Maths and Physics knowledge req'd for ATPL and airline flying?
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It may prevent your getting onto one of the mentored pilot schemes some airlines offer (via OAT/CABAIR/CTC/FTE etc..) as it would appear you'll only have a single A-Level in ICT(unless you are doing other A-levels), but it won't prevent you from obtaining a pilots license via self sponsorship I'm assuming you achieved a good GCSE grade in maths to get onto a maths A-Level course anyway.
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ICT will give be 2 A-Levels because im doing double so i think i have the minimum for cabair but i don't think i will be accepted into it anyway because others will have maths. Also i cannot re-sit in june because my teacher will not allow me to.
Thanks for the replies though.
Vectis, about this distance learning, i have never heard of it before, do you mind giving me a little insight into it. thanks
Thanks for the replies though.
Vectis, about this distance learning, i have never heard of it before, do you mind giving me a little insight into it. thanks
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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If it is not too late my arse would be down that school pleading with your teacher to overturn the decision to kick you off the course. Explain your career plans and include evidence such as ATC membership, flying experience and any other relevant stuff which will demonstrate your commitment. My thoughts are that one slip up should not equate to termination however, if your coursework thus far has been poor due to lack of effort on your part then you cannot really do any more than pledge a renewed and sustained effort should they grant you a replacement.
Lack of A-Level maths will not exclude you from obtaining a commercial pilot licence through self sponsorship (the level of maths involved is only GCSE level) however if you're looking into an RAF scholarship or sponsored commercial route then you need to get that A-Level maths otherwise face inevitable early rejection in the application processes.
Speak to your parents, teacher and then headmaster ASAP.
VFE.
Lack of A-Level maths will not exclude you from obtaining a commercial pilot licence through self sponsorship (the level of maths involved is only GCSE level) however if you're looking into an RAF scholarship or sponsored commercial route then you need to get that A-Level maths otherwise face inevitable early rejection in the application processes.
Speak to your parents, teacher and then headmaster ASAP.
VFE.
Don't Despair!
Please don't worry.
I'm a professional pilot on big jets and totally messed up my A-levels. I too got a U in maths and got booted off the course. However, I did go onto to do a degree which shows I learnt my lesson!
Keep at it and put it behind you...
I'm a professional pilot on big jets and totally messed up my A-levels. I too got a U in maths and got booted off the course. However, I did go onto to do a degree which shows I learnt my lesson!
Keep at it and put it behind you...
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If you're just doing your A-Levels now, you're what, 18? Relax. If you can't get back in this year, complete the A-Levels you are doing and rejoin next year for the other one. You have all the time in the world. I'm 29 and am just trying to get into this game. Just start planning, instead of making rash decisions and hasty assumptions about what is and isn't possible.
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while it may cost some money, I'm sure you can find somewhere else to sit your exam in June (or even next January) your teacher can only prevent you from taking the course at your school/college not sitting the exam. Not living in england I'm not certain you can do this there but you can here, I would assume you can find somewhere else which lets you sit the A-Level exam. It's best to call your A-Level examination board and find out if there are any places where you can sit the exams without being affiliated to a school/college. It's worth a try if you feel you can achieve a grade in maths.
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GW,
Think of this way -
1) U at Maths is clearly not as good as an A but hey who really cares if you now move on and do things to show you've learnt from your f++k up.
2) I can only speak for one of the aforementioned schemes but they certainly won't look at you as a failure if you move on.
Think of this way -
1) U at Maths is clearly not as good as an A but hey who really cares if you now move on and do things to show you've learnt from your f++k up.
2) I can only speak for one of the aforementioned schemes but they certainly won't look at you as a failure if you move on.
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So seen as were on the subject, slight thread hijack, I have 4 A Levels (ICT, Design Tech, Geography and Law) and am hoping to join the flying industry in some guise, either RAF or go to one of these so affordable schools to get an ATPL. Will my lack of A Level maths make it harder?
ICT, Design Tech, Geography and Law
None of the above would I consider to be a real A-level. Despite the fact that I have an A in A level Geography and (I think) General Studies.
Show me an A Level in English, Maths, Physics, Chemistry and I'll maybe think there is half a brain cell there. Even then I would expect an A or B grade these days as standards have collapsed.
My disregard is considered. With flying your training, your experience and your personality count. Count.
Don't worry unduly about your school grades.
Good luck,
WWW
None of the above would I consider to be a real A-level. Despite the fact that I have an A in A level Geography and (I think) General Studies.
Show me an A Level in English, Maths, Physics, Chemistry and I'll maybe think there is half a brain cell there. Even then I would expect an A or B grade these days as standards have collapsed.
My disregard is considered. With flying your training, your experience and your personality count. Count.
Don't worry unduly about your school grades.
Good luck,
WWW
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I have to agree, they were quite easy. I got ABBC. I just didnt fancy all that work when it wasnt required strictly.
Since leaving school thou Ive done lots of stuff for my CV and have a good personality I think so hopefully that will count.
Thanks for the advice.
Since leaving school thou Ive done lots of stuff for my CV and have a good personality I think so hopefully that will count.
Thanks for the advice.
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So ICT & ICT Double are not considered real A-Levels? The head of the college told me before i had taken them that ICT Double was 2nd hardest to Physics with only 3% achieving an A grade. 
I also do Critical Thinking for A-Level but i know it isnt really a propper one lol 
Im going to try get back on this maths course tomorrow, i hope he will let me
.
I also do Critical Thinking for A-Level but i know it isnt really a propper one lol Im going to try get back on this maths course tomorrow, i hope he will let me
.
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Cant understand why anyone gives a brass monkey's about their school grades.
Flying schools don't care what school grades you got, they just want to see the color of your money.
Get a frozen ATPL, go instructing for a couple of years until you have 1000 TT and no airline is going to care what school grades you got either.
I scraped through school with mediocre grades in a load of crap non-maths and non-science subjects like music and history (back in New Zealand) and then went to do an arts degree which I totally screwed up and failed so badly that the university banned me from re-applying to finish the course.
I've been flying for 12 years now and done a few big interviews including Easyjet, Air Mauritius, several UK turboprop and bizjet operators, and also Cathay Pacific which is supposed to be the hardest interview in the world, and no one's ever even ASKED about my school grades let alone given me any grief about them.
The way it works in this business is that jobs are dished out first of all to all the management pilots' kids, and their kids' mates. After that it's according to whose dad has been in the Freemasons / Squadron leader in the RAF / drinking buddy in the Conservative Club bar for the longest. After that, they go to the guys who've been hanging around the local flying club the longest and kissing the ass of the local chief pilot when he pops in to take his warbird for a Friday afernoon jolly. Once they've exhausted those lists of potential candidates, they start calling people from the CV pile in utterly random order. If they're really organized, they've told the kid that works in ops to arrange the CV pile into some kind of order of who's got the most hours and relevant flying experience - and then of course that kid has put his own CV and all his mates' ones on the top of the pile anyway
Honestly man get some life experience and get some hours on light aircraft, and no airline is going to give a single solitary rat's @rse about what you did at school, I guarantee it.
*Footnote to the above - if you have a pattern of multiple screw-ups and failures of your ATPL subjects and your CPL and IR flight tests, then yes you CAN expect to be given a hard time at interview. So get over the school thing, and work like you've never worked before when you start doing relevant stuff like actually learning to fly.
Flying schools don't care what school grades you got, they just want to see the color of your money.
Get a frozen ATPL, go instructing for a couple of years until you have 1000 TT and no airline is going to care what school grades you got either.
I scraped through school with mediocre grades in a load of crap non-maths and non-science subjects like music and history (back in New Zealand) and then went to do an arts degree which I totally screwed up and failed so badly that the university banned me from re-applying to finish the course.
I've been flying for 12 years now and done a few big interviews including Easyjet, Air Mauritius, several UK turboprop and bizjet operators, and also Cathay Pacific which is supposed to be the hardest interview in the world, and no one's ever even ASKED about my school grades let alone given me any grief about them.
The way it works in this business is that jobs are dished out first of all to all the management pilots' kids, and their kids' mates. After that it's according to whose dad has been in the Freemasons / Squadron leader in the RAF / drinking buddy in the Conservative Club bar for the longest. After that, they go to the guys who've been hanging around the local flying club the longest and kissing the ass of the local chief pilot when he pops in to take his warbird for a Friday afernoon jolly. Once they've exhausted those lists of potential candidates, they start calling people from the CV pile in utterly random order. If they're really organized, they've told the kid that works in ops to arrange the CV pile into some kind of order of who's got the most hours and relevant flying experience - and then of course that kid has put his own CV and all his mates' ones on the top of the pile anyway
Honestly man get some life experience and get some hours on light aircraft, and no airline is going to give a single solitary rat's @rse about what you did at school, I guarantee it.
*Footnote to the above - if you have a pattern of multiple screw-ups and failures of your ATPL subjects and your CPL and IR flight tests, then yes you CAN expect to be given a hard time at interview. So get over the school thing, and work like you've never worked before when you start doing relevant stuff like actually learning to fly.
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I suggest that you take the above post with a pinch of salt because it is completley flawed in every respect with regards to the nepotism rubbish. I am not sure whether this happens in your native NZ LST? Perhaps it does? If your theory is correct, tell me why the UK airlines welcome pilots like yourself over home grown talent? After 12 years of flying they must have been really desperate eh?
If your Daddy flys jets he will get you a job? Random CV selection please! This definately does not happen for the airline I work for here in England.
If your Daddy flys jets he will get you a job? Random CV selection please! This definately does not happen for the airline I work for here in England.
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Chill out Shaun it's called 'taking the piss'. Those who know me are well aware of my tendency for vast hyperbole and wild exaggeration with everything I say and do.
Although with my serious hat on, I'd say my highly scientific analysis of recruiting policies has at least 20% worth of truth in it, for a couple of the companies I've worked for (and yes one of them's in the UK).
But I meant everything I said about the school grades, honestly, 100%. As long as the guy gets some decent marks at flying school and a few flying hours under his belt, then none except the harshest employers is going to hassle him at interview about 'A' level maths.
Although with my serious hat on, I'd say my highly scientific analysis of recruiting policies has at least 20% worth of truth in it, for a couple of the companies I've worked for (and yes one of them's in the UK).
But I meant everything I said about the school grades, honestly, 100%. As long as the guy gets some decent marks at flying school and a few flying hours under his belt, then none except the harshest employers is going to hassle him at interview about 'A' level maths.
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Luke
So which of the above were you? 
The way it works in this business is that jobs are dished out first of all to all the management pilots' kids, and their kids' mates. After that it's according to whose dad has been in the Freemasons / Squadron leader in the RAF / drinking buddy in the Conservative Club bar for the longest. After that, ............
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I have been there too. Double IT A'level and poor maths and science.
The verdict
Civil = No problems with self sponsorship, however schemes like Flybe MAPS and other mentored schemes prefer you to have 2 of Maths, Physics, Science or English to really be considered. CTC Require two A'Levels from most subjects, inc ICT/IT, but they are going to prefer Science, Maths and English, same as they prefer a degree but dont say it.
Mil = Again, to be a pilot, from what i can make out, if you dont have maths, science or english you are at a disadvantage when applying to be an Officer, Flight Crew or other technical trades.
So i would say, no you havn't messed up, your young enough to go back and take the subjects you need and move on. At 22 i have had to, so at 17 i am sure there are no issues, you could get your A' and a degree by the time you get to my age, and all i have is IT subjects and Business. I am taking Mechanical Engineering BEng and doing three alevels.
Your qualifications however in most cases just get you a foot in the door. Remember all the RAF Battery Tets, Personality Tests and whatever else they do. Your personality will also play a part in getting that job.
The verdict
Civil = No problems with self sponsorship, however schemes like Flybe MAPS and other mentored schemes prefer you to have 2 of Maths, Physics, Science or English to really be considered. CTC Require two A'Levels from most subjects, inc ICT/IT, but they are going to prefer Science, Maths and English, same as they prefer a degree but dont say it.
Mil = Again, to be a pilot, from what i can make out, if you dont have maths, science or english you are at a disadvantage when applying to be an Officer, Flight Crew or other technical trades.
So i would say, no you havn't messed up, your young enough to go back and take the subjects you need and move on. At 22 i have had to, so at 17 i am sure there are no issues, you could get your A' and a degree by the time you get to my age, and all i have is IT subjects and Business. I am taking Mechanical Engineering BEng and doing three alevels.
Your qualifications however in most cases just get you a foot in the door. Remember all the RAF Battery Tets, Personality Tests and whatever else they do. Your personality will also play a part in getting that job.
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listen to planecrazy
I have to agree with above -
To be a commercial pilot you don't need to have any qualfications as such.
There is nothing stopping anyone from entering a small flying school to gain their PPL and then onto a AtPL theory (some schools ask you to complete a maths questions booklet), (I also know of a few other that just require a PPL) and then once you've got your ATPLs it is irrelevent to flying schools how many GCSEs or A-levels you have.
If you go the integrated route the minimum requirement is 5 GCSEs at C+ for most schools. Once your on the programme you are pretty much sorted and it's your money for a type rating such as GECAT that will be the next qualification needed.
CTC ask for 2 A-levels at C, some airlines 3 and that is the maximum.
Mentored schemes are beginning to ask for Maths or science even economics in 1 A-level and may be another 1 or 2 subjects, but to be honest if you can just get on to an integrated at FTE or Oxford you are going to be forking out the same money with the same bank as the mentored trainees. They don't even have a secure job at the end. You at least have a choice of airlines. At the moment the market is pretty good - if you can finance - there are not many, if any sponsorships.
So to answer the question.
May make it hard for a mentored scheme, but for CTC you'd have a perfect straight A in ICT, which is a science subject. This looks good as it not AAE or AAU, because you haven't completed the full A-level, so you have a neat and simple AA. Perfect score in the subjects you completed!
This may seriously be to your favour even with mentored schemes which generally ask for CC in two A-levels including a science eetc.
To an integrated having 2 A grades at A-level and 5 GCSE will look a lot better than 2 B and E if you have to substitute work on ICT for your A-level in Maths.
Its up to you, but at the end of the day if you already have 5 GCSE at grade C in the core and are going to have two good A-levels, entering flying school should be no problem.
For RAF
I personally would see if I could do an AS in Maths or improve my AS grade and complete full A-levels in ICT with As. However I think you may need a degree anyway. So your A-levels won't mean as much as what you end up with your degree
Good luck mate - remember its money that's the real qualification in the training business!
To be a commercial pilot you don't need to have any qualfications as such.
There is nothing stopping anyone from entering a small flying school to gain their PPL and then onto a AtPL theory (some schools ask you to complete a maths questions booklet), (I also know of a few other that just require a PPL) and then once you've got your ATPLs it is irrelevent to flying schools how many GCSEs or A-levels you have.
If you go the integrated route the minimum requirement is 5 GCSEs at C+ for most schools. Once your on the programme you are pretty much sorted and it's your money for a type rating such as GECAT that will be the next qualification needed.
CTC ask for 2 A-levels at C, some airlines 3 and that is the maximum.
Mentored schemes are beginning to ask for Maths or science even economics in 1 A-level and may be another 1 or 2 subjects, but to be honest if you can just get on to an integrated at FTE or Oxford you are going to be forking out the same money with the same bank as the mentored trainees. They don't even have a secure job at the end. You at least have a choice of airlines. At the moment the market is pretty good - if you can finance - there are not many, if any sponsorships.
So to answer the question.
May make it hard for a mentored scheme, but for CTC you'd have a perfect straight A in ICT, which is a science subject. This looks good as it not AAE or AAU, because you haven't completed the full A-level, so you have a neat and simple AA. Perfect score in the subjects you completed!
This may seriously be to your favour even with mentored schemes which generally ask for CC in two A-levels including a science eetc.
To an integrated having 2 A grades at A-level and 5 GCSE will look a lot better than 2 B and E if you have to substitute work on ICT for your A-level in Maths.
Its up to you, but at the end of the day if you already have 5 GCSE at grade C in the core and are going to have two good A-levels, entering flying school should be no problem.
For RAF
I personally would see if I could do an AS in Maths or improve my AS grade and complete full A-levels in ICT with As. However I think you may need a degree anyway. So your A-levels won't mean as much as what you end up with your degree
Good luck mate - remember its money that's the real qualification in the training business!
Last edited by planeshipcar; 13th Mar 2007 at 10:17.
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Its not the end of the world
I have poor A-Levels and none of the grades i have are in maths or sciences. Im currently doing a Degree however which i hope to get a 2:1 which is meant to compensate for this.
If you were allowed on the Maths A-Level course, youmust be capabel of achieving a resonable degreee, if they dont let you back on, opportunities of Maths foundations or Night Schools do exist!! Kepp trying. I wish i could redo my A-Levels.
If you were allowed on the Maths A-Level course, youmust be capabel of achieving a resonable degreee, if they dont let you back on, opportunities of Maths foundations or Night Schools do exist!! Kepp trying. I wish i could redo my A-Levels.
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Some one has mentioned, that you can retake the maths at a different college. But where the problem comes is that, if you had a U, the college won't take you on, so even though so can retake, where are you going to learn the new topics?
I really doubt double ICT is second only to physics. Chill out mate. Its not the end of the world. I had fairly poor Alevels in Biology, Chemistry and Geography. Geography got me a good enough grade but the other two were DD. Im at uni atm, doing computer science.
The schemes ask for alevels of high standard, but so long as you have strong enough GCSE (A's and B's english math science etc) you will be ok, the ATPL stuff as far as i can see, is GCSE standard, anything thats not, im sure you'll pick it up. You may not be able to apply for the schmes, but if your dream is to be a pilot, nothing stopping you the self funded way, the schemes are self funded anyways!
I really doubt double ICT is second only to physics. Chill out mate. Its not the end of the world. I had fairly poor Alevels in Biology, Chemistry and Geography. Geography got me a good enough grade but the other two were DD. Im at uni atm, doing computer science.
The schemes ask for alevels of high standard, but so long as you have strong enough GCSE (A's and B's english math science etc) you will be ok, the ATPL stuff as far as i can see, is GCSE standard, anything thats not, im sure you'll pick it up. You may not be able to apply for the schmes, but if your dream is to be a pilot, nothing stopping you the self funded way, the schemes are self funded anyways!