clearly represents the willingness of the employer to put politics and ego before the needs of students, while this splendid veteran of groundschool tuition is put out to graze, many remnant members of the officers' club feast on their age old clientalistic job security. No matter how incompetent, unqualified or uncaring they may be, or how egoistic, bitter and unimaginative their tuition, they on the other hand remain fermly rooted.
The nature of this is typical of the attitude, bahaviour and bigotry of this organisation, the bottom line here is that the organisation in question will, through its own inadequacies, have lost one of the most valuable assets available to them. While that asset on the other hand is far better off without them, the real losers here are those students now deprived of one of the most imaginative, inovative and focused ground instructors there is.
SB OUT
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Soviet Bloc - there's nothing new here. The said company has always taken the attitude that anyone showing initiative and more than a modicum of excellence above the lowest common denominator will not fit in to the organisation as they are a threat to the status quo (i.e. the military attitude of the circa 1960’s & ’70’s) as well as the a threat to the over-inflated ego’s of the management – who was it who said: “It’s my train set and I’ll do what ever I want with it”?
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SB, I don't know the truth or otherwise of your allegation, and I care less. I do, however, object to your characterisation of the RAF and those who seved within it as unwarranted and unjustifiable.
The RAF is an organisation of unrivalled professionalism, with a record of achievement, both in war and in peace, that is quite exceptional. The vast majority of individuals who have served, and now serve, in the RAF are of the highest quality both personally and professionally. As an organisation, it is put in harm's way every day in the defence of your way of life. The 'navigators', of which you speak so disparagingly, were part of the front line of that organisation and, as such, were the most likely to have been placed in danger in the course of their duties. And, never forget, the very reason that you live in a society where you may freely criticise your betters is because a generation of people in the RAF and other services gave their lives and their livelihoods for your freedom.
There may well be problems within OAT, and your tutor may or may not have been dismissed, and that dismissal may or may not have been justified, Whatever the story, it has nothing to do with the RAF, its procedures, traditions or anything else.
The professionals who serve, and have served, in the RAF are at a level you can only aspire to. As yet, you are not fit to clean the floor they walk on. Your attitude disgusts me.
But then perhaps your nom-de-plume has some meaning?
Scroggs
The RAF is an organisation of unrivalled professionalism, with a record of achievement, both in war and in peace, that is quite exceptional. The vast majority of individuals who have served, and now serve, in the RAF are of the highest quality both personally and professionally. As an organisation, it is put in harm's way every day in the defence of your way of life. The 'navigators', of which you speak so disparagingly, were part of the front line of that organisation and, as such, were the most likely to have been placed in danger in the course of their duties. And, never forget, the very reason that you live in a society where you may freely criticise your betters is because a generation of people in the RAF and other services gave their lives and their livelihoods for your freedom.
There may well be problems within OAT, and your tutor may or may not have been dismissed, and that dismissal may or may not have been justified, Whatever the story, it has nothing to do with the RAF, its procedures, traditions or anything else.
The professionals who serve, and have served, in the RAF are at a level you can only aspire to. As yet, you are not fit to clean the floor they walk on. Your attitude disgusts me.
But then perhaps your nom-de-plume has some meaning?
Scroggs
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Unfortunately, soviet bloc, is 100% right in what he says. The gentleman in question was no doubt OAT's best instructor and the only one that genuinely cared for his students, was always approachable and ready to help and my exam passes in his subjects are 100% down to him.
Sadly, he was not an OAT man, and didn't fly the OAT flag because all he cared about was getting his students to pass the exams and continuously got into trouble with management over this. Typical of OAT really to keep getting the best instructors into trouble. As I understand it, the reasons for his dismissal were largely a setup by some of the management.
What a shame to see the best man they had go like this. OAT have shot themselves in the foot big time here, and as has already been said, unfortunately the only losers here are the students. This FTO prides itself as being the world's best, but quite frankly, their treatment of customers and staff is disgusting to say the very least.
On a brighter note, I have been informed that the gentleman in question has been offered an instructors' job with a well known FTO on the Dorset coast, so I'd like to wish him all the best with his job there.
Sadly, he was not an OAT man, and didn't fly the OAT flag because all he cared about was getting his students to pass the exams and continuously got into trouble with management over this. Typical of OAT really to keep getting the best instructors into trouble. As I understand it, the reasons for his dismissal were largely a setup by some of the management.
What a shame to see the best man they had go like this. OAT have shot themselves in the foot big time here, and as has already been said, unfortunately the only losers here are the students. This FTO prides itself as being the world's best, but quite frankly, their treatment of customers and staff is disgusting to say the very least.
On a brighter note, I have been informed that the gentleman in question has been offered an instructors' job with a well known FTO on the Dorset coast, so I'd like to wish him all the best with his job there.
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Scroggs
As yet, you are not fit to clean the floor they walk on. Your attitude disgusts me.
Above comment doesn't fit with the chivalrous and professional code of honour that you so rightly and passionately highlight ???
As yet, you are not fit to clean the floor they walk on. Your attitude disgusts me.
Above comment doesn't fit with the chivalrous and professional code of honour that you so rightly and passionately highlight ???
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a copy of CD rom reedback exam questions; the use of which individually led to high pass rates of such students
However that said, I think it’s totally unfair some students have access to this CD while others have to struggle and learn the subjects properly. It’s a 2 tier system and totally undervalues what most of us worked very hard for.
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Originally Posted by unfazed
Scroggs
As yet, you are not fit to clean the floor they walk on. Your attitude disgusts me.
Above comment doesn't fit with the chivalrous and professional code of honour that you so rightly and passionately highlight ???
As yet, you are not fit to clean the floor they walk on. Your attitude disgusts me.
Above comment doesn't fit with the chivalrous and professional code of honour that you so rightly and passionately highlight ???
Scroggs
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the 'sacked' instructor
It sounds like this guy is the one I need to speak to (just having 74% in the met exam. Not for the CD but for one to one tuition. If anyone would care to PM me I would be grateful, anonymity preserved of course.
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People, if you wish to discuss the benefits or otherwise of a military influence on civilian aviation, the discussion has been moved here. I suspect you might get a lively response.
Please leave this thread for the discussion of the matter that soviet bloc brought up without going off at a tangent (any further than I already have!).
Scroggs
Please leave this thread for the discussion of the matter that soviet bloc brought up without going off at a tangent (any further than I already have!).
Scroggs
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OAT
I believe that it is not just the ground instruction that is lacking at OAT but also many other aspects. For example, their promise to help sort out interviews and jobs when you first enquire about what they offer on their course and the realisation that once you have signed on then they don't care as long as they have your money. Oh and they will of course claim responsibility when you do get a job eventhough they had nothing to do with it!!!!
Relying on their name which at this rate won't last long.
Relying on their name which at this rate won't last long.
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Hasn't this always been the case with the innovative and/or most imaginative teachers who quickly get branded "modern day methods", "troublemaker", "new age teaching hippy", etc.....
No one likes change especially with those at OAT that are so embedded into their own self belief that any 'innovation' is seen as potentially hazardous to 'their' future.
No one likes change especially with those at OAT that are so embedded into their own self belief that any 'innovation' is seen as potentially hazardous to 'their' future.
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very true
POL1W
absolutely, when I was there the standard procedure was for OAT to put forward students of their own choice to airlines and fob the rest of us off with nonsence like "those who met the criteria have been selected, and we can't tell you what the criteria are..." bla bla bla, even though those selected were by no means exceptional nor even similar types of people. seems the only criteria for getting into OAT itself is having the £. I got myself a job and if I'd gone to my local flying school I'd have saved thousands and still got my job.
If ever there was an organisation surviving as you say on image and image alone it's OAT.
absolutely, when I was there the standard procedure was for OAT to put forward students of their own choice to airlines and fob the rest of us off with nonsence like "those who met the criteria have been selected, and we can't tell you what the criteria are..." bla bla bla, even though those selected were by no means exceptional nor even similar types of people. seems the only criteria for getting into OAT itself is having the £. I got myself a job and if I'd gone to my local flying school I'd have saved thousands and still got my job.
If ever there was an organisation surviving as you say on image and image alone it's OAT.
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boogie-nicey
Giving out an illegal CD containing the ATPL Question bank is hardly a "modern day method". Oh wait, maybe it is.
Don’t know if OAT is good/bad but what I do know is easyJet are short of pilots. I’m a modular trained CPL/IR with commercial experience (I’m also 737 rated) and I have been rejected without even getting an interview. OAT students (150 hrs, no TR or real world experience) have been taken on, so obviously the image DOES work.
P.S. Good luck guys the 737 is a great aircraft to fly.
Giving out an illegal CD containing the ATPL Question bank is hardly a "modern day method". Oh wait, maybe it is.
Don’t know if OAT is good/bad but what I do know is easyJet are short of pilots. I’m a modular trained CPL/IR with commercial experience (I’m also 737 rated) and I have been rejected without even getting an interview. OAT students (150 hrs, no TR or real world experience) have been taken on, so obviously the image DOES work.
P.S. Good luck guys the 737 is a great aircraft to fly.
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I cringe every time I hear stories like Mercenary Pilot's (got all stuff + commercial exp.) and yet gets sidelined by the fast track brigade from OAT.
MP: Sorry to hear that dude, keep acculumating the flight time, next door opens and hopefully won't close in your face...
MP: Sorry to hear that dude, keep acculumating the flight time, next door opens and hopefully won't close in your face...
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Soviet Bloc - We both know what the said individual was up to. It was a little more than just "telling us all what to revise".
He was already on a formal warning, and yet he did the same thing again. What did he expect? I mean seriously?
How narrow minded can you be? That is one of the most un-professional things I have read on here in a long time. Shame on you.
On a side note, he was a true gentleman. Very helpful and yes, a very good instructor. He will be missed.
For those thinking about going to OAT - Please don't believe the shi*e that is on here and that has been posted. The groundschool is absolutely superb, you will not find any instructor who wont sit down with you to go over something, or even just have a chat if the work load is getting too much.
As for the job front, well im not in a position to comment, but nearly 100 grads placed this year already, 190 odd last year.
dlav
He was already on a formal warning, and yet he did the same thing again. What did he expect? I mean seriously?
the bunch of retired ex-forces navigators (frustrated failed pilots)
On a side note, he was a true gentleman. Very helpful and yes, a very good instructor. He will be missed.
For those thinking about going to OAT - Please don't believe the shi*e that is on here and that has been posted. The groundschool is absolutely superb, you will not find any instructor who wont sit down with you to go over something, or even just have a chat if the work load is getting too much.
As for the job front, well im not in a position to comment, but nearly 100 grads placed this year already, 190 odd last year.
dlav
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The instructor in question was truly excellent at his job, he didnt do it exactly the Oxford way but if it wasnt for him, i know i would havent moved onto the USA to continue my flight training.
He had a great grasp of what was needed out of the students for the exams, what a pity that Oxford students are going to miss out on the experience being tought by him. Dudes, dudettes, ******* rock on.
Oxford still has plenty of excellent instructors, but its such a pity to lose this man. I can easily say that he was my favourite instructor. He always had time for students, I dont think Oxford have realised this, no time was a bad time to come talk to him about a problem with a certain topic- 24/7. He honestly encouraged you to ring him at any time if you had a problem with a topic. Better a half pissed instructor etc etc.
We all know where he wanted to place that slowly revolving pineapple!
He had a great grasp of what was needed out of the students for the exams, what a pity that Oxford students are going to miss out on the experience being tought by him. Dudes, dudettes, ******* rock on.
Oxford still has plenty of excellent instructors, but its such a pity to lose this man. I can easily say that he was my favourite instructor. He always had time for students, I dont think Oxford have realised this, no time was a bad time to come talk to him about a problem with a certain topic- 24/7. He honestly encouraged you to ring him at any time if you had a problem with a topic. Better a half pissed instructor etc etc.
We all know where he wanted to place that slowly revolving pineapple!
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He was certainly one of the best, no doubt- imagine that- being fired and your only crime is to want to help students! Bizarre. Ground instruction ranges from mediocre to poor (except for some excpetions) and we were taught the complex subject matter of gyroscopes with little more than a baked bean tin lid and a pencil. Don't believe the glossy brochures!
His epitath will read as follows...
" Rock on dudes, rock on...ok...not gonna mess about here.....I'll tell you what you need to know- what you need to know....take a note....."
His epitath will read as follows...
" Rock on dudes, rock on...ok...not gonna mess about here.....I'll tell you what you need to know- what you need to know....take a note....."
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As someone who did part of their training at OAT I'd be very grateful if someone could PM to tell me who it was that got the boot, if it's who I think it is then I'm disgusted.
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I cringe every time I hear stories like Mercenary Pilot's (got all stuff + commercial exp.) and yet gets sidelined by the fast track brigade from OAT.
MP: Sorry to hear that dude, keep acculumating the flight time, next door opens and hopefully won't close in your face...
MP: Sorry to hear that dude, keep acculumating the flight time, next door opens and hopefully won't close in your face...
) I'll be just fine.
- imagine that- being fired and your only crime is to want to help students!