Orlando Flight Training
Join Date: Sep 2005
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i did my ppl there about 4 years ago and have just come back from 60hrs hour building. they have a handfull 152's very old and i had a few tech probs with them, they have gps. they have several warriors etc and a few c172's-very nice with auto pilot etc only couple years old also with gps!
very nice and friendly people.
xx
very nice and friendly people.
xx
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ENGLAND, BUT IN ASIA NOW
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GOOD
Good, i'm happy for him, the job he deserved at last. Great bloke, did my PPL with him in the summer. I've heard about the bad things they do to there CFI's they don't want there. But anyway no more comments on that. So whos the new JAA examiner? Does paul still do the CPL there?
Brian304
Brian304
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Then don't go. I'm serious; if the school insists you pay up front, without using an escrow account to protect you if they go bust, you deserve to lose all your money - as several wannabes have done in the past. The list of bankrupt flight schools is long and dispiriting - and, as a customer, you are last in the line when it comes to distribution of the remaining assets.
Do not do it. Sod how good the school is, NEVER PAY UP FRONT!
Is that clear enough?
Scroggs
Do not do it. Sod how good the school is, NEVER PAY UP FRONT!
Is that clear enough?
Scroggs
Join Date: Dec 1997
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PilotPrincess YOU are the customer, not the school. You have the money and they have to earn it. They are not doing you a favour, you are doing them one by choosing their school. If they can't get to grips with that concept, walk away and don't turn back. There are plenty of schools who do understand the concept of 'customer service', and no-one to whom you are paying several (possibly tens of) thousands of pounds ever has you over a barrel, it is quite the reverse; remember that.
Scroggs
Scroggs
Many of us on PPRuNe say it time and time again: Don't pay large amounts up front unless it's into an escrow account or equivalent! Although I think paying small amounts up front is a reasonable compromise. Say, not more than a few grand but never more than you're prepared to lose if/when the school shuts shop.
I've lost track of the number of schools that have gone belly up. Australia, UK, USA, you name the place it makes no difference. The students and staff are nearly always the last to know, in many cases only finding out when they arrive for lessons or work and find the doors locked.
There are schools where paying it all up front would be OK for the period of your training. Trouble is you have no way of knowing which schools are which. You certainly don't have the option of auditing their books or discerning the owner's intentions.
I can only repeat the US's (futile) anti-drugs mantra: "Just say no." As Scroggs so rightfully said, if the school won't compromise then go elsewhere! They're the ones begging for *your* money. You are not the one begging for their services. You can *always* go elsewhere. Just as much as asking about their rates, aircraft availability etc it's important to ascertain payment options. A requirement to pay large amounts up front should raise a very large red flag about choosing that school.
I've lost track of the number of schools that have gone belly up. Australia, UK, USA, you name the place it makes no difference. The students and staff are nearly always the last to know, in many cases only finding out when they arrive for lessons or work and find the doors locked.
There are schools where paying it all up front would be OK for the period of your training. Trouble is you have no way of knowing which schools are which. You certainly don't have the option of auditing their books or discerning the owner's intentions.
I can only repeat the US's (futile) anti-drugs mantra: "Just say no." As Scroggs so rightfully said, if the school won't compromise then go elsewhere! They're the ones begging for *your* money. You are not the one begging for their services. You can *always* go elsewhere. Just as much as asking about their rates, aircraft availability etc it's important to ascertain payment options. A requirement to pay large amounts up front should raise a very large red flag about choosing that school.
Join Date: May 2003
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Ok ... so what happens then if you get get out there, ie. to OFT having paid for your flights/visa/tsa/course deposit and then they say to you, "We won't let you train until you have paid for the course up front" ... they have you over a barrel. Have you ever been in that situation Mr Scroggs?
Do a search here on Pprune because a number of people have explained how to move schools if things dont work out.
For others ask the question before you sign up with them how they expect payment to be done. If you dont like it dont go with them.
A good flying school is more than just good instruction. Its good admin, good aircraft the whole lot. Corners cut in one area indicates corners cut elsewhere, it stands to reason.
I find it strange that aviation is one of the activities where its customers are expected to fork out several thousand of pounds to be treated like sh!t by pompous (sometimes crooked) and overbearing suppliers.
Is it any wonder GA is dying.
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It is not too difficult either to transfer to another immigration approved school that wants to play fair either. They would be more than delighted to help you through the process. Its in their interests too. At least they know they are getting a customer who is not prepared to be a scmuck.
By the way Chrisbl, don't call me a schmuck, you don't even know me and AT LEAST I CAN SPELL.
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Well, it's ok for you to sit there in your nice comfy home/office etc, to say that, but I was in Florida (my first time to the States) and Jean Pierre (Sales Manager/whatever) said to me in no uncertain terms that if I decided that I didn't want to do the course then he would cancel my visa. I now think that he was being an *******. My husband (an airline pilot) is furious about how I was treated. I feel pretty vexed now about Jean-Pierre's attitude.
By the way Chrisbl, don't call me a schmuck, you don't even know me and AT LEAST I CAN SPELL.
By the way Chrisbl, don't call me a schmuck, you don't even know me and AT LEAST I CAN SPELL.
Did you not ask them about their payment terms as part of your research before you went?
Join Date: May 2003
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PilotPrincess If I wanted to call you a schmuck I would have been more explict like "PP what a schmuck you are".
But as a general point dont do abroad what you would not dream of doing at home.
You would not seriously hand over a few thousand pounds to a complete stranger to build say a conservatory onto your house.
So why do the same with aviation especially in a foreign country.
One rule I have which always comes in handy weather its a plumber I am thinking of engaging or even a flying school. The first lie is always the last lie and any relationship ends. I had a builder quote once who claimed to be in a particular trade body so I looked it up and he was not. So he was out, (claimed he ade a mistake- yeh it was on his headed paper) the first lie is the last lie. I am afraid you have to ask questions which you can verify to find out whether they lie.
Applies to same to flying schools. When you cannot visit them ie they are 2000 miles away extra care is needed. Watch out for bogus or tame references too.
But as a general point dont do abroad what you would not dream of doing at home.
You would not seriously hand over a few thousand pounds to a complete stranger to build say a conservatory onto your house.
So why do the same with aviation especially in a foreign country.
One rule I have which always comes in handy weather its a plumber I am thinking of engaging or even a flying school. The first lie is always the last lie and any relationship ends. I had a builder quote once who claimed to be in a particular trade body so I looked it up and he was not. So he was out, (claimed he ade a mistake- yeh it was on his headed paper) the first lie is the last lie. I am afraid you have to ask questions which you can verify to find out whether they lie.
Applies to same to flying schools. When you cannot visit them ie they are 2000 miles away extra care is needed. Watch out for bogus or tame references too.
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About the 'Pay-up-front' dilemma
Hi ChrisBL, PilotPrincess, Tinstaafl and all the other 'never-pay-up-front' crusaders out there! 
I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that we generally understand and agree with you. Yet so many people keep bringing up the question over and over again. The (otherwise brilliant) permanent training-advisory thread already has information about the "why", but not the "how" and I think this is where the problem lies: How would an alternative pay-plan be organised? How does escrow-accounts work, how to agree total-price but still pay in chunks, etc. etc.
Also: -Why I think this is causing so much dilemma for so many people:
1) If there is a 'complete package price to PPL' pre-pay sum (perhaps even including free re-tests if necessary) then people are likely to feel; "As long as the school doesn't suddenly shut down, I can pre-calculate the end price of getting my license." Hence, then the only (!) risk they take is that of the school going bust, but otherwise feel comfortable with knowing a fixed-sum cost to license.
2) If instead they embark on a 'pay-as-you-go' scheme, I think alot of people feel they might take the risk of the school insisting on lots of extra training towards the end, needed or not. Basically the old "yeah mate, you're almost ready but we feel that you should take a few more hours (extra money) before we book you for the final test". Scary situation...
Again, I am happy to be wrong, please tell me if you see other posibilities. But from the looks of it; escrow-accounts, and other 'not-everything-in-advance' solutions only seem to protect us if the whole school goes bust, it doesn't protect against the costs growing (but could even cause them to!) during training. Am I right here?
Naturally, the best solution would probably be to get a total-price agreed and then still only pay smaller amounts in advance, say; 33,33,34 (%) or so just before starting each new week. Not sure if this is possible, never heard of anyone being able to do it for a PPL.
Again, thanks for a great Forum and have a nice weekend!
/GO
I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that we generally understand and agree with you. Yet so many people keep bringing up the question over and over again. The (otherwise brilliant) permanent training-advisory thread already has information about the "why", but not the "how" and I think this is where the problem lies: How would an alternative pay-plan be organised? How does escrow-accounts work, how to agree total-price but still pay in chunks, etc. etc.
Also: -Why I think this is causing so much dilemma for so many people:
1) If there is a 'complete package price to PPL' pre-pay sum (perhaps even including free re-tests if necessary) then people are likely to feel; "As long as the school doesn't suddenly shut down, I can pre-calculate the end price of getting my license." Hence, then the only (!) risk they take is that of the school going bust, but otherwise feel comfortable with knowing a fixed-sum cost to license.
2) If instead they embark on a 'pay-as-you-go' scheme, I think alot of people feel they might take the risk of the school insisting on lots of extra training towards the end, needed or not. Basically the old "yeah mate, you're almost ready but we feel that you should take a few more hours (extra money) before we book you for the final test". Scary situation...
Again, I am happy to be wrong, please tell me if you see other posibilities. But from the looks of it; escrow-accounts, and other 'not-everything-in-advance' solutions only seem to protect us if the whole school goes bust, it doesn't protect against the costs growing (but could even cause them to!) during training. Am I right here?
Naturally, the best solution would probably be to get a total-price agreed and then still only pay smaller amounts in advance, say; 33,33,34 (%) or so just before starting each new week. Not sure if this is possible, never heard of anyone being able to do it for a PPL.
Again, thanks for a great Forum and have a nice weekend!
/GO
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Well Just an opinion but I doubt that OFT will go bust as cabair has shares in it, and cabair is a very big company. But anyway there are chances that they will go bust, but hopefully my left over $5000 there for my CPL will still be safe when I go back haha.
Brian304
Brian304
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ATPL Ground School at OFT
Anyone starting the ATPL Residential Ground School at OFT in December?
Anyone around from the October class? (did it start at all?) What are your impressions? Would like to hear from you.
Anyone around from the October class? (did it start at all?) What are your impressions? Would like to hear from you.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: between the books
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CPL/IR
I have a JAA PPL, and I'm intending to go to OFT for JAA Multi-Engine CPL.
Does anyone recommend me to do the FAA IR with OFT, then convert it with Cabair to JAA IR. I have info that it is cheaper like that.
Does anyone recommend me to do the FAA IR with OFT, then convert it with Cabair to JAA IR. I have info that it is cheaper like that.
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Jaa Training/ Jaa Schools Us
Hi, Im spanish guy desperate triying to find a school in US wich provide JAA training or courses for international students up to 1000h flying time, without do any conversion. Thats a very important point. As i dont live in the US is very difficult to choose the proper schoold cos I have no idea how they are.. I just can see the webs and nothing else. So could anyone give me a hand? Please anyone knows any? any recommendation or suggestion? I´ve been looking around European Fligth Training and Orlando Fligth Training. This both offer 1500h JAA courses. Someone who has been training in any of those?
Thank you very much guys.
PS: I will appreciate any honest opinion.
Thank you very much guys.
PS: I will appreciate any honest opinion.
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I have info that it is cheaper like that
There are no full JAA IR courses in the US.
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So what would you recommend for IR? Doing it in the UK in the first place, or is it better in Spain, cost-wise?
Many thanks.
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Orlando Flight Training
I see many threads on this forum asking about flight training in Florida. As a flight instructor that used to be employed by them I think I could share a fair evalutaion.
All the school cares about is your money. That is the bottom line and from that stems a majority of other problems. There are some things that they advertise to you which you have to look at carefully. If you look at the breakdown of required times for a certificate or rating (specifically FAA), they advertise 10 hours of solo time in a simulator for the instrument training and 20 hours of solo time in a FRASCA 142 simulator. YOU CANNOT LOG SOLO TIME IN A SIMULATOR. You cannot log any time in a flight training device unless an instructor is there. A flight training device does not even count toward TOTAL time. It only counts towards a certificate or rating.
There have been many instances of an airplanes airworthiness being questionable. When an airplane has a discrepancy, you write it down on a discrepancy logbook. The airplane cannot be flown until the discrepancy has been resolved. The school, in an effort to keep the airplane flying throughout the day, would allow the mechanics to make an entry on the discrepancy log that "No Defects" were noted. This would place the aircraft back in service "ON PAPER". The problem hadn't been fixed though. The next student to fly the airplane would see the same problem. This is highly unlawful and more importantly, NOT SAFE!!
One other thing to beware of is the cost for certain items. If you look on the webpage for the cost of the medical exam they have it listed as $100.00 dollars. In on instance it is listed as costing $400.00 dollars. The cost of the higest Class of a US medical (First Class) only costs about $70.00 at the most. The school pockets the rest of the money without justification. Call some FAA examiners to get some prices and you'll see what I mean. There was a time when a group of university students came for their PPL's. The owner of the flight school picked them up from the airport and brought them to the school. It would have been nice of him to do so if he hadn't charged each of the 5 students almost $80.00 for the ride. It would have cost less to take a cab. He pocketed almost $400.00 dollars!
I've said all that to say this....if you choose to go to OFT to do your flight training, KEEP AN EYE ON YOUR FINANCIAL ACCOUNT AND JUSTIFY EVERY DOLLAR SPENT!! If it seems unreasonable then remember, there is always a cheaper alternative. ALSO KEEP AN EYE ON THE AIRWORTHINESS OF YOUR AIRPLANE. Unfortunately for most of you, you have no idea what is required by law to be airworthy. If you are unsure, ask a flight instructor, or better yet call the Flight Standards District Office (FAA). Make sure all the required inspections and maintenance items have been taken care of before you go flying and put a chain on your wallet. Most of all, enjoy yourself while you are learning to fly.
All the school cares about is your money. That is the bottom line and from that stems a majority of other problems. There are some things that they advertise to you which you have to look at carefully. If you look at the breakdown of required times for a certificate or rating (specifically FAA), they advertise 10 hours of solo time in a simulator for the instrument training and 20 hours of solo time in a FRASCA 142 simulator. YOU CANNOT LOG SOLO TIME IN A SIMULATOR. You cannot log any time in a flight training device unless an instructor is there. A flight training device does not even count toward TOTAL time. It only counts towards a certificate or rating.
There have been many instances of an airplanes airworthiness being questionable. When an airplane has a discrepancy, you write it down on a discrepancy logbook. The airplane cannot be flown until the discrepancy has been resolved. The school, in an effort to keep the airplane flying throughout the day, would allow the mechanics to make an entry on the discrepancy log that "No Defects" were noted. This would place the aircraft back in service "ON PAPER". The problem hadn't been fixed though. The next student to fly the airplane would see the same problem. This is highly unlawful and more importantly, NOT SAFE!!
One other thing to beware of is the cost for certain items. If you look on the webpage for the cost of the medical exam they have it listed as $100.00 dollars. In on instance it is listed as costing $400.00 dollars. The cost of the higest Class of a US medical (First Class) only costs about $70.00 at the most. The school pockets the rest of the money without justification. Call some FAA examiners to get some prices and you'll see what I mean. There was a time when a group of university students came for their PPL's. The owner of the flight school picked them up from the airport and brought them to the school. It would have been nice of him to do so if he hadn't charged each of the 5 students almost $80.00 for the ride. It would have cost less to take a cab. He pocketed almost $400.00 dollars!
I've said all that to say this....if you choose to go to OFT to do your flight training, KEEP AN EYE ON YOUR FINANCIAL ACCOUNT AND JUSTIFY EVERY DOLLAR SPENT!! If it seems unreasonable then remember, there is always a cheaper alternative. ALSO KEEP AN EYE ON THE AIRWORTHINESS OF YOUR AIRPLANE. Unfortunately for most of you, you have no idea what is required by law to be airworthy. If you are unsure, ask a flight instructor, or better yet call the Flight Standards District Office (FAA). Make sure all the required inspections and maintenance items have been taken care of before you go flying and put a chain on your wallet. Most of all, enjoy yourself while you are learning to fly.