DID OXFORD FIRE BEST INSTRUCTOR ????
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seems selection boards concentrate on - are you a clone who fits into OAT's subjective idea of what every pilot should be, and have you taken all the crap OAT hurl at you for 18 months and still come out with a smile on your face saying 'thanks so much for doing me a favour'
telling stories for 75% of the lesson then finishing with 5 minutes teaching
If the lessons are 20 minutes I would be very surprised...
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If the instructor in question is an avid reader of these threads, feel free to voice your feelings on here mate. We all know you are a top guy! No doubt you are now back in work and hopefully not needing to conform with the OAT Gentlemans Club
Good luck to you!
Good luck to you!
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Lucifer
that's exactly what I'm talking about, congratulations on your brainwashing,
I suppose you now believe it's the same deliberate conditioning for the real world that will make you lose flights due to unneccesary incompetance or get delayed by weeks because of managerial skrew ups.... well maybe, of course this will happen in the real world, probably even more so, but when you're paying for it through the nose one would appreciate an attitude of 'sorry we messed up' rather than 'shutup we're doing it to prepare you for the real world'
that's exactly what I'm talking about, congratulations on your brainwashing,
I suppose you now believe it's the same deliberate conditioning for the real world that will make you lose flights due to unneccesary incompetance or get delayed by weeks because of managerial skrew ups.... well maybe, of course this will happen in the real world, probably even more so, but when you're paying for it through the nose one would appreciate an attitude of 'sorry we messed up' rather than 'shutup we're doing it to prepare you for the real world'
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dlav- I'm not sufficiently childish to hurl abuse at you- but I'm not on here to tell lies- facts are facts- and it does get worse! Like I said, depends what you're used to and if it came out of your own pocket I guess. I'm simply saying that I expected a great deal more from the private sector and have been sorely disappointed- I'm not interested whether or not you think they are lies or not- I am reporting these events as FACTS. Unless you were there next to me you have no idea whether this went on or not. Can you remember your lessons being flippantly abandoned at school or sixth form- no chance- teacher would have been out the door like a shot- never to work again. Most lecturers at Ox wouldn't last five minutes in the public sector. The FREE THINKERS amongst those reading this thread will appreciate what I've said as the truth. But again, if you get the 14 at the end of it- who cares? Just let's have less of the brainwashing hyperbole and marketing claptrap. It's obvious that the guy who was dismissed didn't swallow the pap in the brochure- and they didn't like that.
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Oh deary me, some of you are in for a shock if you think it's going to be any different when you are employed on the line. Do you actually read any of the airline threads in these forums?
I can't believe I'm going to have to sit next to some of you bozos.
I can't believe I'm going to have to sit next to some of you bozos.
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I have ummed and ahhed about replying to this thread as I am actually starting in Oxford in August.
The reason why I chose it, well, above all else it was the graduation statistics. Sure, it might be more expensive than the rest, but above all else, if the majority of students do go on to get jobs in a shortish period of time, then who am I to complain? As I am putting down a substantial amount of money for this course, I am convinced that Oxford was the best option for this. Obviously, there will be a fair degree of spin said, but since when does a company not use spin as a marketing technique? All other FTOs are exactly the same though in that aspect - I spoke to a few students at Cabair who were experiencing quite large delays in recieving their training. You don't so much read about that in here, except if OAT had done that, hell would hath had no fury amongst the writers in here.
Above all else though, it is just the most infuriating thing to read some of your comments on the school. Fair enough, you can comment and there's noone going to stop you on that... the fact is that OAT has been running for a long time, and although more expensive than other rival schools, it will get you that magical piece of paper with "licence" written on it at the end. What is pathetic is the fact that some people chose to continue their crusades against the school in such a place. Shame on you, you should be encouraging "wannabes" and not condemning our decisions for which FTO we chose to go to.
I looked around Oxford and must say that from the very start, I was made to feel at home. The staff were friendly and polite, but above all else, what really helped to influence my mind was the fact that all the current students I have spoken to (and I have spoken to quite a few, at various stages of their training) have not had a bad word to say about the training they have recieved. Also, OAT must be doing something right, or else Thomas Cook would have taken their scheme elsewhere.
Obviously, I believe that you cannot comment on something unless you have experienced it yourself - so it's all very well with you guys on here putting OAT down at every single opportunity, but above all else, I must wonder if any of you have actually experienced any of the training that has been offered there.
Anyway, I think I should probably get off my soap box and expect the fall out from this to come any minute, so I might just go and take shelter... but above all else, you should be actively encouraging students and wannabe pilots. And not spending a vast amount of time convincing people that they are wrong to go to OAT. Any school that can get you the licence is good, and any school with a proven record of employment is worth it, be that price £5000 or £15000 more expensive than the others.
Cheers guys,
Chris
The reason why I chose it, well, above all else it was the graduation statistics. Sure, it might be more expensive than the rest, but above all else, if the majority of students do go on to get jobs in a shortish period of time, then who am I to complain? As I am putting down a substantial amount of money for this course, I am convinced that Oxford was the best option for this. Obviously, there will be a fair degree of spin said, but since when does a company not use spin as a marketing technique? All other FTOs are exactly the same though in that aspect - I spoke to a few students at Cabair who were experiencing quite large delays in recieving their training. You don't so much read about that in here, except if OAT had done that, hell would hath had no fury amongst the writers in here.
Above all else though, it is just the most infuriating thing to read some of your comments on the school. Fair enough, you can comment and there's noone going to stop you on that... the fact is that OAT has been running for a long time, and although more expensive than other rival schools, it will get you that magical piece of paper with "licence" written on it at the end. What is pathetic is the fact that some people chose to continue their crusades against the school in such a place. Shame on you, you should be encouraging "wannabes" and not condemning our decisions for which FTO we chose to go to.
I looked around Oxford and must say that from the very start, I was made to feel at home. The staff were friendly and polite, but above all else, what really helped to influence my mind was the fact that all the current students I have spoken to (and I have spoken to quite a few, at various stages of their training) have not had a bad word to say about the training they have recieved. Also, OAT must be doing something right, or else Thomas Cook would have taken their scheme elsewhere.
Obviously, I believe that you cannot comment on something unless you have experienced it yourself - so it's all very well with you guys on here putting OAT down at every single opportunity, but above all else, I must wonder if any of you have actually experienced any of the training that has been offered there.
Anyway, I think I should probably get off my soap box and expect the fall out from this to come any minute, so I might just go and take shelter... but above all else, you should be actively encouraging students and wannabe pilots. And not spending a vast amount of time convincing people that they are wrong to go to OAT. Any school that can get you the licence is good, and any school with a proven record of employment is worth it, be that price £5000 or £15000 more expensive than the others.
Cheers guys,
Chris
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Chris- don't take shelter- come have a pint instead!!!
You'll probably get a job out of it - integrated guys certainly do.
All i do is list some facts from my own personal experience for people to consider that's all. There is plenty of balance in the Oxford V the rest debate.
You might even like the place!!!
GOOD LUCK!!!!!
You'll probably get a job out of it - integrated guys certainly do.
All i do is list some facts from my own personal experience for people to consider that's all. There is plenty of balance in the Oxford V the rest debate.
You might even like the place!!!
GOOD LUCK!!!!!
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Wouldn't say no to a pint right now - just having one of those days I'm afraid - literally, just had to say a goodbye to my long term girlfriend as I just left uni while she continues. So right now, I'm a little touchy. 
But let's not let that interfere with the subject!
But let's not let that interfere with the subject!
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I can only echo microfilter's sentiments, as they are pretty much along the same line as my experiences at OAT. Having said that though, I never wanted anything else but the 14 exam passes and that was exactly what was delivered.
Of course when they show you around the place you are made to feel welcome, albeit in an over-the-top pretend way, rather than being sincere, as I saw every day when people were shown around.
I highly doubt that the fact people get jobs there is attributed to having completed their training at OAT. In fact, having spoken to numerous ex-graduates, they were nothing short of expressing their disgust at OAT, as once their training was completed they were left to their own devices to find a job, and - wait for it - now OAT claim the credit for their employment, even though they did nothing to help them on their way. This applies to integrated and modular students likewise, so don't believe the spin. Yes, OAT students do get jobs, but so do modular students having completed each part of their training in a different establishment, so that argument doesn't really wash with me. Essentially you're on your own once the blue book has been printed.
I'm not saying that everything at OAT is bad, but at the same time, don't take everything they tell you at face value. I did go through the Oxford system and got what I wanted, i.e. my exam passes. I'm also only too aware of their marketing propaganda machine and know only too well about their shortcomings which microfilter has detailed as well. Fact is that once you are enrolled, you are treated like a 12 year old schoolkid, and not given the respect that you are entitled to as a paying customer.
Then again if you like that sort of thing and have 62k to spare, OAT is the place to go. I for one know that it isn't. Food for thought...
Of course when they show you around the place you are made to feel welcome, albeit in an over-the-top pretend way, rather than being sincere, as I saw every day when people were shown around.
I highly doubt that the fact people get jobs there is attributed to having completed their training at OAT. In fact, having spoken to numerous ex-graduates, they were nothing short of expressing their disgust at OAT, as once their training was completed they were left to their own devices to find a job, and - wait for it - now OAT claim the credit for their employment, even though they did nothing to help them on their way. This applies to integrated and modular students likewise, so don't believe the spin. Yes, OAT students do get jobs, but so do modular students having completed each part of their training in a different establishment, so that argument doesn't really wash with me. Essentially you're on your own once the blue book has been printed.
I'm not saying that everything at OAT is bad, but at the same time, don't take everything they tell you at face value. I did go through the Oxford system and got what I wanted, i.e. my exam passes. I'm also only too aware of their marketing propaganda machine and know only too well about their shortcomings which microfilter has detailed as well. Fact is that once you are enrolled, you are treated like a 12 year old schoolkid, and not given the respect that you are entitled to as a paying customer.
Then again if you like that sort of thing and have 62k to spare, OAT is the place to go. I for one know that it isn't. Food for thought...
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November Sierra is one of those with his eyes wide open- that's all we ask. The website now claims that the 'Waypoint' scheme is 'flexible modular training'. What's flexible about it? Do it all here or clear off! They also claim that 'waypoint is a brand new concept'. In what way is it so? I think the concept is that they will now recommend mod graduates as they do integrated. They used to post the success figures for both modular and integrated- but have since changed the format on the site to disguise the fact that there was little difference between employment figures. Heed NS' words- he has been there!
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Can there ever be a post about OAT without it descending into a bashing??
There are plenty of people who come through OAT and only have good words to say - it only tends to be the bitter/disillusioned ones that post though.
OAT is what you make of it. I had a fantastic time, great groundschool tuition coming out with high 90's average, really good instructors who somehow managed to get me through the IR and some good advice at the end about finding myself a job. If you work hard and get the results then you WILL be put forward at the selection boards. It's the airlines that set the requirements not OAT so if you want the job then get the grades.
It makes me laugh when people say "OAT left me to find a job myself after finishing" - seriously, do they want Oxford to hold their hand in the interview too?! It's a tough industry and if you don't have the initiative to do your own job hunting then there's no hope.....!
Anyway whatever gripes people have about OAT they ARE doing something right, they get people through and with some pretty good results too. Only 2 from my class of 15 are still looking (and the last of the class finished in Feb).
Chris - you'll have a great time! If I had to do it all again I would still choose OAT. Good luck with it!
There are plenty of people who come through OAT and only have good words to say - it only tends to be the bitter/disillusioned ones that post though.
OAT is what you make of it. I had a fantastic time, great groundschool tuition coming out with high 90's average, really good instructors who somehow managed to get me through the IR and some good advice at the end about finding myself a job. If you work hard and get the results then you WILL be put forward at the selection boards. It's the airlines that set the requirements not OAT so if you want the job then get the grades.
It makes me laugh when people say "OAT left me to find a job myself after finishing" - seriously, do they want Oxford to hold their hand in the interview too?! It's a tough industry and if you don't have the initiative to do your own job hunting then there's no hope.....!
Anyway whatever gripes people have about OAT they ARE doing something right, they get people through and with some pretty good results too. Only 2 from my class of 15 are still looking (and the last of the class finished in Feb).
Chris - you'll have a great time! If I had to do it all again I would still choose OAT. Good luck with it!
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The fact is that other FTOs provide the around the same quality of training (some better, some worse), for less €€€s. With regard to schools claiming credit for the employment of those left to their own devices, that happens everywhere. Why else would Ryanair or Cityjet be mentioned on their websites? That is irrelevant when comparing different FTOs. Thomas Cook also hire out of CTC, and dare I say, if they need even more low-hour FOs, they would take their business to FTE. And apparently, OATs employment figures also include people in the hold pools for the respective airlines. I would be interested in the ratio of people on the course to those employed with airlines after graduation at Oxford.
"Food for thought..." Exactly what I was thinking. The price of food and accomodation in addition to the hefty €90k price tag is incredible. At least in FTE, that is all looked after. And the course size is smaller in FTE, which I think is an advantage.
"Food for thought..." Exactly what I was thinking. The price of food and accomodation in addition to the hefty €90k price tag is incredible. At least in FTE, that is all looked after. And the course size is smaller in FTE, which I think is an advantage.
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"
let me guess... you never raised a complaint about a thing at OAT and sailed straight into a job because you smiled all day every day at everyone in the place,
yeh right I know plenty of guys with an average of 90+ and first timers in all flight tests who get kicked to the kerb while others get put forward for 2 or 3 airlines, seems nothing other than the personal opinions of the crusties on the 'selection board' a board which essentially presides over the question 'do WE like you enough to give you the help we promised you?'
100% RIGHT alot of us got a job off our own back, and fair credit to them, just don't let OAT take credit for the hard work and effort of those individuals whom in most cases they failed.
Originally Posted by Elixir
Can there ever be a post about OAT without it descending into a bashing?? There are plenty of people who come through OAT and only have good words to say"
let me guess... you never raised a complaint about a thing at OAT and sailed straight into a job because you smiled all day every day at everyone in the place,
"If you work hard and get the results then you WILL be put forward at the selection boards."
"It makes me laugh when people say "OAT left me to find a job myself after finishing" - seriously, do they want Oxford to hold their hand in the interview too?! It's a tough industry and if you don't have the initiative to do your own job hunting then there's no hope.....!"
100% RIGHT alot of us got a job off our own back, and fair credit to them, just don't let OAT take credit for the hard work and effort of those individuals whom in most cases they failed.
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Exactly! I didn't smile every day and was quite open about anything I wasnt 100% happy with. And I still got put forward to an airline. No school is perfect including OAT - it just deserves some credit in amidst the bashing. Ok so it doesnt work for everyone but it did for me and lots of others.
Anyway I've said what I wanted and am drawing a line under it now.
Are you still the master of chocolate truffles??!
Anyway I've said what I wanted and am drawing a line under it now.
Are you still the master of chocolate truffles??!
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exilir
indeed sir I am still the master and always will be NONE CAN RESIST THEM
and who might you be - pm me
however I have always been willing to give the pilluks credit where it's due and have never advised people decisively against OAT, in fact if I had to do the whole thing again I would have to consider seriously wether or not to go the same route, but would not count out OAT after all their bull does seem to count in alot of airline recruitment offices,
just that i was nieve once at an open day and bought into the spin, want to warn others against the bitter dissapointment that can and may be experienced at thier cost
by the way do you want some more truffles ??
indeed sir I am still the master and always will be NONE CAN RESIST THEM
and who might you be - pm me
however I have always been willing to give the pilluks credit where it's due and have never advised people decisively against OAT, in fact if I had to do the whole thing again I would have to consider seriously wether or not to go the same route, but would not count out OAT after all their bull does seem to count in alot of airline recruitment offices,
just that i was nieve once at an open day and bought into the spin, want to warn others against the bitter dissapointment that can and may be experienced at thier cost
by the way do you want some more truffles ??
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Well for over 5 months, not one lecturer has failed to show up, classes most certainly are not randomly cancelled either. Make of that what you will people.
I appreciate that you may have had a different experience than me, and Im sorry for you if you feel let down, but I for one cannot yet fault them.
dlav
I appreciate that you may have had a different experience than me, and Im sorry for you if you feel let down, but I for one cannot yet fault them.
dlav
Currently, you can have all the qualifications - and even a type rating - but the harsh facts are these:
According to major airline recruiters, around 50% of fATPL holders are unemployable. Because they are NOT the type of people the airlines wish to employ.
This view is shared by several folk high up in the CAA. Indeed one only has to sit at the door of the Belgrano on an exam day watching the candidates as they come in to know who the future unemployable are....
At least aptitude testing sorts out those who are unlikely to succeed in an airline career. I would be very surprised if 'Oxford' have suspended selection for integrated courses.
Reading the posts on this thread, it is pretty obvious who will be unlikely to be offered airline employment. Take notice of your seniors at Oxford and learn from them. Vociferous kids with poor command of either spoken or written English will be lucky indeed if their applications are even looked at.
Harsh, isn't it. But it's the reality of life.
According to major airline recruiters, around 50% of fATPL holders are unemployable. Because they are NOT the type of people the airlines wish to employ.
This view is shared by several folk high up in the CAA. Indeed one only has to sit at the door of the Belgrano on an exam day watching the candidates as they come in to know who the future unemployable are....
At least aptitude testing sorts out those who are unlikely to succeed in an airline career. I would be very surprised if 'Oxford' have suspended selection for integrated courses.
Reading the posts on this thread, it is pretty obvious who will be unlikely to be offered airline employment. Take notice of your seniors at Oxford and learn from them. Vociferous kids with poor command of either spoken or written English will be lucky indeed if their applications are even looked at.
Harsh, isn't it. But it's the reality of life.
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BEagle, If that was supposed to be an insult hurled my way, then regretfully I have to inform you that I do have a job, and a job with a well known UK airline, which OAT no doubt took the credit for, but I got on my own devices. Fact is that the picture OAT paint, of what a supposedly ideal airline pilot should be like, does not match reality. OAT, as has been mentioned before, like robot personalities, and anyone who doesn't fit in that mould is deemed unsuitable.
dlav, I'm glad things have worked out well for you, I really am. However, the reality during my time was different, you weren't there and consequently wouldn't know. Do NOT dismiss me as a liar, you weren't there.
dlav, I'm glad things have worked out well for you, I really am. However, the reality during my time was different, you weren't there and consequently wouldn't know. Do NOT dismiss me as a liar, you weren't there.
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BEagle
apptitude testing is only as subjective as those half baked Freudians who write the tests for £500/hr subsequently highly unreliable.
However do agree with your pitch that many people are 'unemployable' however that won't stop training schools taking their money.
N.S bang on the button as usual
apptitude testing is only as subjective as those half baked Freudians who write the tests for £500/hr subsequently highly unreliable.
However do agree with your pitch that many people are 'unemployable' however that won't stop training schools taking their money.
N.S bang on the button as usual