Ari-Ben Aviator
Why do it if it's not fun?
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 12
From: Bournemouth
Are second-hand experiences from 5 or 6 years ago really very relevant? 
Never been a customer of Aviator, but I did my CPL at EFT, who use Aviator's aircraft, and the general feeling around the place certainly wasn't all doom and gloom, as most of the posts here would have you believe.
The 100 hours multi is indeed 50 hours of P1 and 50 hours of safety-pilot. And if you intend to use the time to gain JAR licenses, or a job in Europe, you can't use any of the 50 hours of safety-pilot time. So the question is whether the price is good for 50 hours of multi-time. I haven't checked prices recently, but I gather that, when you look at it this way, their price is around average, or possibly slightly lower than average because of the very high usage their aircraft get.
Razelle, please tell me what relevance the fuel truck has? Do you really expect a brand-new tanker when you're looking for budget flying? Yes, it's a bit old, and it breaks down from time to time (and is replaced by another truck when it does break down), but if you're really going to make a decision on where to rent aircraft based on that......
Lewy, do a search on this forum. You'll find that Aviator have been discussed many times before. As far as I can rememer, they've never come under as much fire as they have this time - which is why I find the replies you've received here so strange.
FFF
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Never been a customer of Aviator, but I did my CPL at EFT, who use Aviator's aircraft, and the general feeling around the place certainly wasn't all doom and gloom, as most of the posts here would have you believe.
The 100 hours multi is indeed 50 hours of P1 and 50 hours of safety-pilot. And if you intend to use the time to gain JAR licenses, or a job in Europe, you can't use any of the 50 hours of safety-pilot time. So the question is whether the price is good for 50 hours of multi-time. I haven't checked prices recently, but I gather that, when you look at it this way, their price is around average, or possibly slightly lower than average because of the very high usage their aircraft get.
Razelle, please tell me what relevance the fuel truck has? Do you really expect a brand-new tanker when you're looking for budget flying? Yes, it's a bit old, and it breaks down from time to time (and is replaced by another truck when it does break down), but if you're really going to make a decision on where to rent aircraft based on that......
Lewy, do a search on this forum. You'll find that Aviator have been discussed many times before. As far as I can rememer, they've never come under as much fire as they have this time - which is why I find the replies you've received here so strange.
FFF
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: UK
Twin Time at Ari Ben Aviator USA
Does anyone have any information on the Multi engine time advertised by Flyaviator.com on the Beech Duchess in Pilot Magazines etc.
The advert suggests they are offering 100 hours Twin time for $5,995, sounds extremely cheap to me. I have heard that this is shared time ie 50 hrs P1 and 50 hrs in the right seat though do not know if this is true (more thn likely based on the price.
If any of you have been there done it and got the T shirt, I would be grateful for your comments about the organisation.
Thanks
The advert suggests they are offering 100 hours Twin time for $5,995, sounds extremely cheap to me. I have heard that this is shared time ie 50 hrs P1 and 50 hrs in the right seat though do not know if this is true (more thn likely based on the price.
If any of you have been there done it and got the T shirt, I would be grateful for your comments about the organisation.
Thanks
Why do it if it's not fun?
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 12
From: Bournemouth
Yes, that is correct.
Note that, under JAA rules, the time you spend in the right hand seat is not loggable, and therefore does not count towards the minimums for any license or rating issue, nor can you put it on your CV when applying for JAA jobs. (It does count under FAA rules, though, and so you can use it towards minimums for an FAA license.) $5995 for 50 hours of multi time, however, is still pretty cheap, so don't let this put you off.
Most (all?) of the flying will be at night, because the aircraft are used for training during the day.
Others will, I'm sure, have more information. I haven't been there or got the t-shirt, but I have flown with EFT (who share premises and aircraft with Aviator), which is how I know what little I know.
FFF
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Note that, under JAA rules, the time you spend in the right hand seat is not loggable, and therefore does not count towards the minimums for any license or rating issue, nor can you put it on your CV when applying for JAA jobs. (It does count under FAA rules, though, and so you can use it towards minimums for an FAA license.) $5995 for 50 hours of multi time, however, is still pretty cheap, so don't let this put you off.
Most (all?) of the flying will be at night, because the aircraft are used for training during the day.
Others will, I'm sure, have more information. I haven't been there or got the t-shirt, but I have flown with EFT (who share premises and aircraft with Aviator), which is how I know what little I know.
FFF
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
From: northumbria (ideally)
i can can confirm that hour building is generally later in the day and is henerally performed on an instrument flight plan under hood with a right seat pilot performing safety pilot duties. so it isnt 100hrs pic..more like 50 pic..but still its alot cheaper than flying a twin in england...its very roughly approximately around 72.20 pounds per hour of pic !
cheers
r
cheers
r
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
From: Asia
There is an other option of doing this, you will have to get your CFI/MEI than you can log the rightseat hours as flightinstructor.
This will only work if you already have your CPL/IR.
But if you want multi hours I think it is better to have hours as a SIC on a little bigger aircraft than a dutchess. You can also go to f.e. Eaglejet (www.eaglejet.net) where you get 100 hrs chieftan for $7500 or Alpine Air (www.alpine-air.com) 250 hrs Beech 99 for $13900
PD
This will only work if you already have your CPL/IR.
But if you want multi hours I think it is better to have hours as a SIC on a little bigger aircraft than a dutchess. You can also go to f.e. Eaglejet (www.eaglejet.net) where you get 100 hrs chieftan for $7500 or Alpine Air (www.alpine-air.com) 250 hrs Beech 99 for $13900
PD
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
From: sandpit
restriction at Alpine
Since the accident, August 17th, Alpine can only give training to Students with a working permit for the US...
Sorry about this, training here was great! Try eaglejet.net, they do training with Ameriflight, same aircraft, similar operation...
Regards,
Sharksucker
Sorry about this, training here was great! Try eaglejet.net, they do training with Ameriflight, same aircraft, similar operation...
Regards,
Sharksucker
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
From: The dark side of the moon
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: uk
Hi all,
I am looking to get 14 hours multi time asap, can probably get to florida this saturday (2nd oct) but need to find a school that has a twin at good rates!!
If anybody needs help with getting out there at this short notice i may be able to help also....
Look forward to your replies
Cheers
I am looking to get 14 hours multi time asap, can probably get to florida this saturday (2nd oct) but need to find a school that has a twin at good rates!!
If anybody needs help with getting out there at this short notice i may be able to help also....
Look forward to your replies
Cheers
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,122
Likes: 0
From: Neither Here Nor There
Really cheap aircraft, but also pretty dodgy!!!!
Touch'n'Oops,
Could you elaborate on this please (PM if you wish) as I was considering them for my FAA IR?
I've only ever read good stuff about them and they've always been friendly and responsive to enquiries (not that it's any indication).
I had my fingers burned once before in the USA and I don't want to go through that again.
Cheers,
2close
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,122
Likes: 0
From: Neither Here Nor There
Ari Ben Aviator - Current Info?
Does anyone have any up to date info on Ari Ben Aviator, in particular the 200 hour ME course with all FAA ratings?
I'm trying to get some detailed information on the course - I've tried the 'horse's mouth', so to speak, but it's like pulling teeth trying to get the detail I'm after, i.e. a breakdown in terms of hours flown, aircraft used, time required, how much is shared time, etc. for each stage of the course. I would have thought that level of information would be to hand but there you go.
I'd be grateful for any recent experiences.
Best Regards,
2close
I'm trying to get some detailed information on the course - I've tried the 'horse's mouth', so to speak, but it's like pulling teeth trying to get the detail I'm after, i.e. a breakdown in terms of hours flown, aircraft used, time required, how much is shared time, etc. for each stage of the course. I would have thought that level of information would be to hand but there you go.
I'd be grateful for any recent experiences.
Best Regards,
2close
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
From: Scandinavia
I don't have experience with them but what I have heard, when on the hour building program, flying is usually done in evenings and nights. The aircraft are used for other training in day time and hour builders fly after they are finnished up. If you are logging JAR time, only 100 hours can br used since safety pilot time can't be logged according to JAR. If you go for the 200 hour building package, you'll fly 100 hours as P1 and 100 hours as a safety pilot (which can't be logged).
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,122
Likes: 0
From: Neither Here Nor There
Cheers guys,
However, the adverts and the bit of info I have received outlines that at the end of the 200 (+20) hours, you will have the following (and I'm rounding up/down - read guessing - the hours in brackets)
MEP (10)
MEIR (40)
MECPL (20)
SECPL (+20 SEP)
CFI (ME) (20)
CFII (5)
MEI (5)
That makes roughly 100 hours ME PUT (I have FAA/JAA PPLs with 270 hrs PPL/NQ/IMC - post qualified log it as P1S under the FAA scheme as I recall) so that would leave 100 hours for hour building, which as rightly pointed out would probably be shared time at night.
What I'm trying to establish is confirmation that this is how it is, how long each of those phases would take approx., and what is the REAL likelihood of instructor time afterwards.
Again, many thanks,
2close
However, the adverts and the bit of info I have received outlines that at the end of the 200 (+20) hours, you will have the following (and I'm rounding up/down - read guessing - the hours in brackets)
MEP (10)
MEIR (40)
MECPL (20)
SECPL (+20 SEP)
CFI (ME) (20)
CFII (5)
MEI (5)
That makes roughly 100 hours ME PUT (I have FAA/JAA PPLs with 270 hrs PPL/NQ/IMC - post qualified log it as P1S under the FAA scheme as I recall) so that would leave 100 hours for hour building, which as rightly pointed out would probably be shared time at night.
What I'm trying to establish is confirmation that this is how it is, how long each of those phases would take approx., and what is the REAL likelihood of instructor time afterwards.
Again, many thanks,
2close
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 306
Likes: 2
From: UK
Fellow Aviator, if you are able to obtain an FAA multi engine instructor and possibly instrument instructor rating you will be able to log all of your flight time during shared time building; even under JAA regs. One pilot logs their flight time as dual given, the other as dual received. Also, it is often possible to persuade the other pilot to allow you to do all of the flying. Often the people that do such hour building want the hours, not the stick time. They just want 100-200 multi to qualify for a regional airline. For a small price some US hour builders may well allow you to do all the flying while they log the time as "safety pilot." It's quite possible to build JAA loggable multi time for about 40 quid an hour at schools such as Skymates and Ariben Aviator. You just have to be aware of how to go about it.
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
From: Scandinavia
Interesting points Fair Weather you have there. I wasn't aware that flight time as a safety pilot can be logged after an MEI rating has been obtained. I not sure what you mean as dual given, I understand that it means that you are the commander of the aircraft?
In order for the other pilot to log time as dual received, in my understanding, the other pilot has to be an instructor.
In order for the other pilot to log time as dual received, in my understanding, the other pilot has to be an instructor.
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
From: UK
I just stumbled across this thread by accident but basically it comes down to exactly what flyingforfun says, under JAA rules you will only be able to count half of the hours as P1. This is basically how he makes it so cheap as 2 students are paying for the same hours at the same time.
I went over there about 6 weeks ago and although the flying school itself looks like a mechanics garage thats been hit by a hurricane, the aircraft themselves do look to be of a high standard, with HSI's etc.
He also does a good scheme whereby you go to learn your FAA Instrument, Commercial and Flying Instructor ratings with him and he then employs you for a year under a J1 visa. It maybe worth you talking to him about that.
I went over there about 6 weeks ago and although the flying school itself looks like a mechanics garage thats been hit by a hurricane, the aircraft themselves do look to be of a high standard, with HSI's etc.
He also does a good scheme whereby you go to learn your FAA Instrument, Commercial and Flying Instructor ratings with him and he then employs you for a year under a J1 visa. It maybe worth you talking to him about that.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
From: Europe
Air Ben Aviator Florida
Hi!
I´m considering this school to get the FAA licences under their Proffesional Pilot Program and then being hired as a CFI in order to gain flight time experience towards my ATP with ME aircraft.
Has anybody of you had any experience with them? Are they good? Is true that about being hired as CFI for as much as 2 years (with a J-1 visa)?
Thanks for your comments.
I´m considering this school to get the FAA licences under their Proffesional Pilot Program and then being hired as a CFI in order to gain flight time experience towards my ATP with ME aircraft.
Has anybody of you had any experience with them? Are they good? Is true that about being hired as CFI for as much as 2 years (with a J-1 visa)?
Thanks for your comments.