Maths and Physics knowledge req'd for ATPL and airline flying?
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FFF, I totally agree.
I have got A Levels in both Maths and Physics, and this helps me in the way that FFF have described above. However, I would certainly say that with a brush up course (to get up to GCSE level), the ATPL learning material will be no problem. There is no point in being at A Level standard; obviously it is going to help though if you are.
I have got A Levels in both Maths and Physics, and this helps me in the way that FFF have described above. However, I would certainly say that with a brush up course (to get up to GCSE level), the ATPL learning material will be no problem. There is no point in being at A Level standard; obviously it is going to help though if you are.
Jet Blast Rat
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Sarfend-on-Sea
Formally there is no real requirement to revise any of the material, it should be covered in the lectures if you are learning full-time, or in the notes if you are distance learning. You are right, though, that your life will be easier if you are pre-prepared. I teach general navigation and electrics, so this list will be biased towards those areas, but what I suggest you look at is the following:
Maths (little above GCSE level):
Trigonometry
Formula rearrangement
Vectors
Circular geometry
Physics
Newtonian mechanics
Circular motion
Wave mechanics
Electrics / electronics
Fourrier analysis (I'm kidding with this one - this is degree-level and is not required, but it would help!)
Gas laws
Maths (little above GCSE level):
Trigonometry
Formula rearrangement
Vectors
Circular geometry
Physics
Newtonian mechanics
Circular motion
Wave mechanics
Electrics / electronics
Fourrier analysis (I'm kidding with this one - this is degree-level and is not required, but it would help!)
Gas laws
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 19
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From: Great Britian
Brushing up on maths
Hi ya all.
Can you advise me on any techniques or any books to help me brush up on maths skills for fATPL CPL/IR training?
What maths subjects do you have to be good at to be able to cope with the training?
Appreciate your help, again!
Thanx
Can you advise me on any techniques or any books to help me brush up on maths skills for fATPL CPL/IR training?
What maths subjects do you have to be good at to be able to cope with the training?
Appreciate your help, again!
Thanx
Jet Blast Rat
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,081
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From: Sarfend-on-Sea
GCSE revision books probably best, as there is no pilot's book (I'm trying to write one, but people keep wanting me to teach them things and I have not had the time!). The level should be correct.
You need reasonable trigonometry, to be able to rearrange a formula with three or four terms (R x A = 60 x D for example) to find one of the terms. You need pythagoras's theorem and a basic understanding of geometry of circles and of triangles. Ratios and percentages are vital, fractions useful. You will need to be able to interpolate figures that change depending on two independent variables (e.g. to work out sunset times that depend on latitude and on date, but are only tabulated every 2 degrees and every three days), but you will be shown how to do so. Use of standard index form (e.g. 2.3 x 10^12 = 2,300,000,000,000) would be handy. Some mental arithmetic will be useful for the groundschool and even more for the flying.
If you want a simple test to give you an idea send me a private message with an email address. I teach general nav, the most mathematical subject, for BCFT.
You need reasonable trigonometry, to be able to rearrange a formula with three or four terms (R x A = 60 x D for example) to find one of the terms. You need pythagoras's theorem and a basic understanding of geometry of circles and of triangles. Ratios and percentages are vital, fractions useful. You will need to be able to interpolate figures that change depending on two independent variables (e.g. to work out sunset times that depend on latitude and on date, but are only tabulated every 2 degrees and every three days), but you will be shown how to do so. Use of standard index form (e.g. 2.3 x 10^12 = 2,300,000,000,000) would be handy. Some mental arithmetic will be useful for the groundschool and even more for the flying.
If you want a simple test to give you an idea send me a private message with an email address. I teach general nav, the most mathematical subject, for BCFT.
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 690
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From: UK
If you get the info about the residential course with Guildhall, they might send you a self-test maths book. This is useful as you can identify your own weak points to brush up on before you start the course.
If you've got even a basic command of maths you won't have a problem- I actually quite enjoy the challenge that is Gen Nav!
PS Send Clowns... it took 4.5 minutes, answer for you tomorrow!
If you've got even a basic command of maths you won't have a problem- I actually quite enjoy the challenge that is Gen Nav!
PS Send Clowns... it took 4.5 minutes, answer for you tomorrow!
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 53
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From: Dublin, Ireland
Was just about the post the same question.. never put any work into maths in school which im only beginning to regret now.. 
I found the following book on the web.. Keynotes - Maths & Physics for Pilots
Would be great to hear from anyone who has used it?
I think Oxford run a five day maths \ physics refreher course, but at least the book would be a (cheaper) step in the right direction..
I found the following book on the web.. Keynotes - Maths & Physics for Pilots
Would be great to hear from anyone who has used it?
I think Oxford run a five day maths \ physics refreher course, but at least the book would be a (cheaper) step in the right direction..
Jet Blast Rat
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,081
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From: Sarfend-on-Sea
And needed some knowledge of geometry, eh, Wx man?
Looks like there is now a book - I asked about this some time ago and there was not. Obviously it would be interesting if anyone has seen it to know how good it is.
Looks like there is now a book - I asked about this some time ago and there was not. Obviously it would be interesting if anyone has seen it to know how good it is.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 54
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From: Hiding from the mother in law
In my experience, I wouldn't get in too much of a stew about it, save to say basic O level/GCSE maths is fine. That is all I have and am certainly no wizz. You may be taught some formulae that sound baffling at first especially when transposing equatiions. However, if you listen to what you are taught by a good lecturer, you will realise that they tend to explain how they arrive at that equation. If in doubt, just remember the resulting formula. It is all you need, and that will be basic O Level stuff. O level taught me trig and if that is not the case now, I would certainly agree with S.C that that is important.
With regards to CPL IR flying maths, certainly don't panic...I did.
As many will tell you, what is reasonably easy on the ground becomes neigh on genius material when flying and as such, there will be many tricks of the trade shown to you for airborne calculations.
Hope this helps,
Harves
With regards to CPL IR flying maths, certainly don't panic...I did.
As many will tell you, what is reasonably easy on the ground becomes neigh on genius material when flying and as such, there will be many tricks of the trade shown to you for airborne calculations.
Hope this helps,
Harves
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 78
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From: UK
Interested in Maths
Hi fellow guys and girls.
My apologies if this subject is a bit dull, but it would satisfy my curiosity...
Earlier this week I was sitting in the pub discussing aviation training with a very good friend who wishes to start his PPL training. As with everything in aviation, the cashflow is always a big issue, and we spent hours discussing how he could budget for the course.
After leaving, a thought popped into my head.... if we summed all the money that budding commercial pilots owe in career development loans, bank loans, and other borrowed money, how much would that total?
£100,000 sterling gbp?
£500,000 sterling gbp?
£1,000,000 sterling gbp?
£5,000,000 sterling gbp?
This is my first post on PPRUNE, and I'm sure this might well be too much of a personal question, and one which I may risk a lot of pilots telling me to stop sticking my nose in where it's not belonged
but I was wondering if you pilots out there may be able to think of a way of totalling this value, and get back to me?
Thanks everyone.
My apologies if this subject is a bit dull, but it would satisfy my curiosity...
Earlier this week I was sitting in the pub discussing aviation training with a very good friend who wishes to start his PPL training. As with everything in aviation, the cashflow is always a big issue, and we spent hours discussing how he could budget for the course.
After leaving, a thought popped into my head.... if we summed all the money that budding commercial pilots owe in career development loans, bank loans, and other borrowed money, how much would that total?
£100,000 sterling gbp?
£500,000 sterling gbp?
£1,000,000 sterling gbp?
£5,000,000 sterling gbp?
This is my first post on PPRUNE, and I'm sure this might well be too much of a personal question, and one which I may risk a lot of pilots telling me to stop sticking my nose in where it's not belonged
but I was wondering if you pilots out there may be able to think of a way of totalling this value, and get back to me?
Thanks everyone.
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 46
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From: dublin ireland
Help!!! Maths and Physics was a long time ago!
Hi all,
Just started ATPL's and I am realising that the last time I did Maths and Physics was 20yrs ago! Pooleys ATPL notes DO NOT go in depth by any means, so I am going to have to fill in a lot of basic blanks. Can anyone recommend books on basic maths, physics and electrics to help with formulae and to provide a grounding for the difficult study periods ahead. Any help will be much appreciated!
Happy New Year
KB
Just started ATPL's and I am realising that the last time I did Maths and Physics was 20yrs ago! Pooleys ATPL notes DO NOT go in depth by any means, so I am going to have to fill in a lot of basic blanks. Can anyone recommend books on basic maths, physics and electrics to help with formulae and to provide a grounding for the difficult study periods ahead. Any help will be much appreciated!
Happy New Year
KB
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: South coast
Hovering AND talking
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,711
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From: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
Depending on the level to which you did the Maths & Physics (presumably at school), you will find that it comes back to you very quickly. Many of the books and courses are assuming very little knowledge (esp wrt physics) in the first place. However, if you had the knowledge once (and, at this level, physics ain't changed), your brain will drag it out of long-term archive quite readily.
Cheers
Whirlygig
Cheers
Whirlygig
PPRuNe Co-Pilot
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 931
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From: The Sky
G'day,
I needed my maths and physics revised as well, what i have done is to buy those CD-roms availabe at WHSmith for GCSE and A-Level maths and Physics revision. Its working for me, quite enjoyable too.
Hoo-Roo
Airway
I needed my maths and physics revised as well, what i have done is to buy those CD-roms availabe at WHSmith for GCSE and A-Level maths and Physics revision. Its working for me, quite enjoyable too.
Hoo-Roo
Airway
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From: dublin ireland
Thanks 4 replies.
With physics I ment anything to do with wave propagation etc and any subsequent formulae, along with reflectors,dipoles etc etc. They may be keeping it all at a basic level, but I only did school level maths and physics, and can't remember any of it!
Maths its all Sin,Cos etc which simply no longer makes any sense.
I understand what goes on if explained in a physical/practical situation, like lift for example. Put in on paper in a mathematical formula and it stops making sense, so what I need is material which will explain what the formulae mean in the physical sense.
So school level material and the Cranfield notes should do the trick!?
Thanks for your advice
KB
With physics I ment anything to do with wave propagation etc and any subsequent formulae, along with reflectors,dipoles etc etc. They may be keeping it all at a basic level, but I only did school level maths and physics, and can't remember any of it!
Maths its all Sin,Cos etc which simply no longer makes any sense.
I understand what goes on if explained in a physical/practical situation, like lift for example. Put in on paper in a mathematical formula and it stops making sense, so what I need is material which will explain what the formulae mean in the physical sense.
So school level material and the Cranfield notes should do the trick!?
Thanks for your advice
KB
Hovering AND talking
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,711
Likes: 1
From: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
Nah, I'd go for Airways advice .... if any other aspects of aviation are anything to go by, then I'd say you'd save yourself a fortune in Smiths instead of Cranfield.
That reminds me - you could also the BBC Learning Bitesize stuff.
Cheers
Whirlygig
That reminds me - you could also the BBC Learning Bitesize stuff.
Cheers
Whirlygig