Licence Conversion to JAA
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Multi-engine conversion to a JAA
I have a question regarding converting a multi-engine rating to a JAA one, I read you just do about 1.5 hours in a twin, is there a skill test invalid, and do I also have to pay for an examier, 671 pounds?
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Hi, just finished my conversion from FAA. Stand to be corrected, but here's my 2 eurocents' worth (and I strongly suggest you check that with your relevant CAA):
1) Correct. A pain though and does take some time. Read the books through just once and then put all your effort in practicing question banks again and again.
2.1 Yes
2.2 No, time while you were the safety pilot doesn't count a penny in JAA-land.
2.3 No. Under JAA it is either dual (with instructor) OR PIC. The only exception is SPIC (student pilot in command), where the student acts as PIC under the supervision of an instructor. This only applies to JAA integrated courses though, so not possible having done FAA training, whether the school was 141 or not. Note though, that any PIC time logged for checkrides (with a pass) does count as PIC under the JAA rules as well.
2.4 Yes and it is probably ok experience for most airlines, BUT (AND A BIG BIG CAUTION HERE): It does NOT count when you apply for a JAA licence! Reason being that the CAA views any time under the hood as P/UT (pilot under training) therefore can't be PIC, but it was neither with an official instructor. So this time simply doesn't exist for the CAA. Very dangerous if you applying for your JAA License with just a little over 200 FAA hours, as you might simply not meet the requirements (incl Cross Country PIC etc). This nearly caught me out, but luckily I had enough 'proper' hours having instructed in the U.S. for a while.
2.5 Yes. You are PIC any time you're bearing the full responsibility for the flight (exception as detailed in 2.4). In the FAA world a new PPL wouldn't log SPIC. If at a later stage (CPL training etc) he logs PIC and Dual Received at the same time, the instructor still remains in command.
2.6 Yes, see 2.5. And if you're flying in actual IMC, you can also log the approach and FAA instrument time (not if you're in VMC). If you're flying under an IFR plan, you can log all time as IFR PIC even for the JAA.
2.7 Definitely check that one with the CAA, but I think only if that plane was requiring a second pilot under the FAA rules as well (not the case for even some Citations!). In any case, you would probably need to hold a relevant type rating to claim hours for the JAA. In the FAA world a type rating is not required in any airplane while acting as SIC in U.S. domestic airspace.
Hope this helps and good luck
7E7
1) Correct. A pain though and does take some time. Read the books through just once and then put all your effort in practicing question banks again and again.
2.1 Yes
2.2 No, time while you were the safety pilot doesn't count a penny in JAA-land.
2.3 No. Under JAA it is either dual (with instructor) OR PIC. The only exception is SPIC (student pilot in command), where the student acts as PIC under the supervision of an instructor. This only applies to JAA integrated courses though, so not possible having done FAA training, whether the school was 141 or not. Note though, that any PIC time logged for checkrides (with a pass) does count as PIC under the JAA rules as well.
2.4 Yes and it is probably ok experience for most airlines, BUT (AND A BIG BIG CAUTION HERE): It does NOT count when you apply for a JAA licence! Reason being that the CAA views any time under the hood as P/UT (pilot under training) therefore can't be PIC, but it was neither with an official instructor. So this time simply doesn't exist for the CAA. Very dangerous if you applying for your JAA License with just a little over 200 FAA hours, as you might simply not meet the requirements (incl Cross Country PIC etc). This nearly caught me out, but luckily I had enough 'proper' hours having instructed in the U.S. for a while.
2.5 Yes. You are PIC any time you're bearing the full responsibility for the flight (exception as detailed in 2.4). In the FAA world a new PPL wouldn't log SPIC. If at a later stage (CPL training etc) he logs PIC and Dual Received at the same time, the instructor still remains in command.
2.6 Yes, see 2.5. And if you're flying in actual IMC, you can also log the approach and FAA instrument time (not if you're in VMC). If you're flying under an IFR plan, you can log all time as IFR PIC even for the JAA.
2.7 Definitely check that one with the CAA, but I think only if that plane was requiring a second pilot under the FAA rules as well (not the case for even some Citations!). In any case, you would probably need to hold a relevant type rating to claim hours for the JAA. In the FAA world a type rating is not required in any airplane while acting as SIC in U.S. domestic airspace.
Hope this helps and good luck
7E7
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I second that, having just completed my conversion in the UK. Try to get good quality training in the U.S. and then convert over asap, to stay in instrument practice. It took me 10h sim and 8h in the plane, that's after a 6 month break (ATPLs...) from instrument flying. Try to get those ATPLs out of the way first.
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Davey and 7E7 I prostrate myself at your feet. NO ONE, I repeat, NO ONE I was in the US with doing their MEIR managed to convert in less than 20 hours (5 sim plus 15 aircraft) and most took nearer 30. And that's finishing the course one week and starting the conversion the next on the same type of aircraft at a school with a very high 1st time pass rate. The 'summer' weather played a major part in that I accept, but I think a 15 hour conversion is an exception rather than the norm.
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No need to prostrate yourself mate, I'm but a human
Gotta add that I had well over 200 Multi hours, of which around 100 IFR, when I started my conversion. Hope that puts it a bit more into perspective. If you're fresh out of training with 200 odd hours maybe the 30h figure is a bit more realistic, at least to budget for.
One more thing: the UK IR test isn't that dreadful as everbody says... they want to see whether you're safe AND KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING! Even the +-5° NDB guidline for NDB work is just that - a guideline. Many errors come into play etc. My IR test flight was way from perfect, I was outside those limits a few times, but immediately tried to fix it without overreacting, and kept talking about what I was doing. Got a first time pass and a 'well done' from the examiner.
Gotta add that I had well over 200 Multi hours, of which around 100 IFR, when I started my conversion. Hope that puts it a bit more into perspective. If you're fresh out of training with 200 odd hours maybe the 30h figure is a bit more realistic, at least to budget for.
One more thing: the UK IR test isn't that dreadful as everbody says... they want to see whether you're safe AND KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING! Even the +-5° NDB guidline for NDB work is just that - a guideline. Many errors come into play etc. My IR test flight was way from perfect, I was outside those limits a few times, but immediately tried to fix it without overreacting, and kept talking about what I was doing. Got a first time pass and a 'well done' from the examiner.
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Davey and 7E7 I prostrate myself at your feet. NO ONE, I repeat, NO ONE I was in the US with doing their MEIR managed to convert in less than 20 hours (5 sim plus 15 aircraft) and most took nearer 30. And that's finishing the course one week and starting the conversion the next on the same type of aircraft at a school with a very high 1st time pass rate. The 'summer' weather played a major part in that I accept, but I think a 15 hour conversion is an exception rather than the norm.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I think things are further compounded by the misinterpretation of 'conversion' which in the eyes of the UK is 'retrain', thus a different training path is followed.
Just more jumping through loops and hoops rather than flying maturity.
Just more jumping through loops and hoops rather than flying maturity.
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This comes about mainly because, as I understand it (I have never flown in the land of the free) you do not fly NDB procedures on test in the US. In the UK you currently have to fly a single engine NDB hold and a single engine NDB approach, no quarter given! Hope this helps.
J.
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conversion schools
I did my conversion at Cabair after I did the atpl ground school. the flying for the cpl and meir conversion was supposed to take about 4 weeks, instead took 4 months! still did it in the usual 30 hours but did it all in the plane. In hind sight would have made the choice of flight school more on quality and availability, Cabair were fair too busy, the planes went tech far too often and as a modular conversion student I was far too down the list of priorities!
My advice, find a decent small school that will give you the time and attention. I have been working abroad this past year so my jaa meir lasped, ironic I do the conversion then have to go abroad and find work on my icao licence! Anyways, just done my renewal at Multiflight, Leeds. Was impressed, they limit the number of students.
My advice, find a decent small school that will give you the time and attention. I have been working abroad this past year so my jaa meir lasped, ironic I do the conversion then have to go abroad and find work on my icao licence! Anyways, just done my renewal at Multiflight, Leeds. Was impressed, they limit the number of students.
Join Date: Oct 2006
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FAA-JAA Conversion costs! and where to do it ?
Hi guys i would like to find out where can i do the FAA-JAA conversion in europe and how much would that cost for me ?
Happy Landings !
Happy Landings !
Join Date: Sep 2007
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CAA - JAA Licence Conversion
Hi
Apologies all if this is an old/already covered topic but here goes:
I'm in the middle of completing a CPL MEIR in New Zealand and at the end of the year will be returning to good ol' Blighty to convert it to a JAA licence.
Clearly realising now that I should have researched all this a bit more thoroughly before trekking half way round the world, but having had a dozen or so conversations with different flying schools my understanding has amounted to this:
Also if anyone has actually been down this route I'd be interested to hear how it worked out for you/where you went for the conversion & rough costs etc.
Cheers.
Apologies all if this is an old/already covered topic but here goes:
I'm in the middle of completing a CPL MEIR in New Zealand and at the end of the year will be returning to good ol' Blighty to convert it to a JAA licence.
Clearly realising now that I should have researched all this a bit more thoroughly before trekking half way round the world, but having had a dozen or so conversations with different flying schools my understanding has amounted to this:
- NZ CAA CPL Licence converts automatically to a UK JAA PPL Licence and no requirement for any further flight tests/theory exams are required. The day I land back on UK soil I can theoretically go flying in UK airspace (subject to medical etc etc).
- To convert my NZ CPL to a UK CPL I need to pass a flight test (which incorporates both cross country and general skills) and also sit the 6 CPL exams: Air Law, Human Factors, Air Tech, Met, PofF and Nav.
- To convert the Multi Engine Instrument Rating it is then a minimum of 15 hours of flying that must be done in the UK.
- Whilst all this is happening, most people start their ATPL papers (14 in total). Once those are passed I end up with a shiny new JAA frozen ATPL.
- With this I can go to the airlines, have them laugh in my face at my pathetic 300 hours (mainly on PA38s) but hopefully get a job in a right hand seat, building up to 1500hrs.
Also if anyone has actually been down this route I'd be interested to hear how it worked out for you/where you went for the conversion & rough costs etc.
Cheers.
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FAA to JAA conversion
As I read JAA says:
An applicant for a JAR-FCL licence and IR, if applicable, already holding at least an equivalent licence issued in accordance Annex 1 by a non-JAA State (let's say FAA) shall meet all the requirements of JAR-FCL, except that the requirements of course duration, number of lessons and specific training hours may be reduced.
I have PPL with JAA ATPL theory, so my question is:
If I come to JAA member state with FAA CPL(A) IR,ME what I will have to do to get the same JAA licence?
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IR has a mandatory 15 hour conversion but the CPL doesnt. They only wish to demonstrate the ability to fly to JAA standards, Thus hours as required.
Do both conversions on a multi and that will give you a JAA Multi CPL/IR
Do both conversions on a multi and that will give you a JAA Multi CPL/IR
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Hi all,
the requirements as laid out by gmac are UK JAA. The funny thing about JAR FCL is that they differ in every member country. The differences just have to be small enough to be acceptable to the JAA Commitee. Back to our conversion issue, this means that in some countries (I know it's the case in Germany), you need to go to an FTO, which then has to recommend a customized training programme for you. The Authority then has to agree to that programme, and then only you cab start flying. Basically, the UK did a great job by clearly laying out the framework in which conversions take place, and would be the logic choice to convert there. The licence you have will be a UK licence, but it can be used in any JAA member state.
the requirements as laid out by gmac are UK JAA. The funny thing about JAR FCL is that they differ in every member country. The differences just have to be small enough to be acceptable to the JAA Commitee. Back to our conversion issue, this means that in some countries (I know it's the case in Germany), you need to go to an FTO, which then has to recommend a customized training programme for you. The Authority then has to agree to that programme, and then only you cab start flying. Basically, the UK did a great job by clearly laying out the framework in which conversions take place, and would be the logic choice to convert there. The licence you have will be a UK licence, but it can be used in any JAA member state.
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dig this... has there been any similar cases of:
1. complete jaa fatpl training in lets say, greece
2. you decide you want to work un u.k.
3. you try to get your greek jaa fcl validated by the caa
4. caa says, you must do all 14 caa exams
pk
1. complete jaa fatpl training in lets say, greece
2. you decide you want to work un u.k.
3. you try to get your greek jaa fcl validated by the caa
4. caa says, you must do all 14 caa exams
pk